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Crafters and Commission work.

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  • Crafters and Commission work.

    Sometimes its hard to find a crafter for the things you need when the AH doesn't have the crafted items you want. Other factors can be inflation, RMT and just plain player greed hindering you from getting a craftable item you need

    While one obvious solution is to work up the craft yourself, not all players have the time or resourses to invest time in to crafting. Additionally, players are limited to specializing in one craft, the best you could possibly achieve in others if you choose to specialize is 60.

    And if you want key items from guild points specilization is neccessary in the long term.

    Arranging in-game commission jobs for crafters is problematic. For one, there's still the RMT/player greed to consider, but also just the matter of finding the crafter for the job you need done. While search functions are designed to help you find crafters and people selling items, this function is underutlized by the people you'd want to find.

    So, I guess what I'm advocating here is a commisions system be added to existing guilds. My concept is that players that don't craft or can't specialize in another craft could come to the guilds, trade NPCs materials and gil for a job they want commissioned. Crafters, in turn, would take the job and its materials to do the work, then trade the requested item back to a kind of delivery NPC, which would then forward the items to the player that set up the commssion.

    Now, the obvious expliot here would be that a crafter might take those items and just use them for themselves. A possible solution could be is that after the items were traded to the NPC by the player issuing the commision, that those materials and the items produced are identified as guild materials. I guess the best example would be that they became items like you see in Brenner or Ballista, they can only exist in your inventory under specific condtions. Failing to remain in the zone with said items would mean losing them and the commission job would be reset. The items would not be AHable or tradable to the usual delivery NPCs.

    Crafters that finish the job would recieve a portion of the gil the original player issued and possibly guild points as well. A fraction of the original gil obviously just going to the guild itself for taking the job. Once items were taken to the delivery representative, the original player would recieve the item in their delivery box in its standard form.

    There would obviously have to be some limitations as to how many commissions a crafter could do per day/conquest week, in addtion to how many commisons were requested by players. And the items requested would also probably have to be prevented from HQing, with the possible exception of stackable items. Gil issued for the commission would also likely have to have its limits as well, as offering too small a return to players wouldn't make such a function worthwhile, yet, rewarding too much would undermine the AH system and economy otherwise.

    Anyway, just an thought I had. I'm unsure how practical such an idea would be for the Fishing and Cooking guilds, but I think it would apply well to the others. It would be a godsend to players who have difficulty in finding a crafter to have a specific kind of armor/weapon made, not to mention players whose jobs revolve around consumable items.
    Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 08-19-2006, 10:58 AM. Reason: It needed a question, apparently >.>

  • #2
    Re: Crafters and Commission work.

    I like the idea, I like it alot(except the part about not being able to HQ ; Cool stuff.

    (Even though there is no question)
    sigpic

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    • #3
      Re: Crafters and Commission work.

      Sounds reasonable but what would happen if the synth failed?

      If a crafter has to return an item back to the NPC to have the commission wiped off their worksheet (lets say you can take 5 commissions) if they failed the synth they wouldn't be able to clear their sheet unless they collected the same materials themselves and performed a successful synth.

      I suppose this could be solved by a craft ability check from the NPC so that crafters wouldn't be able to take commissions unless they're x levels over the cap for the item, but this would prevent high level items being created in this way.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Crafters and Commission work.

        Originally posted by queenuma
        Sounds reasonable but what would happen if the synth failed?

        If a crafter has to return an item back to the NPC to have the commission wiped off their worksheet (lets say you can take 5 commissions) if they failed the synth they wouldn't be able to clear their sheet unless they collected the same materials themselves and performed a successful synth.

        I suppose this could be solved by a craft ability check from the NPC so that crafters wouldn't be able to take commissions unless they're x levels over the cap for the item, but this would prevent high level items being created in this way.
        This is actually a good point. Were a synth to fail, I suppose you could say the guild would front the lost materials on the guild's dime (their percentage has to go somewhere) and the resulting reward and GPs awarded could be lessened. This could mean the NPCs would likely have to set the prices for commissions based on the skill level of the item rather than having the player choose the price.

        And it would have to accomodate those above certain caps as opposed to those below it. It would be a hassle, sure, but most people looking to commission crafters in-game now aren't looking for crafters who need skillups.

        I guess another potential problem with my idea could be whether or not the player pays the NPC upfront. If the system replaced the materials lost on a busted synth (again, this being part of what the guild's take is assumed to cover), then players could pay upfront with little worry. If the job was never taken up, the system would just send the gil and the materials back to the player similar to how the AH returns items now.

