Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

[Macht]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

Then why does the damage your bullets do increase as your skills go up? When all you're really doing is just getting better at aiming. And STR actually effects the amount of damage you do with bullets as well, I mean, if a three year old pulls at a .35 and shoots you with it, it's gonna hurt just as much as if Chuck Norris shot you with it.

Point being, not everything in the game makes sense always. But this is a really good idea of how to balance things out.

Skill and STR actually makes sense tough. Fire a gun with a lot of recoil your chances of hitting accuratly and doing severe damage at a distance is reduced. In this one it's more or less a debate of what's best to classify as, miss or reduced damage.

Say you are firing a rifle, if you move to much during the shot it can alter the direction of the shot. This is due to the gasses built behind the bullet so having the STR and skill to aim for vital parts makes sense that damage would increase. Because a shot that just breaks the surface though it'll hurt like hell is not something that'll kill you so it is small damage. Someone shoots a part of your ear off, ear is mostly cartilidge nothing vital in it, you'll bleed and it'll hurt but you'll recover from that better (with maybe some hearing loss) then you would a shot in the knee, stomach, head, etc...

Otherwise give a .35 to a three year old and stand like 20-30 feet away and one to Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris is likely to hit you in a more vital point more frequently then the three year old could.

Double Post Edited:

I do see how this makes sense. It still kinda goes along with my idea that a higher level PLD should be better at taking less damage with a shield block. Tying shield blocks to VIT would make a whole lot more sense.

I do think though that what you said about skill can lead to blocking magic. Since skill is realizing how to get yourself between the attack and yourself, the higher in skill you get, you should be able to learn how to do this with magic after a certain skill level.

And I also agree that the shield differenecs need to stay the same as they are now (as far as types go). No matter what changes (if any) SE makes to the shield, shield types should definitely have differences between them.

Which is why I stated that if they do add something for PLDs let it be something along Celes' (FFVI) ability to absorb spells for a small heal. Seriously to this they sort of have, Cover when used with the right equipment allows you to recieve MP in the amount of damage you received.

Use it for a self heal and you've gained something of a heal, just improve that in some way and you're set.

Also should mention that one of the PLD's equipment when using Cover allows them to defend another player of spell damage. So adding an ability to allow spell damage be a small heal has potential.

[Zamphire]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

Skill and STR actually makes sense tough. Fire a gun with a lot of recoil your chances of hitting accuratly and doing severe damage at a distance is reduced. In this one it's more or less a debate of what's best to classify as, miss or reduced damage.

Say you are firing a rifle, if you move to much during the shot it can alter the direction of the shot. This is due to the gasses built behind the bullet so having the STR and skill to aim for vital parts makes sense that damage would increase. Because a shot that just breaks the surface though it'll hurt like hell is not something that'll kill you so it is small damage. Someone shoots a part of your ear off, ear is mostly cartilidge nothing vital in it, you'll bleed and it'll hurt but you'll recover from that better (with maybe some hearing loss) then you would a shot in the knee, stomach, head, etc...

Otherwise give a .35 to a three year old and stand like 20-30 feet away and one to Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris is likely to hit you in a more vital point more frequently then the three year old could.

Good argument, I commend you. I did think about the movment thing but was hopeing no one would notice.

[Macht]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

Good argument, I commend you. I did think about the movment thing but was hopeing no one would notice.

I was a marksman before, I was rated as a Sharpshooter. So I have some confidence in knowing how a gun/rifle works. I've also done Archery before (Old style, not with the new bows basically giving you almost everything) as well so I'm aware of the strain that both have on your body.

Had been intrested in doing Kyudo, though no clue were I could go to get into that.

[Stiker]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

Which is why I stated that if they do add something for PLDs let it be something along Celes' (FFVI) ability to absorb spells for a small heal. Seriously to this they sort of have, Cover when used with the right equipment allows you to recieve MP in the amount of damage you received.

Use it for a self heal and you've gained something of a heal, just improve that in some way and you're set.

Also should mention that one of the PLD's equipment when using Cover allows them to defend another player of spell damage. So adding an ability to allow spell damage be a small heal has potential.

That's a hell of an idea. I can just imagine the kind of hate generation we could have if we had a "Runic" ability like Celes did. I've always said more than anything the biggest difference between PLD and NIN is magic damage they take. The more that this difference is balanced, the more the two jobs will be balanced.

