Limited Merits at Player Discretion

[Balodoth]

Why must we wait until we are level 75 to obtain merit points and use them? I would like the ability to earn them at virtually any level. Naturally I wouldn't have access to all options, but slowly opening them up at higher levels would be fine.

It can be somewhat annoying to hear somebody who has a job to 75 already talk about getting some of those bonuses as they level other jobs. I can certainly understand rewarding a player for their accomplishment by making the process to level another job easier, but there's no reason to limit anyone else if they are willing to expend the effort.

For instance, the new job-specific merits would be restricted to level 75, but increasing max HP/MP would not. Critical hit rate may be limited to a single merit point, but might open up a 2nd point 10 levels from now. Several points worth of options may exist, but less points would be allowed to be invested. This could increase more quickly than options open up. (e.g. Investing potential climbs 1 point per 3 levels, but a new option or the ceiling on a current option might climb 1 point per 5 or 10 levels.) The moogle may also require you to earn the benefit via quest and impose harsh restrictions such as dieing in merit mode sets you back to EXP mode and you can no longer merit at that level with that job.

[Mhurron]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

Just a guess, but maybe because merits are a benifit to getting to 75.

Why not just ask why you have to go through all those ZM's to get Sky access or CoP to get Sea?

there's no reason to limit anyone else if they are willing to expend the effort.

Somone willing to expend the effort will get to 75 to start meriting their character, not ask that they be able to do it the moment they log in.

[Climhazzard]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

I agree that some merits should be available before 75. I personally think the merit system is very poor with the way it's set-up.

[Murphie]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

I'm with Mhurron. The merit system is in place specifically to reward players who have taken the time to get to 75. That's the whole point of it. I don't see any reason to lower the level requirements for it, regardless of the merit in question.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

How is the system poor? It is the equivelent of leveling your character to 77-78 if you max things out. Why is making stuff available earlier a good idea? It makes no sense storywise for one, and gameplaywise for another.

[Taskmage]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

I see no problem with a level 50 character spending some experience to buy a couple extra skill points or hit points across all jobs. I also see no problem with saving that ability as a reward for people who've reached 75. If it ain't broke ...

[Balodoth]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

Thank you, Taskmage. You are the only person to provide an understandable reason behind your opinion. Not that anyone's opinions are unimportant, but they're merely an opinion until you justify it with facts.

As far as rewarding players who take the time to level to 75, it's much more complicated than that. By that logic, I should also be asking that an alliance of level 30's be able to take on Kirin, or that the Rajas Ring be attainable without a job above level 40. I'm all for rewarding players who put time and energy into the game. I'm also for rewarding people who can't put as much time into the game but still pay the same fee every month.

Consider this: Specific people--most notably RMT--monopolize Valkurm Emporer, Leaping Lizzie, and Argus. S-E responds (eventually) by making Ex versions and moves the existing drops to BCNM. What was the ultimate purpose? Not to hurt RMT or lower AH prices or make some equipment more accessible. That was the means. The purpose was to make the game more fun and, in some small way, easier for us.

New food, new equipment, new abilities, new mobs. . . they've all been to make the game more fun and, in some small way, easier for us. This is also part of the reason some merit bonuses are granted on lower level jobs.

There is an inherent difference between merits and other endgame activities. They are a means by which other activities can be enjoyed more. Those other activities though are the reward for time spent to reach the endgame. The key point I'm trying to point out here is that merits is not an event, it is a timesink.

Whether one spend time earning 10,000 exp now or several levels from now, it's still 10,000 exp. I feel that if a MNK wants to take a few days to earn 1 STR and increase his DPS by .01, why shouldn't he? It's already obvious that the 70's are the most effective levels to gain merits, so this would definitely be a decision to take seriously. And any claims it would speed up somebody's leveling is moot considering it would take longer to merit at lower levels (especially as your party levels and you dont) and that S-E has already smoothed out the exp requirements.

I just want to post a small disclaimer. Don't think I don't respect people who are level 75. While I am not there yet, I know I could be closer if I had focused a bit more. But that makes me that much more understanding of what it takes to reach that point. It's not just about keeping up with the learning curve of the game. There are very real elements outside the game that contribute: research, scheduling, networking, self-discipline, and others. I respect people who can accomplish that. I'm not trying to take away anything that I feel you have rightly earned. I know many people who view merits not as a reward but as a chore and a means of preparing for other more enjoyable things. I figure if I can siphon exp every time I go farm EP mobs, maybe I could get a little bit ahead of the game. No pun intended.