        Anyway, the concept skews more toward a "sure thing" so if it were to pan out that way, HQs would have to be less possible under these conditions. If HQs were to happen under this system, its all players would ever persue to get their high-end gear done because it would likely be cheaper to do so. Plus the chance of HQ would, again, undermine the system as it stands now.

        However, as crafting works right now, some jobs are totally at the mercy of crafters while others simply are not. For example, back in my days as a BRD, most of the equipment was easy to come by, however, the craftable instruments I wanted were sometimes really hard to come by. Another example would be jobs like RNG vs. COR, which I both play right now. RNG has lots of ammo options and if supply on silvers bullets is low, I can turn to darksteel bolts or other ammo and still perform my job.

        However, COR is limited to three types of bullets alone (Corsair Bullets can only be ENMed once a week, so they don't count). If I'm either not able able to buy my bullets, my only options are to not level and wait for crafters to make more or sink tons of gil into craftng to get around that dependancy. I'm going to do the latter so I don't have to deal with days of not levelling agian but what if were in a similar situation where I needed to make something 60+ in a craft? I'm a bonecrafter by trade, so taking on a new main craft means Bonecraft would be reduced to 60. That's a bit hard to swallow, even if I understand the reasoning behind it.

        So I'd be at the mercy or another crafter under the current system, we've all heard the best and worst case scenarios to come from that. I think a system like the one I've discussed here would help players meet their basic needs while still rewarding crafters and not deteriorating the value of HQs.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Crafters and Commission work.

          Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten
          I guess another potential problem with my idea could be whether or not the player pays the NPC upfront. If the system replaced the materials lost on a busted synth (again, this being part of what the guild's take is assumed to cover), then players could pay upfront with little worry. If the job was never taken up, the system would just send the gil and the materials back to the player similar to how the AH returns items now.

          Anyway, the concept skews more toward a "sure thing" so if it were to pan out that way, HQs would have to be less possible under these conditions. If HQs were to happen under this system, its all players would ever persue to get their high-end gear done because it would likely be cheaper to do so. Plus the chance of HQ would, again, undermine the system as it stands now.
          I would say the player pays upfront and their gil (not all of it at least) isn't returned if the synth fails or nobody completes the commission.

          I've been thinking about this because I believe it is a good idea.

          Lets say somebody wants a rose wand and they've managed to get a piece of rosewood lumber and a black chocobo feather. Now they go to the NPC and select the item and trade the gil + materials. Ok, now the NPC will add the item to the commissions list, they could be broken down into groups:

          Under 20 (no commissions for you :p )
          20-30 (2,000 gil per synth)
          30-40 (5,000 gil per synth)
          40-50 (10,000 gil per synth)
          etc.

          Rose wand is a level 47 craft so it would be entered into the 50-60 group so that the system cannot be used for skillups therefore giving a higher success rate. So a crafter hops along to the guild and accepts the commission, they trade the item back to the NPC and are given a choice of gil or GP. If the person HQ's the synth they are given bonus GP but only a normal quality item is sent to the player. I suppose a cap would have to be introduced so that crafters can't abuse the system doing low level synths for easy GP.

          Right now lets say the crafter was only at level 51, it was the wrong day and he/she was facing the wrong direction, the synth fails. They would then have to talk to the NPC and would be given a "blackspot" on their commission list for a set period of time preventing them from taking a commission in that level bracket. The actual commission would still sit on the logs waiting for another crafter to accept it.

          If the commission isn't accepted or no successful synths are completed in the allocated time period the materials are returned to the player but their gil is retained by the system.

          There are several areas in would require tight rules to prevent abuse but like I said earlier, it is a very good idea.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Crafters and Commission work.

            If the crafter HQs the synth, why shouldn't the player that placed the order be able to get the HQ product... I don't understand.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Crafters and Commission work.

              Originally posted by TenchiHawkwing
              If the crafter HQs the synth, why shouldn't the player that placed the order be able to get the HQ product... I don't understand.
              I think Kitten's idea is that this system doesn't replace the existing AH/craft system so if HQ synths were eliminated from a commission that would allow for the current system to still function.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Crafters and Commission work.

                Sounds overly complicated to me, especially since it applies only to craftable items, and would be scattered in all the different guilds. How about something more general instead?

