i know some RMTs in my server, how do i do?

[Bless]

Q:what should i(we) do? i don't wanna see them again!

[Icemage]

Re: i know some RMTs in my server, how do i do?

If they're not bothering you, hindering you, or visibly breaking the terms of service, then ignore them and move on (since you can't prove it).

If you do see them do something weird (like teleport from one side of a zone to another or run around at faster than normally possible speed for extended periods of time), then report them to a GM.


Icemage

[Mini Neruto]

Re: i know some RMTs in my server, how do i do?

If they're not bothering you, hindering you, or visibly breaking the terms of service, then ignore them and move on (since you can't prove it).
If you do see them do something weird (like teleport from one side of a zone to another or run around at faster than normally possible speed for extended periods of time), then report them to a GM.
Icemage

Right, but not all RMT's hack. Some just soley sell money. Unfortunatly you cant prove that IN GAME. You have to catch them doing something out of game to actually acuse them of being an "RMT". Hope that helps.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: i know some RMTs in my server, how do i do?

You have to catch them doing something out of game to actually acuse them of being an "RMT". Hope that helps.

Um... How will S-E/GM's handle information from "out of the game"? I mean, can they even believe it? "I saw this posted on Allakhazam! XXXX must be an gillseller!"

Anyway, I'm unconvinced that the players are in position to spot proofs of RMT--at least, nothing that S-E can consider proof as such.

As far as I'm concerned, the most important evidence in proving RMT is to show a large net outflow of gil from an account w/out substanial goods added to the characters on the account, or a large outflow of high-price/high-demand items w/out corresponding net accumulation of gil in the account's character. That kind of monitoring is not something the normal players can do; we cannot track any single character, much less an account and all its characters.

Let me repeat that; to determine RMT activity, one has to track accounts, and track multiple accounts, not just single characters. Track gil intake/outflow of the accounts. Track items intake/outflow of the accounts. Over time.

No player can do that. At least, no player should be able to do that.

At best, we players can only find proofs for dumb cheaters (who may happen to be RMT's). And, even if we find proof, we can't even hand that to GM's directly; GM's are not allowed to accept our words at face value--they have to verify what we tell them by other means. All we can do is to tell GM's where to look for the evidence.

It doesn't mean we can't help them catch cheaters, though.

When it comes down to it, catching cheaters is all about documentation--logs, on servers, to be precise. (That means in-game, definitely not outside of game.)

We know S-E has banned position hacks users, so they must log timestamped position/velocity info. We know from their support policy that they investigate claims of harrasement from chat logs, so everyone's chats are logged. We also know they log auction house activities, because... well, they share their logs with us--as in, acution house history. Recently, they added item recovery service, so they also log player's inventory changes. But, how long do they keep these logs?

From changes to GM policies announced recently (Dec.12, 2006):

If you delay for more than a week, we will become unable to confirm the item loss and restore your item.

That tells me they keep logs for a week; at least when it comes to logs regarding items. It means, any suspecious pattern of activities you wish to report must be recognizable over a one-week period. Less in reality, actually, since the GM's/S.T.F.U. people need time to go over the logs.

For example, if you see in one week period someone selling 15 copies of a magic scroll in Jeuno AH, and this scroll can only be obtained from some non-repeatable quest that requires fair amount of fame and access to dangerous zones, you can call GM. Tell the GM who it is, and which items, and a brief description on why legitimate players cannot possibly obtain/sell that many copies in short amount of time.

That tells the GM's which player, what (item) to search for, and where (e.g. AH logs). That makes the investigation easy and fast for them, and there may a decent chance they may actually do it.

Of course, there's no guarrentee that person you found is an RMT--just 97% positive s/he used third-party tools.

So, do report stupid cheaters, when you know there's stuff in the logs to prove they've cheated. Anyone able to run across 5 zones in 1 minute and get caught doing it deserves some quality time with GM's. Anyone able to warp right in-front of some NM time after time to provoke it deserves much the same.

However, don't get your hopes up in general with accusations like "XXXX is selling Rare/Ex sky items so must be RMT". Like I explained earlier, proving RMT requires extensive monitoring over time. It's heck of a lot of work, and not meant for time-crunched GM's to do. Plus, GM's already know players can't prove RMT activies--so they likely just shrug off calls like "I found RMT exp'ing".

Stick to reporting cheaters, and forget about RMT. -_-; Short of admitting RMT activity in chat logs, there's really not much GM's can do about RMT's, and there's nothing players like us can prove.

[eticket109]

Re: i know some RMTs in my server, how do i do?

Ok... to get past the whole are they RMT debate... there is a simple answer to the OPs question, and it has nothing to do with GMs.

If you suspect someone on your server of being involved in RMT and want to report them, then log out of the game and go back into POL. Look for the Suggestions & Feedback link and fill out something there.

Unless a GM sees a player hacking or warping, they can do nothing about them. However, the Feedback reports get directed to the Special Task Force who can look up the accounts and investigate.

It isn't the best solution, but it really is the only one. As much as we would like every GM to ban suspected RMT right on the spot, there is no realistic way that they can do that. Calling a GM about RMT will only frustrate the player making the call and backlog the GM call queue.

[Ameroth]

Re: i know some RMTs in my server, how do i do?

Lol I saw some (presumably) RMT exping in Qufim the other day. I told them they were naughty and needed to stop selling gil. One of them told me no. Ha!

Though I know (99.9% sure) that they were RMT, and they even sorta psuedo-admitted to me, that they were RMT, I can't 100% prove it. Therefore I did nothing more than watch as they got screwed over by a banshee and then refused to raise them.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: i know some RMTs in my server, how do i do?

I told them they were naughty and needed to stop selling gil. One of them told me no. Ha!