[Macht]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

That's a hell of an idea. I can just imagine the kind of hate generation we could have if we had a "Runic" ability like Celes did. I've always said more than anything the biggest difference between PLD and NIN is magic damage they take. The more that this difference is balanced, the more the two jobs will be balanced.

The beauty of it is the idea is still within the the Finaly Fantasy series' realm, like most of the stuff in the game. So it is a very resonable request to ask for in PLDs.

[Raydeus]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

I was a marksman before, I was rated as a Sharpshooter. So I have some confidence in knowing how a gun/rifle works. I've also done Archery before (Old style, not with the new bows basically giving you almost everything) as well so I'm aware of the strain that both have on your body.

Had been intrested in doing Kyudo, though no clue were I could go to get into that.

[off-topic]

Can you say Quincy?

[/off-topic]

[Stiker]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

The beauty of it is the idea is still within the the Finaly Fantasy series' realm, like most of the stuff in the game. So it is a very resonable request to ask for in PLDs.

Very true indeed. And the more I think about it the more I am in love with this idea. Just think about the endgame possibilities! Since spamming Spirits Within is no longer such a great option for us with the new patch, a Runic ability would be awesome! For instance, a group of PLD in an alliance could have a "Runic order" like RDM & DRKs have a stun order.

Even if this ability is on (and probably should be on) a large recast timer, it could quite literally save a whole alliance from wiping from a powerful AoE spell--if the whole AoE can be absorbed that is. This could also save the NINs shadows if they are tanking as well, allowing us to work as a team to help keep them alive.

I think the possibilites are endless, and like you said, it's a well known ability in the Final Fantasy realm. Can I now make my offical plea to SE to give PLDs Runic? ^^

[Macht]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

Very true indeed. And the more I think about it the more I am in love with this idea. Just think about the endgame possibilities! Since spamming Spirits Within is no longer such a great option for us with the new patch, a Runic ability would be awesome! For instance, a group of PLD in an alliance could have a "Runic order" like RDM & DRKs have a stun order.

Even if this ability is on (and probably should be on) a large recast timer, it could quite literally save a whole alliance from wiping from a powerful AoE spell--if the whole AoE can be absorbed that is. This could also save the NINs shadows if they are tanking as well, allowing us to work as a team to help keep them alive.

I think the possibilites are endless, and like you said, it's a well known ability in the Final Fantasy realm. Can I now make my offical plea to SE to give PLDs Runic? ^^

Well whole AoE being absorbed is a little overpowering, but syphoning off a chunk of it is reasonable.

Double Post Edited:

[off-topic]

Can you say Quincy?

[/off-topic]

What he's done Archery before?

[Stiker]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

Well whole AoE being absorbed is a little overpowering, but syphoning off a chunk of it is reasonable.

You are probably right on that. At least being able to take out a chunck will still probably stop a wipe. Here's also another thing I was thinking about a Runic ability: Would you think it better if we recovered MP or HP?

HP is more faithful to the orginal way the ability was used, but another way to regain MP could be beneficial as well. I'd like to know your thoughts on this.

[Macht]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

You are probably right on that. At least being able to take out a chunck will still probably stop a wipe. Here's also another thing I was thinking about a Runic ability: Would you think it better if we recovered MP or HP?

HP is more faithful to the orginal way the ability was used, but another way to regain MP could be beneficial as well. I'd like to know your thoughts on this.

Would have to study the effects on that more, but I think it would be more fair for it to be HP. Because if you absorbing this damage basically the amount your are taking is being removed completly. If it was to restore MP not only did you reduce a devistating attack, but now you're getting MP to start smashing at the mob with Flash or cure others which kinds of starts to intrude on WHM.

Probably the better debate is if Runic should grant HP or TP. That way with it granting TP you still can use a WS for hate control but won't be intruding as much on the WHMs field of healing. Getting back MP is useful but if you start getting back MP more frequently then the mages it gives you to much power in that respect.

[Corthaemus]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

For everyone that suggested a nerf of any kind, you're heading in the wrong direction. For everyone that suggested a job should be made stronger, you're heading in the right direction. SE's going to keep nerfing the jobs until you basically can't do anything at all, and the game will cease to be fun.