                We have a "want to sell" auctions system; maybe S-E can set up a "want to buy" market system in parallel. To draw the sellers, the would-be buyers have to deposit the gil first, so seller can get his payoff instantly instead of using up an AH slot waiting for something to sell.

                So, it'd work something like this:
                1. Player A wanted Super Sword +1, which is normally sold for 140k, and there's only 1 instock and couldn't get it for 155k.
                2. So, Player A hops on the "Want to Buy" system, and put down 135k for a Super Sword +1, and waits patiently.
                3. A day later, Crafter B has some Super Ingots lying around, and is looking for quick turn around profit. He checks out the "Want to Buy" system, and noticed someone wants Super Sword +1. 38k is not a lot, but it's still profitable and it is better than waiting for a 3 days to see if he can sell the sword or not. So, he crafts a few times, HQ's one, and fills the order, and desynth the NQ's.

                Well, it's a dream. Maybe S-E can do this after they let us seek on job while actually doing quests on another...
                Bamboo shadows sweep the stars,
                yet not a mote of dust is stirred;
                Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond,
                leaving no trace in the water.

                - Mugaku

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Crafters and Commission work.

                  Well SE made it so people had to specialize in one craft for a reason, they want people to work for each other. That's the whole point of their current system and I don't see them adding and extremely round-a-bout way of accomplishing the same goal.

                  What would help out both crafters and crafties in this situation would be the 'bulletin board' idea that was asked about in a different thread. IMO anyway.
                  "I have a forebrain, my ability to abstract thoughts allow for all kinds of things" - Red Mage 8-Bit theater

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Crafters and Commission work.

                    Right now lets say the crafter was only at level 51, it was the wrong day and he/she was facing the wrong direction, the synth fails. They would then have to talk to the NPC and would be given a "blackspot" on their commission list for a set period of time preventing them from taking a commission in that level bracket. The actual commission would still sit on the logs waiting for another crafter to accept it.
                    It sounds to me like this is a negative to the crafter. A crafter can't dodge the random 5%-10% fail generator that comes with crafting, therefore they shouldn't be held responsible or action takin against them because of it.

                    The overall system is kind of cool in concept, but I think that there would have to be a relatively attractive incentive for crafters to participate in this. Whether it's a fair decent fee or GP's (Gp's are a good idea), most higher level crafters would likely not participate imo.

                    I think most would still prefer to work outside of this as they can command larger fees that way. I do know that a decent number of high lvl crafters do not take requests these days, self included. So for these guys, it would probably have to be heavy temptation.
                    Woodworking 100+3
                    Smithing 100+3
                    Bonecraft 99+1
                    Goldsmithing 100+3
                    Leather 100+1
                    Cloth 82

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Crafters and Commission work.

                      Originally posted by mikesjustice
                      It sounds to me like this is a negative to the crafter. A crafter can't dodge the random 5%-10% fail generator that comes with crafting, therefore they shouldn't be held responsible or action takin against them because of it.
                      True but the amount of time the blackspot would be on their record could be dependant on the craft level or maybe they could be allowed 3 blackspots per level at. I don't think it would discourage crafters too much but I think something along these lines would be needed to aid the customer. It wouldn't do the customer any good to have the same crafter accept the commission repeatedly and fail.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Crafters and Commission work.

                        Kinda reviving an old thread, but there are some other ways to make this work.

                        Want to buy:
                        1) Buyer selects item from AH-like menu system.
                        2) Buyer (optionally) provides crystals/mats.
                        3) Buyer provides fee (set by Buyer) for crafting their item.

                        Available contracts:
                        1) Crafter selects item (interface shows whether or not crystal and all mats are provided for them, crafts above skill level are greyed out).
                        1a) (optional) Crafter provides missing mats/crystal.
                        2) Crafter selects "craft item" option.
                        3) Cutscene.
                        4) Crafter gets contract points (optional).

                        Aftermath:
                        1) Item sent directly from NPC to buyer.
                        2) Gil immediately paid to crafter.

                        Only thing with this type of system would be that it wouldn't be feasible for skilling up your craft. Otherwise, it could be fun.

                        Edit: Just realized that, even if you are above cap, you can still blow up your synths... Back to the drawing board.
                        Last edited by Bricklayer; 10-05-2006, 12:26 AM.
                        Character: Bricklayer
                        Server: Ramuh
                        31 RDM/ 23 BLM/ 20 WHM

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