AFK Players in Whitegate and Besieged: Why aren't they autologged?

[tdh]

Re: AFK Players in Whitegate and Besieged: Why aren't they autologged?

I haven't played in two months, so this may have changed, but originally you had to be Lv.50 to "participate" in Besieged or Assault. Now I know I've been stuck in there as SAM45 once, and actually hit a few mobs for a total of about 150EXP. But we should hold up this Lv.50 restriction.

As has already been mentioned, there's a huge difference between a Lv.50 DD and a Lv.50 mage. Raise, Haste, Cure, and the list goes on, but a Lv.49 anything should just be removed from the zone. On the other hand the same argument can rise between a Lv.70+ job Vs. a Lv.50 job, but it was established that they were allowed under the rules of being a Merc.

The loitering rule is a great idea in my mind. It's been a problem for quite some time, and personally I'm surprised it hasn't been dealt with. I know I can't be the only person who hates having to run into the Mog House in a select few locations only to get bottled up because of people who are just standing there. Who have been standing there for quite some time idle.

I'm not saying there should be a change where we can't go AFK for Bazaaring or other things, but I do like the idea of preventing it in certain areas. Port Jeuno, Lower Jeuno, Upper Jeuno, Whitegate, and Aht Urhgan all come to mind. I've noticed the same people standing in the same damn spot for two or three nights running, each time not appearing to have moved at all. Just move those people into their Mog Houses, or completely dropped their connection.

[Vyuru]

Re: AFK Players in Whitegate and Besieged: Why aren't they autologged?

This should not be happening and it makes the experience very unenjoyable. And people can say what they want about a level 40 WHM being helpful but they're still occupying a space a level 60-75 WHM could be doing more good in.

Yeah, that can be frustrating, also frustrating to see a bunch of summoners summoning and releasing summons constantly...

Even while being attacked by mobs......

And when they never accept a raise.....

Or when they DO accept a raise they go right back to summoning/releasing summons...

[BurningPanther]

Re: AFK Players in Whitegate and Besieged: Why aren't they autologged?

It's gotten to the point where I don't even want to do Besieged; why should I help other players defend it when the Candescence doesn't do much for me, and so very few take it seriously anyway? Civic charity? I have better uses for my limited playtime than that.
Icemage

Agreed, especially in the face of the fact that, there are other places then the Aht Urgan areas to gain exp(a fact so few forget).

The way I see it, whenever we lose the Astral Candescence, it's another break from that damned Azouph Isle camp.

[Mog]

Re: AFK Players in Whitegate and Besieged: Why aren't they autologged?

Frankly, Besieged is an abject failure at the design level. It greatly favors specific jobs (red mages, white mages, tanks), and in fact encourages people to not bring their best jobs to the table, since it's relatively easy to get XP at level 70+.

It's gotten to the point where I don't even want to do Besieged; why should I help other players defend it when the Candescence doesn't do much for me, and so very few take it seriously anyway? Civic charity? I have better uses for my limited playtime than that.


Icemage

fixed.

Yeah, there's a very huge imbalance in besieged that I just don't give a shit to participate unless I'm skilling up my enfeebling magic skill. The fact that my flare attack only hits for 16 damage makes me not want to participate at all, because I for one, do not want to be made out to be a healing bitch(no offense to any white mages or red-mages who are reading this) when my specific role is to nuke.

Astral Candescene is great and all, but it's a huge time sink for me to waste my time with. I have better things to do, like level and help my linkshell to even care about it.

[little ninja]

Re: AFK Players in Whitegate and Besieged: Why aren't they autologged?

I only go to besieged as /whm cause im the only one that seems to ever cure me. So why sit around an try to heal 1k hp, when i can hit a few cure bombs to myself an keep at it.

Why make it next to impossible to hit, Why not just up its hp, an stats depending on the mob forces lvl. But instead i see myself struggle with the lvl 2 forces as if they were lvl 5. Its bad enough we have to sit thru 1k AoE, but then the mobs are spamming Eva boost to each other the whole time.

Well considering you only get 500-700 exp bonus. You dont really have to do much to land it. cure a few peeps, hit the mobs a few times, an your almost garenteed to get a few 100 exp. Id like to see someone break down how many cures they have to cast before they can hit max exp for a besieged.

