Dragoon JSE (Level 68-70 Pieces) Adjustments?

[Ziero]

Re: Dragoon JSE (Level 68-70 Pieces) Adjustments?

Barone body gear is like 2-3 mil.
Hydra mail body gear is more.
Pretty pricey eh?

Yeah, no

http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=14055&sid=23&stack=0
http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=14448&sid=23&stack=0
http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=15209&sid=23&stack=0
http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=15345&sid=23&stack=0
http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=15406&sid=23&stack=0

In total the War JSE on my server can easily top 40 million for the whole set. And it doesn't even look that good. 2-3 mil isn't a lot for endgame gear, especially JSE.

[LadyKiKi]

Re: Dragoon JSE (Level 68-70 Pieces) Adjustments?

+8 Acc to somewhat force people to use it to TP in ... won't be so bad eh? Considering how other jobs are more or less generically forced to wear Haubergeon/Scorpion Harness at sometime or another. Like a reliable Acc piece really.

WAR JSE ... I just noticed the nice amount of HP the armor gives ... but why would they need that? They got the God's set of armor and even Adaman Hauberk (ok not exactly easy to get)/pieces ... WAR has many many more useful/practical armor choices than a DRG.

For my suggested stats earlier, it's to really match JSE standards and give the wyvern a little more edge by giving it protection bonuses and some physical bonuses to make it more useful. Double Attack for the occasional double damage, coupling it with Zanshin so it might attack again if it misses. Attack Bonus to make it hit slightly harder.

Defense Bonus or Magic Defence Bonus won't really do much (i.e. when has a WAR's Defense Bonus (as a subjob) helped you(much)?), it's really just there as a psychological effect.

This JSE looks so good... it is a waste not to have practical stats in it~

*I have never seen anyone wear that JSE in game before*

Exactly.

For an idea mentioned earlier about having wyvern out that gives the DRG bonuses ... maybe (all latent effects activate with wyvern out):

Mask:
VIT+3 Attack+5
Latent Effect: Jump: Additional Effect: Dispel

Body:
Accuracy+5 STR+4
Latent Effect: Attack +15

Hands
Accuracy+5 STR+3
Latent Effect: Physical Damage: Ice Spikes Effect

Legs:
DEX+4 AGI+4
Latent Effect: Ancient Circle: Magic Defense Bonus

Feet
Attack+5 Accuracy+8
Latent Effect: High Jump: Increases Critical Hit Rate

There ... just some stuff I pulled off my head. From the set you can an additional dispeller, an attack bonuses, a defense bonuses, a group effect defense (give us somewhat of a role in some battles?) and a chance for High Jump to deal more damage. Again I hope it's not too "cheap" (or unfair in other terms) and not that demanding where it will throw everything to be unbalanced.

[seq]

Re: Dragoon JSE (Level 68-70 Pieces) Adjustments?

hopefuly it'll get an update, the same as what they did to Gavial gear...

[Vyuru]

Re: Dragoon JSE (Level 68-70 Pieces) Adjustments?

>.> I wish to retract my earlier statement about what the gavial armor looks like after looking at in the model viewer. I dunno what I was thinking when I said that /blush

Legs:
DEX+4 AGI+4
Latent Effect: Ancient Circle: Magic Defense Bonus

I didn't even think of a Ancient Circle latent effect, but I have a question since I haven't fought many wyverns. Do either HNM or normal wyverns/dragons/wyrms use magic? And what about having a big -breath attack latent instead like what the armor currently offers? For the drg JSE it just seems that -breath attack would be more natural. Either that or a really enhanced dragon killer effect.

Of course why we have dragon killer when we're dragoons and not the dragon killers is another topic alltogether.

Hmm, dispel would be nice, but I think it would be a bit over powered. In all of your parties, you will have at least one mage, and in standard parties you normally have 3 mages, or 2 and one brd/cor. Any one of those mages can sub rdm if the party really needs dispel.

I think Stun might be fun to have as an added effect. All the drg beastmen have it with their jumps, although their jumps are more like WS I think. If the latent effects both jump and high jump, stun should have say a 50%ish chance of landing since we get two jumps. If it only effects jump, maybe make it a 70%ish chance.

