Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

[Raydeus]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

Please read my post again. I said it's an exaggeration. Yes, you can form a conventional party but compared to TP burns the exp will suck and you can forget invites to that kind of parties as a PLD. However, my point was, that when people believe it's faster to level another job from L1 to L75 and merit with it instead of trying to merit with their already L75 main job, something is seriously wrong.

So it really isn't about not being able to get invites, but about not being able to get Burn xp eh?

Seriously though. if those people think it's faster and more convenient to lvl a TP-burn job from 1-75 to get 5k xp more an hour (and this is the first time I ever heard about that happening) then let them, there are still plenty of people who play because they enjoy their job, SE can't change the players mentality, everyone can play the job they choose whenever they choose to.

Even if you nerf TP-burns all you'll do is force people to find another burn job, and if you push them too hard they will just quit the game.

Someone who doesn't enjoy party play and just gets into a party for the fastest xp will always jump on the fast-xp bandwagon regardless of what you do, the best course of action is to enhance party play so its closer to the efficiency of burn play really, without nerfing anyone.

All nerfs do is make the nerfed jobs unhappy, and it also affects the people who asked for the nerf in the first place. Simply because making a job weaker will make your party weaker when you party with them or when you need them.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

Hey you were the one who used the job lvl card, the moment you said "Do you even play Paladin, or are you just repeating something somebody said?". I just replied using that same card.

I mentioned nothing about job levels, I simply asked if you even played the job. You'd have to be blind to not notice the enhanced proc rate of shields after the update. It isn't possible to not notice something as big as that unless you just watch TV while playing, but that would probably make you a crappy Paladin, wouldn't it?

In my opinion, Paladins don't need anything outside of some sort of magic defensive trait or piece of equipment. Expanded uses for shields would be awesome, but it's not like we're hurting. The game has evolved in a different and new way and we all need to adjust. I'm not saying we all need to sub NIN, suck down Sushi and wear a Scorp Harness on a regular basis, but until SE figures out something solid that will actually balance things then there isn't a whole lot we can do outside of speculation and bickering about what needs to be nerfed and what doesn't.

[Raydeus]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

Actually the higher proc rate was mentioned in the release notes to the trait.

I was looking for this link:

In the April 18 update they point Shield Mastery and the higher blocking rate as separate things.

Shields have been altered in the following ways:

The chance of blocking with a shield in battle has been increased.
Shields now block more damage

And then after the WHM Bene upgrade they said:

The following features have been added to the paladin job:

Shield Mastery: Grants bonus TP when blocking an attack with a shield.
Auto Refresh: Gradually restores MP.

So while it appeared higher block rate was because of SM it really isn't, which I guess is why I don't notice any difference between RDM and PLD blocking rate.

(Although I'm sure the higher skill from PLD does help with mobs T and above but I rarely use a shield as a RDM when fighting those.)



[Edited pointless discussion]

[Hamlet]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

NO, because you're a RDM (Like myself) that do not want to lose a second tier utsu. What you posted above about TP burn is really off the mark. PLD can grip hate way better than a NIN can so you don't need more than 4 shadows (+8 if the recast is up by the time the 4 is down which is usually the case when you "prep cast" before every fight anyway)

I don't really understand what your saying here.

But I believe that having only one ustu with 4 shadows would make tp burning impossible. I think that's what alot of people want in this thread, but I don't.

I do like soloing as rdm/nin, but that's not why I'm arguing against nerfing utsu. Melee burns are the first chance that alot of these jobs have been given to finally get really great xp. They lfg for hours on end every day on their way to 70, and then finally it's payoff time.

As it stands now, tp burns work because nobody takes much damage. With only one utsu, a single AOE move will wipe out everyone's ability to cast utsu until the timer is up. That's going to be alot of damage, especially considering most of these jobs in melee burns aren't equipped for defense.

As to the other posts about improving shield, I don't care how it's achieved, but the point is that SE has to make it so PLD takes around the same damage as a Ninja. You can do it my way with a job specific trait or you can improve shield, but in the end, these two jobs HAVE to be equal as far as taking damage.

As far as jobs not invited to melee burns, that's a little extreme. Blus and cors can get in fine, as can many of the others. War/nin or mnk/nin is preferred above all, but there's only so many of them. The other jobs still do well.

But there's some jobs that don't get in at all, and that's why I think buffing pld is important. I still say a traditional party with a pld tank that can hold hate well could take these unwanted jobs and make use of them.

[DakAttack]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

I mentioned nothing about job levels, I simply asked if you even played the job. You'd have to be blind to not notice the enhanced proc rate of shields after the update. It isn't possible to not notice something as big as that unless you just watch TV while playing, but that would probably make you a crappy Paladin, wouldn't it?

I play Monster Hunter on my PSP while tanking, it's really not all that difficult.

Now, Monster Hunter is what's difficult. Chasing dragons around and trying to kill them while they're ignoring me. What's that all about?

[Macht]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

Before it starts getting to far out of hand Raydeus and Dirtyclown, be careful with the attacks to eachother. Making a point is one thing but attacking eachother is completly another and shouldn't be excersised here.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

I was looking for this link to show to dirtyclown.

In the April 18 update they point Shield Mastery and the higher blocking rate as separate things.

Oh shi- I misread patch notes, therefore I'm the worst PLD evar! Hmm..Point still stands, Shields got better after the update. You're still not the winRAR.

Were you watching the TV (or maybe you are blind?) when SE stated Shield mastery and higher blocking rate are two separate things? You really need to start thinking before talking so you stop making yourself look even more uninformed.

Crappy PLD... I guess this shows who's the crappy PLD instead.

Again, I'm the worst PLD ever because I misread something.