At the beginning of every Event they declare martial law, this can trigger a zone warning. If you draw arms you stay, if you dont, then you warp to whitegate. No point to see AFKERs there. If so we should see them get punished,

LoL 16 for a flare, thats as bad as all these SC i do for 2 damage. How lame is that. 200 lvl 75 with merits an insane gear up the back side losing the candy all the time = something is f'ed up....

[Likibiki]

Re: AFK Players in Whitegate and Besieged: Why aren't they autologged?

I tanked/kited quite a few mobs as a level 20 NIN/WAR in there.

Don't tell me I wasn't useful.

Also, for people who say they can't hit the mobs, huh? I hit 2/3 of the time with my SMN and my lowly 234 staff skill, with no accuracy gear, no food... nothing.

Hell, I hit them a lot when I was on Ninja. They don't have big evasion - just lots of HP and attack...

[Icemage]

Re: AFK Players in Whitegate and Besieged: Why aren't they autologged?

I tanked/kited quite a few mobs as a level 20 NIN/WAR in there.
Don't tell me I wasn't useful.
Also, for people who say they can't hit the mobs, huh? I hit 2/3 of the time with my SMN and my lowly 234 staff skill, with no accuracy gear, no food... nothing.
Hell, I hit them a lot when I was on Ninja. They don't have big evasion - just lots of HP and attack...

20 NIN/WAR dies in a single hit once your shadows go (or to any AoE). Leave the zone, please. And yes, I will tell you to your face you weren't useful.

66% accuracy with 234 staff skill and no accuracy boost? Proof, please. Most melees at 75 that I know have difficulty hitting any of the main beastmen consistently (and most pets), and I can't touch most of the enemies with my RDM74 without sushi.


Icemage

[Balfree]

Re: AFK Players in Whitegate and Besieged: Why aren't they autologged?

How about... if you do stand in besieged zones without moving at all for a certain period of time, your character just becomes invisible, and you dont load for other people unless you move, AND you get automatically kicked out of besieged if youre in that state.

Yeah, as far as a notification the only issue I have with it. Is that an electing to join the fight directly defies the game's story.

And putting a limit of 700 people that can join on the battle to defend the nation doesnt? Its just another concept :\

ALERT D: Aht Urgan Plot Spoiler ALERT D:

and when you think about it, whats so scary about besieged when they mention it in the storyline, if nothing really bad will actually happen? i mean, sure we lose the candysense, but exactly what does that matter to the NPCs? =P just a broken sector of the storyline, but thats how it is, promathia is over, but theres still people fighting it right now, makes very little sense, but hey, games are like that :p

just wanted to say that... o.O;

[Macht]

Re: AFK Players in Whitegate and Besieged: Why aren't they autologged?

How about... if you do stand in besieged zones without moving at all for a certain period of time, your character just becomes invisible, and you dont load for other people unless you move, AND you get automatically kicked out of besieged if youre in that state.
And putting a limit of 700 people that can join on the battle to defend the nation doesnt? Its just another concept :\

ALERT D: Aht Urgan Plot Spoiler ALERT D:

and when you think about it, whats so scary about besieged when they mention it in the storyline, if nothing really bad will actually happen? i mean, sure we lose the candysense, but exactly what does that matter to the NPCs? =P just a broken sector of the storyline, but thats how it is, promathia is over, but theres still people fighting it right now, makes very little sense, but hey, games are like that :p

just wanted to say that... o.O;

The 700 people limit is an unfortunate limitation of technology. Technology limitation vs. intentionaly effecting are two different things. It's the same as why the Chocobo Racing though wanting to be similar to horse racing likely won't be, it's just another technological limitation.

Statement about a player not being helpful in a Besiege that allows 700 people to attend when they are doing something in is quite stupid. You have 700 people likely 10-20 a mob, and on top of NO EXP LOSS. 10-20 hitting the same mob even with high misses are still dealing decent damage. Even if it appears low got to remember claim system is being broken for this event, the very system that determins if a mob will even drop an item or award exp. So of course something else already existing has to be used and the easiest and most convenient is damage a player successfully deals or recovers.

