SE, you must end this Bio-Dia holy war.

[Lasswyn]

It won't take long, really. Just write up a quick press release or statement or POL newslet or whatever the heck you wanna do, and explain to us all the inner workings of Bio and Dia, and how they interact. I can't argue with people anymore. It doesn't work.

Happened again last night, on my mule. A Rank 10 with (presumably) three jobs to 75, one of them RDM, arguing with me that Dia cancels Bio on mobs because "that's what it does to people in Ballista." (He also led four gobs to our camp in the dunes because he didn't zone after sheep song-ing one waaaay up at the top of the map. But who's keeping score?)

Obviously I can't rely on people like this to do their own scientific research, let alone read the research other people have already done, so just put us all out of our misery, SE, and spill those dang beans already.

Enough speculation. For the love of Altana, just make it official.

[Hamlet]

Re: SE, you must end this Bio-Dia holy war.

Ballista is different, from what I understand. This has been tested about a billion times in regular outside circumstances and Bio overwrites dia, but not vice-versa (the tests were done by:

Casting Dia then
Casting Bio
Waiting for the "The mob's dia effect wears off". It never shows up, but the bio one does

Casting Bio then
Casting Dia
Again, the Dia wearing message never shows, but the Bio one does.

It's a pretty easy test. If you're friend doesn't believe you, just challange them to try it on their own.

Don't quote me on the following part, but I'm 95% sure on it (it's not a big deal to me because I never cast bio in xp party and NEITHER SHOULD YOU!)

Cast Dia2 then
Cast Bio
The dia wears off message should show up, and the bio won't

Cast bio2 then
cast Dia2
Bio should wear off, but not dia (this means dia2 didn't overwrite bio2, in case that's not obvious)

Just to be super clear here, by "wearing off", I mean you see the message saying it has worn off. That means that it was active on the mob. When you cast dia or bio and don't see the wear off message, it means it was overwritten.

[Asir]

Re: SE, you must end this Bio-Dia holy war.

I have to agree with this. I am so sick and tired of going through these arguments as well. Every time there's an update, I end up arguing with Don't-Know-It-Alls that keep claiming Bio and Dia stack. Although for 2 years, they've been trying to convince me they became stackable two updates ago. I read through every update and I know SE wouldn't keep us in the dark if they did made these stackable.

Like Lasswyn, I would love it if SE ended the misery these arguments cause us.

[Hamlet]

Re: SE, you must end this Bio-Dia holy war.

I'd much rather them tell us what exactly affects enfeebles then this. Dia vs. Bio is conclusively testable, whereas the enfeebs are not.

btw, here's my approach to the whole thing in the Dunes. I just let them cast whatever the hell they want. For some reason this is a REALLY touchy subject for people, and the drama it inevitably causes isn't worth the benefit of having def down on the mob to me.

[Murphie]

Re: SE, you must end this Bio-Dia holy war.

I had a (terrible) RDM warp out mid-battle once because I dared to suggst that Bio overwrites Dia in party chat (I was WHM at the time). This was around level 60. >.>; Even though the rest of the party backed me up, she insisted that we were all idiots.

I don't think the disclaimer can be big or bold enough. Seriously - folks need to get the point that the spells work a certain way.

[Taskmage]

Re: SE, you must end this Bio-Dia holy war.

Obviously I can't rely on people like this to do their own scientific research, let alone read the research other people have already done, so just put us all out of our misery, SE, and spill those dang beans already.

Enough speculation. For the love of Altana, just make it official.

This is pretty much how I feel about everything in the game. I think it's absurd that players have to take samples across multiple stat ranges, races, and targets just to figure out what happens when you eat an omelette or a rice dumpling. For optimizing, like figuring out the ideal balance or str and attack or whatever, if they want to make people do the math to be the best in that regard then fine, but to ask that of players just to understand the basics of how their spells and items work is ridiculous. Hi-Potion should say "Restores 100 HP" and Pineapple juice should say "90 MP Refresh" right there on the bottle. That's not even getting started on hidden stats and latent effects. I don't play this game to do math. That's not fun for me. I guess maybe SE left all that information out to push strategy guide sales or something, but frankly all the missing information that requires internet access to become baseline compitent is the one thing I really hate about this game.

[/rant]

[Hamlet]

Re: SE, you must end this Bio-Dia holy war.