Also, regarding the TP burns in Afghanistan... There's no reason to complain about them. For the most part, they're no longer available. All the areas where the first pts went for the initial 15k/hr are now swamped with pts. Honestly, if I were them, I wouldn't have said a damn thing...but nooooo people like to brag. So now everyone wants a piece of the pie, and the insurgence of pts means a low supply of mobs. The last 5 TP burns I was in couldn't pull more than 8k due to lack of mobs. Soon, things will return to the way they were with all jobs having a 'mostly' equal chance of getting a pt.

[Macht]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

For everyone that suggested a nerf of any kind, you're heading in the wrong direction. For everyone that suggested a job should be made stronger, you're heading in the right direction. SE's going to keep nerfing the jobs until you basically can't do anything at all, and the game will cease to be fun.

Also, regarding the TP burns in Afghanistan... There's no reason to complain about them. For the most part, they're no longer available. All the areas where the first pts went for the initial 15k/hr are now swamped with pts. Honestly, if I were them, I wouldn't have said a damn thing...but nooooo people like to brag. So now everyone wants a piece of the pie, and the insurgence of pts means a low supply of mobs. The last 5 TP burns I was in couldn't pull more than 8k due to lack of mobs. Soon, things will return to the way they were with all jobs having a 'mostly' equal chance of getting a pt.

LOL, I'm sitting more in the middle of that. I do see areas were improvements are needed for some jobs but I do see some jobs that's just blindingly obvious they are still to strong. No matter how you slice it reducing damage to 0 reliably and very frequently is just way to powerful to be allowing every tom, dick, and harry to possess.

[Stiker]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

Would have to study the effects on that more, but I think it would be more fair for it to be HP. Because if you absorbing this damage basically the amount your are taking is being removed completly. If it was to restore MP not only did you reduce a devistating attack, but now you're getting MP to start smashing at the mob with Flash or cure others which kinds of starts to intrude on WHM.

Probably the better debate is if Runic should grant HP or TP. That way with it granting TP you still can use a WS for hate control but won't be intruding as much on the WHMs field of healing. Getting back MP is useful but if you start getting back MP more frequently then the mages it gives you to much power in that respect.

That's the way I initally felt as well. However, I starting thinking more about the orignial ability and I was wrong. In FF VI, Celes was giving MP if Runic was used and not MP. So I guess if we wanted to stay faithful to the orginial ability, we would be given MP.

I think as long as the MP given back isn't too much it should be ok. From what I remember in FF VI, you really never got a ton of MP from using Runic anyways, even if the spell was powerful. I think the main focus of the ability should be to absorb the magic, the MP would simply be icing on the cake.

[Macht]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

That's the way I initally felt as well. However, I starting thinking more about the orignial ability and I was wrong. In FF VI, Celes was giving MP if Runic was used and not MP. So I guess if we wanted to stay faithful to the orginial ability, we would be given MP.

I think as long as the MP given back isn't too much it should be ok. From what I remember in FF VI, you really never got a ton of MP from using Runic anyways, even if the spell was powerful. I think the main focus of the ability should be to absorb the magic, the MP would simply be icing on the cake.

Yeah, that's resonable too. Say a 5% MP return or something and say the absorb on spells is like 25% or 50% of it. Though a work around that I just realized is make it TP that way the PLD gets the MP restore only if they have Chivalry. Adds more cohesion among their abilities.

To that the TP returned could be the direct % amount that they absorbed. So if they absorb 25% of the damage they get a 25% TP return, or if Chivalry works how I think would be a 8.3% MP restore so it seems to work.

[ValisOfValefor]

Re: Status of the Balance of Defense-centered Jobs

For everyone that suggested a nerf of any kind, you're heading in the wrong direction.

Well, Utsusemi definatly needs a nerf in some form, why becuase this game has become so increadibly dependant on it (and by what it says in your information Corthaemus your a prime exapmle of this), nearly everytime someone plays Warrior/anythingotherthanninja this comes up.

"Do you have /nin"

Like ninja is the only sub job, the only sub job that is effective for warrior. It getting to the point in which I'm beggining to think that over half of Vana'diel is scarred to even take even the slightest amount of damage

Im not really sure how to make it more even for ninja and paladin. Other than by nerfing Utsu in some way, even just the /nin

Because utsu is the blood of nearly every job out there.

So many jobs would be "hurt" by this, but in truth all it would do would seperate the good player, from the bad.