Limited Merits at Player Discretion

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

There is one benefit I see to this that makes it a lot more appealing to me. Being able to go into limit mode and freeze your experience at any time would make it possible for groups of friends who invest disparate amounts of time into the game to hold their levels together while allowing the people who play more to continue to play their preferred job and still reap some benefit.

I had originally hoped this is how they would do it, too, though I thought the benifits would be available starting after G1.

Certainly I wouldn't mind seeing something that allowed you to go into Merit mode at will especially and more so because I tend to get ahead of my friends. Then again, I could see it being abused as people find those certain levels we all know and love that -always- seem to just click, and kick ass.

Wouldn't seem fair, if you ask me, that a NIN for example, could go duo mobs for 200+ xp with another nin and turn around and use those points on thier WHM, while I'm having to compete with RDM in merit parties.

I dunno. Changing it has so many plusses and draw backs... I guess it comes down to what you said before, honestly...

If it ain't broke...

[BurningPanther]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

We'll put it like this.

At 75, you've reached the wall, the end. There is no further for you to go, no time in the near or far future will S-E raise the cap. Once you've attained the most elite gear, capped all skills available to you, that's it. You've done the most you can do with that job. Merits are the opportunity to expand your job's parameters for a level that can't be expanded. To, in essence, "go further" with your 75 job, that's what merits are for.

At any level prior to 75, you have no wall. At level 1, you have another 74 levels until reaching your potential. The only four barriers to your progression(at 50, 55, 60, and 65), are mere quests. Temporary. Until then, your potential is still untapped, your parameters still waiting to be increased, but don't need to be incresed individually, since you still have more levels to obtain.

Any job prior to 75 dosen't need merits, they've still got progress to make. Merits are there when you've done all the growing you can do: namely, when you've reached 75.

[levish]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

1-75 just leveling up is more efficient than spending time on merits

My big gripe is that you are not allowed to reassign merit points already gotten and used without loosing them.

As if getting the hundreds of thousands of xp once isn't enough, heaven forbid if in case you wanted to go from playing a fully merited PLD to a Darknight

[Balodoth]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

I certainly understand what you mean, BurningPanther. The hole in your logic, as already pointed out, is that you benefit on jobs that have not yet reached 75. This is expanding your character before they ever reach the barrier you speak of. So in short, no, this is not leveling above and beyond leveling--this is personalizing and expanding your character.

I would also like to point out that I have not suggested opening up Merits in full to anyone and everyone. I explicityly referred to a tiered system wherein your options increase as you level and many options do not open up until 75 anyway. The primary idea is that somebody who has not had the chance--notice I say chance as opposed to desire, willingness, or other things within the player's control--can have the same bonuses as somebody who has had the chance would have. If it's only +1 MND at that level for the player who has a job @ 75, then the player without a job @ 75 has the ability for the same bonus. I want merits to be something primarily rewarded to those who have the time and effort into this to reach 75. I merely ask for the chance to level the playing field between those who are capable and those who are not.

When the founding fathers of the United States began assembling a government, there were two lines of thought on how to imitate the british parliament. It was in fact a lack of representation that ignited the rebellion. One group thought it was accurate that each state have representation equal to every other state. The other group thought it was best to have representation equal to the amount of people within each state. Unable to reach an agreement, it was decided this nation would use both approaches. Thus the House and the Senate were born, with the House's members based on population and the Senate's members 2 for each state.

I'm sure many of you are familiar with this piece of history, but there is a simple lesson for the game. I mentioned that regardless of level reached, we all pay the same monthly access fee. The factualness was not argued, but the legitimacy of whether this entitled everyone to merits was argued. Well, there are two approaches: I put the time and effort into the game to earn the right to gain merits, and I pay the same fee and earn the right to gain merits. Some things in this game are level based (e.g. unlocking advanced jobs is the realm of time and effort) while others are equal opportunity (e.g. using the auction house is the realm of access by virtue of paying the fee). Many things are a combination, such as anyone can claim an NM, but your level may or may not properly equip you to kill it. Or anyone can get subjob or Genkai items at any level, but it may require help. The long and short of this, in light of the above history, is that merits are in the realm of both. . . except for one trifling exception. Jobs of virtually any level can benefit. So why can't jobs of virtually any level earn them?

[levish]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

because character advancement for people <75 is leveling up

for those at 75 the only option to further yourself is merits

basically Meriting is your "reward" for reaching 75

[BurningPanther]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

Meriting at 75 is the opprotunity to expand the parameters of that maxed out job, but the fringe benefits that a lower job would enjoy are the the other reward, an achievement not unlike equipping your subjob.

[Mhurron]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

Do you really have so hard a time realizing there are things that improve or benefit your character regardless of what job you are currently leveling? Merits are no different.

[levish]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

Meriting is the reward for reaching the end of the rainbow of 75 levels, and that end of the rainbow is more xping.

o_O

do you really want to spend 10k xp getting +2 to sword or dagger when you could spend it going from 52 -> 53 and getting +5 to sword skill in the process?

[Vyuru]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

Well, considering xp is so rare for you, would you actually consider meritting if it was available? Wouldn't it make more sense just to spend your xp leveling up, getting a whole bunch of benefits, rather than spending it to get +1 strength?

Well, yes and no. If I could merit, I'd put it into critical hits, polearm skill, and mp+ to help with my soloing. However, lately I have been having problems with getting too much hate in parties even when using my hate shedding jumps to their fullest, most of that is due to crappy tanks, but even so. If it's made me hesitant to really deck out my dragoon in the best gear I could get, would I want to merit my stats still if I had the option? Maybe yes, maybe no.