I guess maybe SE left all that information out to push strategy guide sales or something, but frankly all the missing information that requires internet access to become baseline compitent is the one thing I really hate about this game.

Imagine trying to do quests without the internet.

Typical NPC opening to a quest- "Hmm, you know, my sister could really use a shiny thing from a place where you can see the sky"

You- "Um, yeah, good luck with that."

[Bricklayer]

Re: SE, you must end this Bio-Dia holy war.

I don't play this game to do math. That's not fun for me.

I like doing the math.... ; ;

Actually, if they are going to make you do the math, then they should make the "hidden" parts less critical, so that even if you don't do the math, you can still play effectively and have fun!

[Hamlet]

Re: SE, you must end this Bio-Dia holy war.

I think for some people, figuring out stuff is fun. But when it's something crucial to your job that CANNOT be conclusively tested, you end up with something like this:

Just at least skim through this and then tell me that knowing how enfeebles work isn't more imporant than the Dia Bio thing

[Taskmage]

Re: SE, you must end this Bio-Dia holy war.

I have tons of respect for people like Icemage and Armando who will get out there and do tests on what modifies what and so on, and there's nothing wrong with enjoying that. The game is about discovery after all. I just think it's going way too far when you have to be one of those people or stand on their shoulders just to figure out the basics of what things do. Look at the esoteric skillchain system for instance. There's no way someone coming into the game would be able to figure out that information without looking it up online or in a guide. Even the old Tribune article merely gives the framework to derive the solution.

Anyway, I should probably shut up now since I'm derailing the thread. The scope of the thing is so huge I wouldn't really expect SE to fix it anyway, but maybe if they bring Bio and Dia into the light then that'll be the crack in the dam, so to speak.

[Lasswyn]

Re: SE, you must end this Bio-Dia holy war.

Just at least skim through this and then tell me that knowing how enfeebles work isn't more imporant than the Dia Bio thing

o.o Now THAT is a thing of beauty. Imagine if feebs got even a TENTH of the attention that Bio-Dia does! That would really be something. I wonder which set of mechanics SE would give us first...either would be cool.

Oh, and btw...

It's a pretty easy test. If you're friend doesn't believe you, just challange them to try it on their own.

*teeheehee* The "friend" part made me giggle. Never seen the guy before, hope never to see him again. Very hard-headed, and his English seemed plenty good 'nuff to fully grasp what I was saying.

[Hamlet]

Re: SE, you must end this Bio-Dia holy war.

*teeheehee* The "friend" part made me giggle. Never seen the guy before, hope never to see him again. Very hard-headed, and his English seemed plenty good 'nuff to fully grasp what I was saying.

Well, the next time it comes up, I suggest proposing the test to the person. Have them cast dia and bio and watch for "the effect wears off" message. Although you can't do it in the Dunes, it's better if you have access to Dia2, so you can see that Dia2 overwrites Bio.

[Lasswyn]

Re: SE, you must end this Bio-Dia holy war.

/salute Yessir! Will do, sir! ^o^


If they still seem......unreceptive......or just prickish...do you think I should throw a URL at them in the hopes that they'll get curious enough to look? I don't have windower so it'd have to be something short enough to type, like http://derekloffin.anifics.com/DiaBio/diabio.html ? It's cute enough to maybe grab their interest, and basic enough to tickle their brains a bit. Do you have anything better that's short, sweet, and to the point? All the learnings of my FFXI career I keep in a binder, and there's a few blank pages left for web referrals.

[Edit: Why words in the correct order I cannot put?]

[Hamlet]

Re: SE, you must end this Bio-Dia holy war.

I think that's a great URL if they are unresponsive to testing it (or saying something like "Well, lag could make me not see the message of dia wearing off, Dood."). It has big pictures and clearly shows proof.

In the end, though, I just let it go. I probably let too much go in the Dunes (like the blm casting flame spikes and bind constantly), but I just want to get the hell out of there with as little drama as possible lol.

[Bricklayer]

Re: SE, you must end this Bio-Dia holy war.

In the end, though, I just let it go. I probably let too much go in the Dunes (like the blm casting flame spikes and bind constantly), but I just want to get the hell out of there with as little drama as possible lol.

Currently trying to do this on my BLM... what a nightmare *sigh*