What about a -enmity latent? It fits in with our jumps, and it would let us deal more damage more freely. And at least for TP burn parties it will help with not subbing ninja and having utsusemi.

[LadyKiKi]

Re: Dragoon JSE (Level 68-70 Pieces) Adjustments?

Tiamat casts Firaga 3 and Fire 4

Likewise, Jormungand casts Blizzaga 3

Bahamut uses Blood Pacts ... Megaflare/Teraflare ... Magic attacks, sorta ...

Another latent effect would be Breath Damage Taken -25% (or a bit higher?) for Ancient Circle. However, it's put on the leg slot on purpose so you can't macro in the AF legs and this ... (or maybe the feet and legs' latent should be swapped around?)

Ancient Circle produces emnity by default, I normally use it at times to pull that little bit of hate of my wyvern when soloing.

[Lmnop]

Re: Dragoon JSE (Level 68-70 Pieces) Adjustments?

I've seen a lot of people suggest add'l effect Stun to Jump over the years, and I'm still glad they haven't done it. It'd be great and all, but I'm still coping with BLU dethroning DRK as Stun-king... I think Stun is a little overdone at this point. Dispel would be interesting, but not likely, not entirely useful, and may step on others' toes. Especially with Corsairs getting their once/minute Dispel, how many Dispels can we throw into the fray? (currently @2 reliable and 2 tied to 1min timers).

I think at this point, the best thing they could do with JSE would be to leave the stats exactly as they are, and then start adding small bonuses. OR they could make a whole new set of drg JSE (whms have 2 JSEs, afterall) that each piece is crafted with Dragon stuff + Gavial stuff. :3

so yeah... wyvern: occasionally nullifies magic damage taken. Even people with the ring that gives PCs that trait don't seem to wear it much... don't see how it'd be overpowered for DRG.

[DakAttack]

Re: Dragoon JSE (Level 68-70 Pieces) Adjustments?

If anything Jump would make more sense having an armor break effect. I believe that's something Lancers could do in FFT.

Anyways, the armor is pretty useless, but there's already much more out there in the way of party gear. Maybe they can turn it towards soloing with a few party stats. It could enhance the speed, and potency of healing breaths.

[Karinya]

Re: Dragoon JSE (Level 68-70 Pieces) Adjustments?

+8 Acc to somewhat force people to use it to TP in ... won't be so bad eh? Considering how other jobs are more or less generically forced to wear Haubergeon/Scorpion Harness at sometime or another. Like a reliable Acc piece really.

Yeah, but it blows away Amir without even counting the wyvern bonuses, which I don't think is right for a crafted piece. Especially if you're considering this as adjustments to the existing (cheap) set and not some new set that will be made out of unobtanium.

Anyway, DRG already has plenty of reliable acc pieces... life/potent belt, o-hat, SH/Pahluwan, chiv chain, amir boots, galliard trousers/pahluwan seraweels, the same rings everyone else uses, Diabolos and assault earrings - that's over +60 acc already, +70 when you add in the trait. Without food. I doubt you will very often even need that much, let alone more than that.

WAR JSE ... I just noticed the nice amount of HP the armor gives ... but why would they need that? They got the God's set of armor and even Adaman Hauberk (ok not exactly easy to get)/pieces ... WAR has many many more useful/practical armor choices than a DRG.

I don't know about that. The thick and e.abj. sets are nice, no doubt, but on the other hand they can't wear Homam and Pahluwan, both of which have some really awesome pieces. Much of the Unicorn set isn't that good for DD either.

DRG is the ONLY job that can wear both of the melee Assault sets and mix and match them. So if you want more gear options as a DRG, and you don't have sea (or don't want to wait for Omega to drop the right body parts), assault assault assault. Anyone with TAU can do assaults on basically any schedule they want, all it takes is persistence.

Certainly DRG had few and weak gear choices in RoZ, but with the addition of homam, barone, pahluwan, amir and hydra, I don't think it's true anymore (even though hydra isn't all that useful, all of the other four have pieces ranging from useful to excellent).