So of course the mobs HP has to be low for it and evasion/defense high. If players were able to easily get 1k damage they'd be hitting the EXP cap way to easily. Any other reductions to damage dealt to these I see being reasonable only for the intent of giving an even playing board were players of equal skill will get EXP fitting to that, then the lack of EXP gainned is only a result of that players skill. First thing people have to get out of their heads is Besiege is not like a normal EXPing fight, way to often I see players go to it aware that it isn't but then start playing and trying to form it being just what it isn't. It's like someone playing monopoly and saying the dice roll numbers count double or half for them of how they choose it to be.

The only problem I see with Besiege is that the EXP reward for the time spent is just to low. Upped to 6k-8k and it would be more fitting. The catch though is if they do that it's to likely to draw more people to wanting to do that event and technology limitations starts getting burdened. Should also add, don't know how many times I've said this now. FFXI has a very specific load pattern as well as what becomes visible, if your system can't handle the number of player models then go in the options and drop the damn max down to what your system can handle.

[little ninja]

Re: AFK Players in Whitegate and Besieged: Why aren't they autologged?

Naaa MAcht my system can handle the load pattern, S.E's sytem cant handle the information packets it tries to send. We all already know that this game was built for an around the limitations of the PS2, an the fact that that its information is sent at a speed of 56k. For some odd reasom S.E's servers have a player limit, as well as a zone limit.

Well give a mob high hp, an high def, but WTF is with giving the mobs insane eva. An on top of that, a abilitiy called Eva bost, in which mobs spam ever other minute. But you are right there is not point to doing the event, Especially for me to be effective, i have to pop expensive sushi, Just to deal some consistant damage. Otherwise my well built job, with its stack of merits is still useless. an for what 500-700 exp? i can go /bst, an get that much in a 1/3 of the time.

Macht to hit the exp cap of any besieged you just have to attack 1-2 mobs from full hp to 0. an say the hell with the other 20mins of besieged. An go hide in the very corner of the map, an you will almost always hit the cap exp limit. Why keep going an pushing your limits only to die to some stupid 1k AoE.

I tanked/kited quite a few mobs as a level 20 NIN/WAR in there.
Don't tell me I wasn't useful.
Also, for people who say they can't hit the mobs, huh? I hit 2/3 of the time with my SMN and my lowly 234 staff skill, with no accuracy gear, no food... nothing.
Hell, I hit them a lot when I was on Ninja. They don't have big evasion - just lots of HP and attack...

I could not have read anything more stupider then this. This community tld me i was wacked. Looks like i finally got competition...

[Raydeus]

Re: AFK Players in Whitegate and Besieged: Why aren't they autologged?

Besieged needs adjustments in one way or the other, while the idea (of besieged) is good it's obvious by now that the limitations of the system simply cause more troubles than anything.

It seems XI hit it's functional cap with Dynamis, so anything that involves more than 60-100 players in the same area at a given time is just too inefficient to be enjoyable.

Both limitations from the PS2/PC-port engine and the data transfer cap make it pretty much impossible to handle more than 300 players in an area at the same time, just look at what happens in Whitegate now, 300-500 players in that area means a huge amount of lag because of congestion, and all players do is just run around.

So 500-700 players (in Besieged) not only running around but also performing many battle related actions are too much for the system to handle.

I'm sure SE knows all about this, but I wonder how are they planning to fix it while keeping the data transfer cap and PS2 compatibility.

[Macht]

Re: AFK Players in Whitegate and Besieged: Why aren't they autologged?

Naaa MAcht my system can handle the load pattern, S.E's sytem cant handle the information packets it tries to send. We all already know that this game was built for an around the limitations of the PS2, an the fact that that its information is sent at a speed of 56k. For some odd reasom S.E's servers have a player limit, as well as a zone limit.
Well give a mob high hp, an high def, but WTF is with giving the mobs insane eva. An on top of that, a abilitiy called Eva bost, in which mobs spam ever other minute. But you are right there is not point to doing the event, Especially for me to be effective, i have to pop expensive sushi, Just to deal some consistant damage. Otherwise my well built job, with its stack of merits is still useless. an for what 500-700 exp? i can go /bst, an get that much in a 1/3 of the time.
Macht to hit the exp cap of any besieged you just have to attack 1-2 mobs from full hp to 0. an say the hell with the other 20mins of besieged. An go hide in the very corner of the map, an you will almost always hit the cap exp limit. Why keep going an pushing your limits only to die to some stupid 1k AoE.
I could not have read anything more stupider then this. This community tld me i was wacked. Looks like i finally got competition...