I play Monster Hunter on my PSP while tanking, it's really not all that difficult.

Now, Monster Hunter is what's difficult. Chasing dragons around and trying to kill them while they're ignoring me. What's that all about?

I was referring to the fact that he claimed to not notice any change in shield blocks. He'd either have to be incredibly unobservant and maybe a little biased toward a certain job combo, or he doesn't even pay attention to the screen.

Edit: Sorry Macht, it needed to be said.

Edited, some wording was no needed.

[Raydeus]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

[Edited pointless discussion]

Edited, comment only will surve to provoke more unnessissary attacks.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

Either that or I felt like being blunt. I even admitted I was wrong. Quit brown nosing. :3

[Macht]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

Don't care saw this coming, brown nosing won't work.

[Maju]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

I do like soloing as rdm/nin, but that's not why I'm arguing against nerfing utsu. Melee burns are the first chance that alot of these jobs have been given to finally get really great xp. They lfg for hours on end every day on their way to 70, and then finally it's payoff time.

You get exactly one extra DD slot in a TP burn party. A conventional party has a tank, one or two support jobs and the rest DD. A TP burn has one or two support jobs and the rest DD. How does that suddenly make a huge increase in invite rates?

[Hamlet]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

I think of a convential party as pld, whm, blm, rdm and 2 dd melee, because that's what i partied in for almost all of my career up until the advent of melee burns.

So, melee burns cut out the need for a tank and a blm. That's two more slots, or double as much. And I've melee burned with 5 melees and just me a few times (and it was really good)

[kuu]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

Burn parties are not a good thing. Sure, melees (well, warriors, ninjas and monks) get lots of party invites, great. Now what do we do with the rest?

BLM? No PT unless you find more of them for a mana burn (very rare).
PLD? So out of luck mate.
WHM? No luck, RDM is better.
THF? Can't SA or TA reliably, no go.
DRG? What?
SAM? WAR and MNK have better DoT and you can't SA reliably in a burn PT.
DRK? We need steady but high DoT, not spike damage!
BLU? Can't take a job that needs MP. They only slow you down.
PUP? lol
COR? BRD pulls faster and has better buffs. Pulling hate with a ranged attack sucks.

Basically you have to be MNK, WAR, RDM or BRD to be the popular choice end-game. And of course everyone subs NIN because it's broken enough to make tanks obsolete.

Yes, TP burns need to go. Anyone who defends them only does it because they want a slice of the godly exp. I doubt anyone honestly thinks they're ok.

Also, nerfing has to be done. Everyone have been buffed up so many times that the game has become too easy. Further buffing would only make things worse so balance has to be attained by nerfing.

Em...wha???

I get just as many burn pts with as a whm then as a war.

Heck Thfs do too, Cor's are great, sams are fine, etc etc etc.

It's pretty much more or less all the same, except regetablity pld right now.

If one thing ToAU is so easy to burn, you can interchange almost anyjob. Are you reallllllly meriting????

Blm's/mages have there super weak magic mobs, etc etc.

If anything I think ToAU xp monsters are made to be super easy per xp, that any DD job and mage job can do it.

At this point it's more of a who takes the camp spots first. I've never had a problem with almost any DD job filling in for the jaded War/nin (which I have one myself)

I do feel slightly sad for Pld meriting, but my LS Pld's always tend to go uli hunting for something for xp.

In this case it's Pld getting doing normal XP and LS duties isn't so bad when you have to sometimes litterly stake out a TP-burn camp site in TAoU.

I tihnk some people are blowing meriting waaaay out of proportion.

[Aeni]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

But I believe that having only one ustu with 4 shadows would make tp burning impossible. I think that's what alot of people want in this thread, but I don't.

It's a shared responsibility, live with it. Either you're seen as a:

(a) Selfish player that doesn't give a rat's ass about certain other job classes that are being left behind with this "abuse."

or

(b) You enjoy status quos and such can't be bothered with changes made to ensure the integrity and play balance of this game.

TP burns are not a new idea and no, they do not rely on /NIN to work effectively (Or at least not having to require every melee sub NIN) They've been around for a long time now. So you're saying that this is nerfing TP burn is utterly ridiculous.

All it does is bring about play balance, which was as neccessary as the changes made to an army of BLM ganging up on NM/HNMs. While the verdict is still out, this doesn't mean the buck stops with BLMs. I'm pretty sure SE has already taken notes down on other changes needed to be made and as such I wouldn't bet the farm that they won't ever make any more changes to utsu (either usage or otherwise)

[csBahamut]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

I would say if you are going to add something to PLD make it be a slightly altered version of Celes' ability to absorb spells. Say while it's in effect any spell damage the PLD would of recieved instead are healed 20% of what the damage would of been or something.

I thought that Runic would be a great ability for PLD to have to help balance taking magic damage. I've also thought a lot about how it could be implimented and stay balanced. The MP absorbed couldn't be too much or PLDs would be able to main heal themselves on casting mobs. That would alienate WHMs. The recast time couldn't be too low, this would make it overpowered. The duration for when spells could be cast would have to be low as well.

Here's what I've thought:
Job Ability: Runic Blade
Recast: 1-2 mins (meritable?)
Duration: 15-30 seconds (A Relic piece could increase the duration by 15 seconds)
Target: Self.
Weapon: Must be using a Sword for duration. (so no staff tanking with this)
Spells absorbed: Any damage dealing spells that targets the user.
MP Absorbed: 5-20% of MP cost of the spell.

SE would probably be much better at finding a balance of course.

As for the Utsusemi and /NIN things, those who don't see the problem don't because they don't want to, not because it doesn't exist. Of course, the problem is more complicated than simply nerfing Utsusemi or Dual Weild.

*EDIT*
Fixed Quote