[Vyuru]

Re: Dragoon JSE (Level 68-70 Pieces) Adjustments?

I've seen a lot of people suggest add'l effect Stun to Jump over the years, and I'm still glad they haven't done it. It'd be great and all, but I'm still coping with BLU dethroning DRK as Stun-king...

Well, to be honest I don't know much about how Blue Mage's stun spells work, or how many they have so I can't really comment on the Blu vs Drk stun. But I will say it does sound like Stun may not be that great of an addition if Blue mages can do it well, especially since there are a goodly amount of blue mages these days.

My thought on it though, not taking blue mages into consideration, is that I just don't see that many dark knights using their mp at all. The only time I MIGHT see a stun get tossed out is if the goblin is about to do a bomb toss, and in that case I would rather risk that it was a suicide bomb toss and let the goblin do it. There are some drks who use their mp effectivly, but I have not seen that many of them. Most of the stuns that I see are actually used by black mages and are normally used on self buff moves like Cocoon, Poison breath, magical spells, etc. While potentially self killing moves like Bomb Toss are left unstunned unless it might actually kill the party.

And I will say that I really love partying with dark knights, and I party with dark knights whenever I can, so this is not a statement made based on seeing two or three dark knights, this is based on partying with alot of dark knights, after they got stun of course, and not pre stun levels.

So from a strictly blm and drk stun point of view, I think that stun would be a nice added effect to our jumps. But if it is the case that blue mages are now taking up the stun role in parties, and if they are really that much better at it than dark knights are, I see no need for it then.

OR they could make a whole new set of drg JSE

That wouldn't be bad, except that this JSE looks so damn sexy ; ;

If anything Jump would make more sense having an armor break effect. I believe that's something Lancers could do in FFT.

I think that the Knights had the armor/weapon/stat break attacks. I think Lancers only got jump, and they could increase the range of jump, they could get Ignore Height (gotta love it :D) and a few other odds and ends that I can't remember right now. I think they could get protection against instant death attacks/spells.

Yeah, but it blows away Amir without even counting the wyvern bonuses, which I don't think is right for a crafted piece. Especially if you're considering this as adjustments to the existing (cheap) set and not some new set that will be made out of unobtanium.

Well, in general I think that crafted armor SHOULD be better than quested armor, with the exceptions of say, god, relic, and AF+1 armor. Crafted armor shouldn't be so much better that it puts quested armor to shame, but I think it should be good, while quested armor shouldn't be as good, but definatly comparable. Just like say, the Scorpion Harness vs Assault Jerkin. Both are really good, and from a strictly +acc perspective you would say that the Assault Jerkin isn't as good, but that +18att sure grabs the attention, and +3acc isn't too shabby either.

unobtanium

I had to laugh there :D

Anyway, DRG already has plenty of reliable acc pieces...

We do.... But for most of the game our other gear can't really compare. Take the Peti armor for instance compared to the Royal Knight set or the Jawshan set. War/drk/sam really get some good boosts from those sets. I'm not really considering monks here, they just outdamage everyone, but I will say that while their gear is good, it does look like it is rather limited, so a wider variety of affordable monk gear might be nice.

But back to what I was saying, war/drk/sam get some really good armor sets, we can all wear the same +acc gear, and while dragoons get a +acc bonus, but it seems to me that it's not enough of one to let us swap out enough +acc gear for +DD gear to make a noticable difference at least in mid level, I haven't reached 75 yet so I can't speak for that level range. So it feels to me that we still need to wear a comparable amount of +acc gear as the other jobs, and for a long time our DD armor is not that comparable to what the other jobs get, so I feel that I am struggling to keep up with the other DD jobs in party settings.

Although after saying that, I do have to pause to think and take a step back and say that in the few parties I have been in where someone had kept track of everyone's damage, once my wyvern's damage was included I am right up there with the really highly damaging jobs. Agaisn't mobs weak to piercing weapons I normally outdamage everyone, not including my wyvern's damage, and I don't have the best of gear either. So do we need gear comparable to other jobs? I would really have to say no, heck even I forget about my wyvern's damage at times and so I feel that I may not be pulling my weight in parties at times, and when you include her damage with mine, the two of us are right up there with those Haubergeon/all gear+1 war/nins, they might still have done more damage, but we're still close in total damage.

