Consider Same-Sex Marriage

[Icemage]

Re: Consider Same-Sex Marriage

I have no opposition to same-sex marriage in real life.

Using marriage to protect the sanctity of procreation is a pretty thin reason these days; it's not like the world is in any immediate danger of depopulating, and it's not like you're pulling otherwise willing potential parents out of the gene pool either. I really think we as a society should probably shed such outdated views in light of modern circumstances.

Besides, if marriage were such an infallible institution, we wouldn't have such a high divorce rate and skyrocketing rate of single parenthood in the United States these days. Frankly, our societal pendulum has swung around to the point where cultural pressure is no longer holding up the concept of marriage. We as a society simply don't believe as much in the idea of marriage, which leads to many more failed marriages (I leave open the question of how many marriages in the past were "glued together" by societal pressure which has now vanished), and I see no reason to continue to attempt to prop up a decaying institution. If you believe marriage is right for you and it works for you, great. If you don't... then ok.

---

In-game? I'd abolish marriage altogether. If people want to make a commitment in-game, as mentioned earlier, the Castor/Pollux ring quest is a perfect way to do so, and is completely gender-nonspecific.

I don't personally care either way if people of the same gender in game want to get married. Same way that I don't care when people of the same gender want to get married. It's just pretend, people. Not real life.

Does that mean I think S-E should be presiding at official weddings (of either type?). Nope. I was quite surprised to see them even allow that much. But this whole issue is just one huge customer service nightmare for them, which is why same-sex marriage was probably not allowed in the first place.

Is the restriction silly? Absolutely.

Would it hurt things (from S-E's viewpoint) to allow same-sex marriage? You'd better believe it. Not because of any tangible reasons, but only because of the backlash of knee-jerk fear and loathing (as evidenced by the responses in this thread, for instance).


Icemage

[BurningPanther]

Re: Consider Same-Sex Marriage

Again, I ask: why not?

It's not "keeping it real" in any capacity to wanna believe that homosexuality dosen't have a place in the world, nor is it real to assume that the same shouldn't apply in an online gaming community.

I agree that it's unfair to assume that those against homosexuality are either closet homo or undeucated, they can be comfortable in their heterosexuality and be as educated as any scholar, they simply don't like the idea or concept of homosexuality, let alone it having a place in their world. But, if they don't feel the need to to apologize for their prejudice, then I have no need to apologize for thinking them to be jerks for their prejudice.

And I ask this thread stay open. The OP's question is as valid and serious as any of the others, prehaps even more so.

[safyre]

Re: Consider Same-Sex Marriage

As far as this post has gone, i thank you all for stating your opinion for or against. I didn't really think that this would turn into such a hott topic. I am gay IRL, but have no real reason to push my ideal Rl, to an in-game arena. I lovesome of the points made here, but I would like to state some things from me. First of all, i have lived in Japan, and i found the people there no more against homosexual people, and infact i found it a bit more friendly. The simple reason being that older japanese people do dislike gay ppl, but the younger generation has really turned Japan into a supercultural hub, bordering on superliberalism. Many points of the "norm" have been morphed into abnormality to a high level. While some of the society there is viewed as conservative, it is not reasonable to say that homosexuality is frowned up more there than it is here.

Secondly, there is a reason much more simple than the points stated here. I pay for a service such as this game, and i would like to have the ability to marry in-game in a way i choose. That has in no way left the world of fantasy, i am not married in real life, and if this country (US) continues the way it has the past 7 years, towards superchristian (though not really) superconservative ideals i may never be married.

Thank you again for all the reply, and also for listening to this post. If you wish to continue on the subject feel free, i will post again if someone says something i find interesting.

p.s.- please dont say anything to get this thread deleted, or ones own posts even.

[Mershiness]

Re: Consider Same-Sex Marriage

I don't see why people are saying that SE NOT allowing Same-Sex marriages in-game is a political statement. If anything, allowing them would be a political statement.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not homophobic at all. BUT, is it not only natural that a man marries a woman? In a fantasy world, do we really have to worry about it? There's nothing wrong with homosexuality, but to be blunt, it is a genetic mistake. Yes, I said it. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. Humans obviously are not MEANT to be homosexuals. But, some are, and there's nothing anyone can do, so on Earth, people should be accepting of that.