Games are built with what's called "fuzzy logic" this means the game does a bit of predictions on what a player is likely to do. The fuzzy logic also creates some gaps (Being able to successfully cast a spell after moving as long as you are at the spot were you started the cast before it ends, same with RNG's ranged attacks). So something that SEs system can't handle from the low transfer rate should not impact your system.

If your system is impacted then it's your system, I create asyncronous queries for over 30 databases at work all day long. If you think a computer pauses or skips because of a data transfer over the network then you got it all wrong. With asyncronous queries the only time the system pauses is when it receives a large chunk of data at once and it's incapable of handling.

As for the 1-2 mobs that's true provided that your are hitting more frequently then anyone else. I've had days were I've killed 4-5 mobs and was just under cap because my accuracy was bad for some reason on those days, then had days were it was 1-2 mobs because of good accuracy. The players successfully getting the cap with the 1-2 mobs are obviously better equipped then the rest and that right there is proof of it.

[ikkleste]

Re: AFK Players in Whitegate and Besieged: Why aren't they autologged?

just an observation, but i think with time, we'll see more levels of besieged. This will lead to instead of a flow of level 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 5 > 5 > 5 > 5 >....> 5 > 5 > 5> 5 > loss > wait for the candescence to be rescued> repeat, to 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7 > 8 > loss > return the candescence (and i think if SE get their way quicker than currently) start again at 1.

We, i think, we are meant to lose more than this, eventually, which will mean that we see more lower level sieges, and more action for level 50 ish people. I think 50ish players are supposed to be able to play beseiged and in time will be able to, but as people are so successful at it we just aren't losing enough yet.

[Macht]

Re: AFK Players in Whitegate and Besieged: Why aren't they autologged?

just an observation, but i think with time, we'll see more levels of besieged. This will lead to instead of a flow of level 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 5 > 5 > 5 > 5 >....> 5 > 5 > 5> 5 > loss > wait for the candescence to be rescued> repeat, to 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7 > 8 > loss > return the candescence (and i think if SE get their way quicker than currently) start again at 1.
We, i think, we are meant to lose more than this, eventually, which will mean that we see more lower level sieges, and more action for level 50 ish people. I think 50ish players are supposed to be able to play beseiged and in time will be able to, but as people are so successful at it we just aren't losing enough yet.

As I see it too, the levels of the besiege almost seem to point at what'll eventually be effect bonuses. So you survive level 1 besiege anyone with sanction get lv. 1 quality effect, survive 2 besiege anyone with sanction get lv. 2 quality effect, survive 3 besiege anyone with santion get lv. 3 quality effect, and so on till it's lost (Then resets to 1). It's like Magic's: Fifth Dawn converted to an MMO style.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: AFK Players in Whitegate and Besieged: Why aren't they autologged?

Doesn't make it worth it when an ENM can give you 3k for 30 min. of effort when this gives you 700 for 1-2hrs. of effort. If the potential EXP was more like 6k-8k then it would be more enticing.

...which would lead to even more level 20s and 40s running around casting Dia.

People go on and on about EXP returns, but not IS, the IS you get is pretty good. 700-800 is a lot considering it can take almost two hours to break 1k IS in EXP.

And idling in Sandoria, Windurst and Bastok is totally a different thing. They're no longer high-traffic areas with the exception of the Dyanmis gatherings or Events and even then its pretty mild traffic. It doesn't affect what you need to do there.

If Jeuno is Highpass then Al'Zahbi/Whitegate is definately the Freeport of FFXI, both are laggy, but Whitegate's lag just gets absurd since so many idle there doing nothing, not even bazaaring. I'm sure we've all done it, but it comes at a cost of the game running smoothly. If I have a choice of going to Al'Zahbi, Tavnazian Safehold or Jeuno instantly and I'm in Windurst, I'll OP to Tav in a heartbeat due to the low traffic there. I don't have to wait the extra time for the AH to actually load or deal with network congestion with the Delivery Box.