Certainly DRG had few and weak gear choices in RoZ, but with the addition of homam, barone, pahluwan, amir and hydra, I don't think it's true anymore

Agreed, with the new armor from ToAU, I am MORE than happy with the current selection of mid to end game gear, which I felt that dragoon was lacking in. I LOVE my Jaridah Peti, and I have such wide and varied choices of endgame gear that I am going to be busy picking what gear setup I want for quite some time. And of course whatever gear I pick will have to stylishly match, one of my biggest pet peeves about the Ohat

However I think LadyKiKi was specifically addressing the lack of a good piece of JSE for dragoons. And while I don't know what all the other jobs get, I do know that at least some of them get some totally cool pieces of JSE. And it seems that if they don't have good JSE, such as the Unicorn set for DDing warriors, and the Plastron set's usefulness is debatable with all the -def on it, they at least get access to all of the really good god armor and other heavy armor.


Something to counter what I just said up there though is that with the new changes to samurai, we can get a constant +10% haste, opening up some of the Hecatomb pieces for use in exp parties. If the mage keeps use hasted, then we can have +25% haste, and we can use the Hecatomb body and pants for a grand total of +10acc, +12str, +20att, and 2%slow. Or you could pick any combination of the Hecatomb armor pieces for a ton of +str/dex/att with only a marginal slow effect. A swift/speed belt would allow you to toss in another piece of Hecatomb gear for little to no slow penalty, and would allow you to wear the full set of Hecatomb armor for as little as 12% slow.

All of that +str/dex/att/acc would just be huge IMO. Someone might do this and find out that it really isn't that much better than a normal and much cheaper/easier to obtain set of armor, but even so that is pretty impressive. All of that +dex would also factor into slightly more critical hits, and more accuracy as well since 2dex = 1 acc.

[eticket109]

Re: Dragoon JSE (Level 68-70 Pieces) Adjustments?

I've seen a lot of people suggest add'l effect Stun to Jump over the years, and I'm still glad they haven't done it.

High Jump has a stun effect while Spirit Surge is active. >.>

[Lmnop]

Re: Dragoon JSE (Level 68-70 Pieces) Adjustments?

High Jump has a stun effect while Spirit Surge is active. >.>

I wasn't sure whether or not that was the effect. I was thinking I read somewhere that that was the case, but then there isn't, then I pointed out:

High Jump causes an enemy’s TP to be reduced by a percentage proportionate to the amount of damage inflicted.

not an ad for cheap legal drugs!

If it is the case, then my argument becomes one that I'm fine with Drg stunning once/2hours. They're never going to let you stun every jump or every high jump.

------

On what Vyuru said above (I'm too lazy to quote so here's hoping I can remember what I wanted to comment on).

Heca's cool (can't forget that DEX has a modifier on Penta Thrust) but I think if you're @25%+ Haste, that's it's own advantage. If you hit a mob for 120/swing (I have no idea how much you hit for on merit mobs) normally, will all that heca make you hit for more than 240 extra damage/minute? Because you'd be losing right around 2 attacks/round (and the tp to go along with it). It's a hard matter to figure, for sure. But to each their own.

Amir isn't just "quested" though, it's earned with a whomping 20000 Assault Points. That kind of thing can't be replaced by an easily crafted piece of armor, unless said armor is made of "unobtanium." <---- btw, I cracked up at that and started tracking down family members to tell it to.

I do think that it'd be nice if DRGs got a 2nd acc bonus trait at say... 60 or 65. Like you said, the acc bonus is nice, but you still gear yourself like other DDs regardless. But then, I feel level 70 rolls around and everyone should start subbing SAM so you shouldn't need 10 more acc. :3

Get one of those dragon skull mask thingies. They look cool and WARs can't wear them. Even if you wear an O-hat most of the time, you can equip swap one of those on just to make us WARs cry because we don't have 'em.