Have you stopped beating your wife?

[Ameroth]

Re: i know some RMTs in my server, how do i do?






....

I don't get it.

[Mini Neruto]

Re: i know some RMTs in my server, how do i do?

Um... How will S-E/GM's handle information from "out of the game"? I mean, can they even believe it? "I saw this posted on Allakhazam! XXXX must be an gillseller!"

Anyway, I'm unconvinced that the players are in position to spot proofs of RMT--at least, nothing that S-E can consider proof as such.

As far as I'm concerned, the most important evidence in proving RMT is to show a large net outflow of gil from an account w/out substanial goods added to the characters on the account, or a large outflow of high-price/high-demand items w/out corresponding net accumulation of gil in the account's character. That kind of monitoring is not something the normal players can do; we cannot track any single character, much less an account and all its characters.

Let me repeat that; to determine RMT activity, one has to track accounts, and track multiple accounts, not just single characters. Track gil intake/outflow of the accounts. Track items intake/outflow of the accounts. Over time.

No player can do that. At least, no player should be able to do that.

At best, we players can only find proofs for dumb cheaters (who may happen to be RMT's). And, even if we find proof, we can't even hand that to GM's directly; GM's are not allowed to accept our words at face value--they have to verify what we tell them by other means. All we can do is to tell GM's where to look for the evidence.

It doesn't mean we can't help them catch cheaters, though.

When it comes down to it, catching cheaters is all about documentation--logs, on servers, to be precise. (That means in-game, definitely not outside of game.)

We know S-E has banned position hacks users, so they must log timestamped position/velocity info. We know from their support policy that they investigate claims of harrasement from chat logs, so everyone's chats are logged. We also know they log auction house activities, because... well, they share their logs with us--as in, acution house history. Recently, they added item recovery service, so they also log player's inventory changes. But, how long do they keep these logs?

From changes to GM policies announced recently (Dec.12, 2006):

That tells me they keep logs for a week; at least when it comes to logs regarding items. It means, any suspecious pattern of activities you wish to report must be recognizable over a one-week period. Less in reality, actually, since the GM's/S.T.F.U. people need time to go over the logs.

For example, if you see in one week period someone selling 15 copies of a magic scroll in Jeuno AH, and this scroll can only be obtained from some non-repeatable quest that requires fair amount of fame and access to dangerous zones, you can call GM. Tell the GM who it is, and which items, and a brief description on why legitimate players cannot possibly obtain/sell that many copies in short amount of time.

That tells the GM's which player, what (item) to search for, and where (e.g. AH logs). That makes the investigation easy and fast for them, and there may a decent chance they may actually do it.

Of course, there's no guarrentee that person you found is an RMT--just 97% positive s/he used third-party tools.

So, do report stupid cheaters, when you know there's stuff in the logs to prove they've cheated. Anyone able to run across 5 zones in 1 minute and get caught doing it deserves some quality time with GM's. Anyone able to warp right in-front of some NM time after time to provoke it deserves much the same.

However, don't get your hopes up in general with accusations like "XXXX is selling Rare/Ex sky items so must be RMT". Like I explained earlier, proving RMT requires extensive monitoring over time. It's heck of a lot of work, and not meant for time-crunched GM's to do. Plus, GM's already know players can't prove RMT activies--so they likely just shrug off calls like "I found RMT exp'ing".

Stick to reporting cheaters, and forget about RMT. -_-; Short of admitting RMT activity in chat logs, there's really not much GM's can do about RMT's, and there's nothing players like us can prove.

Ebay. People have accounts, accounts are connected to names, names are connected to ffxi accounts and so on. Think!

[Taskmage]

Re: i know some RMTs in my server, how do i do?

....
I don't get it.

"Have you stopped beating your wife?" is a classic example of a loaded question, one which makes assumptions that make it impossible to answer succinctly in english without admitting to the implied accusation. If you answer yes, that means you've beaten your wife. If you answer no, that means you've beaten your wife and intend to continue doing so.

Similarly, saying "You should stop selling gil," is a statement that one cannot respond to in agreement or disagreement without incriminating themselves of selling gil. Yes would mean they sell gil but recognize they should stop, no would mean they sell gil and refuse to stop. Essentially, you trapped them.

To answer properly, one would either have to backtrack and defuse the logical basis of the question, which takes a couple logical steps and a better than minimal mastery of the english language, or would have to be aware of yes and no's obscure cousin mu, none of which the players in question were probably capable of.

Thus, you proved nothing other than that the players in question were likely poor at english.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: i know some RMTs in my server, how do i do?

Ebay. People have accounts, accounts are connected to names, names are connected to ffxi accounts and so on. Think!

I'll conceed that you can catch small-time fools who sell gils under their own name this way, if you can get the name from eBay and the name matches. (Ex: Daddy bought FFXI for kid, and kid turns 18, then sells account--name mismatch!)

Then again, I just searched eBay for "Fanal Fantasy XI gil". The result? All but one of the matching return that's not selling a book or guide turned out to be from some companies, not individuals. Good luck matching these companies' eBay contact name s to any POL account owner.

I didn't think of every possibility--but you didn't check the practicality of your idea, either. =/ (I'd love someone to prove me wrong and find ways us normal users can prove someone is an RMT to S-E.)

[Ziero]

Re: i know some RMTs in my server, how do i do?

You can't prove anything.

Even if you did the much suggested 'buy gil then report the one who gave it to you' idea people repeatedly say SE should do, all you'd end up doing would be banning a delivery Mule. One who would probably be deleted after they're done for the day anyway. Only thing *we* as a community can do is discourage *buying* of gil and report suspicious activites that bend or break the parameters of the game such as flee tooling and pos hacking.

Other then that, sit back and forget about it.