[Hamlet]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

I'm pretty sure merits were something added in to keep people playing (i.e. paying) after they hit 75.

And would you really want to spend 10k xp on a lower lvl job, when xp is harder to come by and when you can get a full level-up for almost as much, just for +1 str (i.e. you could spend your time getting +1 str, or you could spend it and get + to all your stats, access to better gear, higher skill caps etc etc etc)

edit: also, it takes 3 merits to get your first +1 to str. After that, it costs more. And 30k xp is more than you will need to lvl up most of the time.

[Mhurron]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

By that logic, I should also be asking that an alliance of level 30's be able to take on Kirin, or that the Rajas Ring be attainable without a job above level 40.

Yes your initial request was just as absurd as these.

You want access to merit abilities without doing the work to get to 75. That is no different then not wanting to get to 75 to take on Kirin or level high enough to complete CoP yet still asking for the rewards of doing so.

That someone has multiple jobs to 75 and you have none and both pay the same monthly fee is irrelevent. Items that drop being made Rare/Ex was not made to hurt RMT or lower prices, neither of which happened, but to reduce the heavy camping of some mobs. Making it harder to get the sellable versions increased the price.

[TenchiHawkwing]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

Yes your initial request was just as absurd as these.

You want access to merit abilities without doing the work to get to 75. That is no different then not wanting to get to 75 to take on Kirin or level high enough to complete CoP yet still asking for the rewards of doing so.

That someone has multiple jobs to 75 and you have none and both pay the same monthly fee is irrelevent. Items that drop being made Rare/Ex was not made to hurt RMT or lower prices, neither of which happened, but to reduce the heavy camping of some mobs. Making it harder to get the sellable versions increased the price.

Honestly, I think you're looking at this wrong...

I don't see how having the ability to change your EXP into stats(which is esentially what you do with merit points, outside of the new spells/abilities[Which the OP isn't asking for anyway]) before Lv75 should be frowned upon. I think it should be allowed, especially since players who have reached 75 on a job can still reap the benefits of (some) merits on other jobs.


Example:
Sure you're a 75BST but why should you have more STR than I can possibly attain when we're both Lv54Elvaan WARs... do more crits than I do, have more axe skill than I do (allowing you to do Rampage, while I can't)... etc.

I don't get why a player would want to spend xp this way... since before 70s EXP is gained slower, but if they want to, I feel they should be able to.

[Hamlet]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

Sure you're a 75BST but why should you have more STR than I can possibly attain when we're both Lv54Elvaan WARs... do more crits than I do, have more axe skill than I do (allowing you to do Rampage, while I can't)... etc.

Yeah, but if you spent your xp meritting, and you and the other war with the 75 job both started at lvl 54, you would end up lvl 54 with some more str and axe skill, and he would end up like lvl 60, with a whole crapload more str and especially more axe skill.

The only reason I could see this being at all useful is if you spend alot of time in lvl capped events, but in all other situations its far more efficient to just level up.

[Mhurron]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

Sure you're a 75BST but why should you have more STR than I can possibly attain when we're both Lv54Elvaan WARs... do more crits than I do, have more axe skill than I do (allowing you to do Rampage, while I can't)... etc.

Why? Because that BST took the time to get a job to 75 and you haven't yet. That's how rewards work.

[TenchiHawkwing]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

I think you must have just stopped reading there... or something. I even addressed that in my post.

"I don't get why a player would want to spend xp this way... since before 70s EXP is gained slower, but if they want to, I feel they should be able to."


EDIT: To the above poster; so you feel that if some guy was a Network Admin for 10 years, then decides he wants a change of pace, and goes into a whole other (unrelated) field, that he should be payed more than you because he worked his ass off as a NA?

It's basically the same thing. I understand that players should be rewarded for their work, and I think so to, but I feel if other WANT to waste their xp and be at the same level as you they should be able to, why discourage that? Explain that. You've yet to do so.

[Hamlet]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

"I don't get why a player would want to spend xp this way... since before 70s EXP is gained slower, but if they want to, I feel they should be able to."

No, I read that, but besides being able to get xp faster as a lvl 75 job, it's also possible for a lvl 54 job to get stat bonuses in a much more efficient way simply by lvling up. At lvl 75, you don't have that option anymore.

[TenchiHawkwing]

Re: Limited Merits at Player Discretion

True, and I wouldn't even be making my arguement if those bonuses didn't carry over into other jobs before Lv75.