Lastly, I agree with Dak that if they revamp this JSE, the best direction possible would be solo-oriented. Perhaps even an Ethereal Earring-esque trait or some such. For most JSEs, there's really only one "ideal" piece of equip. For instance: Unicorn is mostly useless, but everyone wants the booties. Lots of the SAM JSE is good, but to the people with Haub+1s, the only piece that seems to be worn is feet (Amir may have changed that, even). DRK has a few good pieces, but the only one that has a statistical edge over other gear options is the legs (Dusk Trousers and then some). I'm not a magey type, but I never see them in more than 1-2 pieces of their JSE at a time either. My point is -- the JSE would have to be mostly useless still.

[Vyuru]

Re: Dragoon JSE (Level 68-70 Pieces) Adjustments?

Haste, that's it's own advantage. If you hit a mob for 120/swing (I have no idea how much you hit for on merit mobs) normally, will all that heca make you hit for more than 240 extra damage/minute? Because you'd be losing right around 2 attacks/round (and the tp to go along with it). It's a hard matter to figure, for sure. But to each their own.

Agreed, I just don't know how effective it would be, I was just pointing out that the /sam has made some gear more viable for exp settings. It is nice that the Hecatomb armor has become a bit more visable to use in exp parties and is not solely a WS swap gear set anymore.

Myself personally, I think I would favor the AF+1, perhaps mixed with some relic gear (mostly just the helm), good stat boosts to me and my wyvern and it has some nice job ability boosts. Actually yeah, I think I would go with Relic+1 helm and AF+1 for the rest. I like gear that enhances both job abilities and stats.

Get one of those dragon skull mask thingies.

Either that or my Relic helm :D Of course an Ace's helm would be nice, but dynamis gear might be more obtainable for me rather than HNM gear. We shall see though.

I do think that it'd be nice if DRGs got a 2nd acc bonus trait at say... 60 or 65. Like you said, the acc bonus is nice, but you still gear yourself like other DDs regardless. But then, I feel level 70 rolls around and everyone should start subbing SAM so you shouldn't need 10 more acc. :3

I do tend to agree with you here. It would be nice to have another +acc trait at about lvl 60 since this is the time other DD seem to get some serious +stat gear and WS. However in certain areas, Bibiki bay and ToAU zones, the difference between the jobs isn't as great since the mobs are pretty easy and not too buff/evasion crazy like pugils, crabs, raptors and the like can be.

They're never going to let you stun every jump or every high jump.

Oh gosh no, I wouldn't want that. Just the possibility of it happening would be good enough for me. It have to be a low possibility though IMO.

You know, I'd just be happy if we got some trait or piece of gear (such as JSE) that increased our wyvern's breath attacks, something other than just our relic helm, because that is really a hard to obtain piece of gear. My reasoning is that roughly every 20 levels we get a boost to healing breath, so why not one to our wyvern's offensive breath?

We could get a roundabout boost to our Healing breaths by getting more +wyvern gear, but if I remember right you'd need alot of +wyvern hp to raise HB even by say 50hp. So that might not be the best way to go.

IMO we get some really good pieces of gear that are just hard to obtain, mostly relic and AF+1.

The gear from assaults is very nice as well, and IMO is pretty reasonable to obtain. The hardest part I have is getting a static together to do the assaults with.

[Lmnop]

Re: Dragoon JSE (Level 68-70 Pieces) Adjustments?

yeah I have like 7k Assault Points when I add up all my Staging Points together... >.> It takes some dedication and time (that I don't have).

Overall though, I think Assaults are the best designed aspect of the game atm. To that end, I don't want their gear to be marginalized (at least too much).

[eticket109]

Re: Dragoon JSE (Level 68-70 Pieces) Adjustments?

I need to find info on Spirit Surge in the update notes or something. lol

Alla and FFXIWiki both say the exact same thing for High Jump. Like you said though, I remember reading the Stun thing. I'm sure I've seen the Stun effect wear on mobs I High Jump'ed too.

[raidenn]

Re: Dragoon JSE (Level 68-70 Pieces) Adjustments?

Does it really come in black? I see the same one worn by NPCs for Ballista. It's in red.