But Vana'diel is not Earth. It's fake. It's not supposed to rival the real world. I look around, I don't see any Catgirls or elves. I also see no black mages or anyone who can use healing arts. Mithras and magic exist in Vana'diel, not Earth. Homosexuals exist on Earth, not in Vana'diel.

Mmkay?

[Murphie]

Re: Consider Same-Sex Marriage

I don't see why people are saying that SE NOT allowing Same-Sex marriages in-game is a political statement. If anything, allowing them would be a political statement.

I don't think it's a political statement one way or the other. The marriages don't actually mean anything. They are fictional. So they have no relevance to real life.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not homophobic at all. BUT, is it not only natural that a man marries a woman? In a fantasy world, do we really have to worry about it? There's nothing wrong with homosexuality, but to be blunt, it is a genetic mistake. Yes, I said it. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. Humans obviously are not MEANT to be homosexuals. But, some are, and there's nothing anyone can do, so on Earth, people should be accepting of that.

This paragraph is confusing. You say you aren't homophobic (perhaps not in the dictionary definition of the word), but then you proceed to make several very biased and uninformed statments about them according to your view of things. It may be your truth, but it's not the truth.

Personally, I think wanting to marry anyone in a fantasy world is silly. But if you're going to allow it for some people, you should just allow it for everyone or no one. Putting restrictions on it is silly since all that does is impose some sort of false meaning to everything, when there really isn't any since, you know - fantasy.

But Vana'diel is not Earth. It's fake. It's not supposed to rival the real world. I look around, I don't see any Catgirls or elves. I also see no black mages or anyone who can use healing arts. Mithras and magic exist in Vana'diel, not Earth. Homosexuals exist on Earth, not in Vana'diel.

This is a fun point that a lot of people want to make. But unfortunately since real world people play these games, there is going to be a little bit of real life seeping into this fantasy world. I know several homosexual players, and many who RP their characters as such as well, regardless of their RL sexuality. If this were a static RPG with nothing more than the story presented by the developers, that would be one thing, but it's a persistent online world that is often affected by the real life people behind the characters that inhabit it. So it's not such a clear deliniation.

edit:

You know, I appreciate the fact that the OP wanted to ask this, as I think it's a perfectly valid question to ask, but I have to say that I'm disappointed in the tone that this entire thread has taken for the most part.

Discussions on matters of sexuality, politics, or religion are tough to keep civil. More often than not it just becomes and endless cycle of people repeating themselves (as I've found myself doing), and no one ever really comes to an agreement. The chances of someone convincing someone else to see things differently on such a hot button topic based merely on a few forum posts are pretty slim. It's a shame that things are like that, but here we are.

[Hamlet]

Re: Consider Same-Sex Marriage

I don't know if it's been brought up already in this thread, but it's a little silly to take a stand against gay marriage in a game which is basically built around killing things (and some of them, the beastmen, are definately sentient, and you can kill eachother in ballista). It's obviously not representative of anything in the real world.

That being said, Japanese culture is even more against gay marriage than we are (and we almost had an amendment against it in our f*cking constitution, and still might one day).

I don't know why people are against gay marriage in rl. I suspect it is because allowing them to officially marry would be seen as officially condoning it. Everyone says they aren't homophobic and don't have a problem with gay couples, but when it's time to really mean it (and what does marriage really mean, anyway, it's purely symbolic, besides the tax break), that's when their true beliefs come out.

One of my best friends in college was gay, or at least bi with his orientation heavily on the gay side. He was funny as hell and fun to be around. I've had a few gay friends, I guess it goes along with being open-minded and "artsy". The only problem I ever had with them was when they hit on me, since they know I'm straight, but hey you can't blame somebody for trying, and I would just say no and it would be over and we'd continue to be friends.

But ANYWAY, bottomline:

1. it's a game. Leave your bias at the door, please.

2. People are going to have a problem with it, and sometimes a very serious problem up to and including quitting. Also, SE is most likely going to have a problem with it because it's a Japanese company.

Nontheless, don't the homophobes in this thread understand why gay people would want to get married in the game when straight people can (and COME ON, a Cat lady and an androgeonous Galka can marry but not two hume males? WTF lol)