All things being equal though... Yes, I think I would like to merit. I would probably merit every 10 levels when I could get the benefits of the merits, and then go exp for another 10 levels. The merits would make me just a tad bit stronger, and more accurate. It might even be the difference between whether I eat sushi, or meat dishes.

It would also be nice to have merits for all of the level capped stuff I do, which used to be quite alot, but my main concern is that with more and more people reaching lvl 75, I would not be surprised to start seeing Merits: O in people's search comments, and that is what I do not want.

Truth be told I would think that merits on an alternate job would be a minor thing, but it always surprises me that what I hold to be a minor thing, other people view it as a big enough issue not to invite you to a party, or not take you on a Prom run or other level capped event. Basically, so long as the playing field stays open, I'm happy. I agree with Sevenpointflaw, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, I'm just worried that it is very close to being broken.

I like Taskmage's idea, it would be nice to go into limit mode while waiting for other people to get up to your level for a static. Sure, I could go level another job or something while I waited as it is, but really, my passion is Dragoon, and besides, I've got 40+ moghouse spaces dedicated to storing lvl capped equipment for my dragoon >.> I can't really get the inventory space to do havesting and level another job

[Hamlet]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

Actually, after reading that and thinking about it, it probably would make sense to merit in the lower lvls. If you could merit like +4 to your weapon skill, that will help you in all of your lvls as you lvl up. It would almost be overpowering, though. If you could fully or close to fully merit dragoon/whm, you'd tear through mobs, and people would start to frown upon inviting people without merits.

Like I said before, I was surprised when I found out merits were transferrable. But this would add a whole new dimension to the benefits, because you'd be benefitting your main job (mostly in the traits department, but also in weapon skills because many jobs don't share the same proficiency in weapons).

It's true that level 75s are able to benefit their main job, but that makes more sense because they can't level anymore so besides meritting and getting really hard to get gear, there isn't much they can do.

[Murphie]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

Actually, after reading that and thinking about it, it probably would make sense to merit in the lower lvls. If you could merit like +4 to your weapon skill, that will help you in all of your lvls as you lvl up. It would almost be overpowering, though. If you could fully or close to fully merit dragoon/whm, you'd tear through mobs, and people would start to frown upon inviting people without merits.

Honestly, this is one of my main concerns with this idea. Probably needless worrying on my part, but there it is. It wouldn't take long for people to start insisting that you have merits as soon as you're able, and soon enough, you would have to take even longer to get through those midgame levels because you'd have to stop getting exp every now and then to merit up.

That would be frustrating as hell.

[tdh]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

Limit Points were added for the Lv.75 people to have a reason to EXP. People would cap EXP, and then have nothing to do with their favorite job outside of wait for end game activities. Now there are 30+ people seeking at Lv.75, and zero at Lv.50-53.

The recent update was 95% geared toward Lv.75 people. Sucks for those who have not reached the top of the mountain, but at the same time there are a lot of people at Lv.75 are dropping like flies with nothing else to do. The Merit system is a reward for going the distance, and to keep people playing. Changing the Merit system so a Lv.50 person can just lock their EXP and get Limit points takes that reward away.

I know a few people in my LS who are in their mid-50's didn't see what all the hype was for the most recent update. But 15 or so people with Lv.75 jobs were really excited. Others who are in the high 60's, almost to Lv.75 were excited to hit Lv.75 so they can start meriting. Be patient, and finish climbing the mountain, and then once there you can enjoy the Merit system like the others who got there ahead of you.

I would like some changes to the Merit system, but this isn't one I'd vote for.

[Balodoth]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

Could somebody please tell me how another person checks your merits. I know how to check job/level, sub/level, equipment, rank, etc. But I've never seen a way I can check a person's staff skill, summoning skill, cooking skill, merits and others without taking that person's word for it. Then again, I had a few months hiatus for RL stuff. Maybe I missed something? Then again, I haven't seen any 75's talking about what merits they demand from party members either so. . .

Let me ask one thing. Is there anyone here saying this is a bad idea that hasn't reached 75 yet? The reason I ask is that this is starting to sound a lot like when S-E eased up the EXP restrictions. There were a LOT of people angry about it. Turns out the line was drawn between the people who already did the work to reach 75 and those who hadn't. And given my sudden drop in Rep Power, it looks like the proponents of the traditional system are zealously defending their "turf." Here I thought it was a means of establishing trust, and the whole time it was an anonymous popularity contest. My thanks to those who have at least considered my thoughts and acknowledged my logic, even if they disagreed.

In the end, it probably is much what Taskmage pointed out. There's valid thoughts on both sides of the agenda. If it functions the way it is, why bother making an alteration?

[Hamlet]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

Could somebody please tell me how another person checks your merits. I know how to check job/level, sub/level, equipment, rank, etc. But I've never seen a way I can check a person's staff skill, summoning skill, cooking skill, merits and others without taking that person's word for it. Then again, I had a few months hiatus for RL stuff. Maybe I missed something?

There is no way to check. But do you really think having people lie about their merits to get into parties would be a good thing?

Not only does your question beg the point that many people may feel the need to do so, but it also brings up the point that people could easily take advantage of the system to get better invites then they've earned. After all, if they miss alot, they could just be having an unlucky day, right?

You're right that it may not turn into that big of a deal, as it hasn't shown to be a difference at lvl 75, but it could present some unpleasent situations.

Also, the game isn't designed for this. The mobs you fight for xp are designed to be hard for your level. If you can merit your weapon skill, you're effectively being able to hit a monster at the same rate as someone one to two lvls above you.

[Murphie]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

I'm nowhere near 75 (you can expect to see me hitting it by the end of the year at the earliest, if not later) and I really don't think it's a great idea.

Well, scratch that. I think it's a great idea in theory, but I don't think it's an idea that would work, or that I think should be implemented.