Improving Auto-Translate?

[PTT]

Question: Would the development team consider taking requests for additional phrases to be added to the auto-translator function, and adding help-text to auto-translator phrases that explain, in detail, the exact meaning of these phrases?

Example:

{Reward} Help Text: Job Ability - Beastmaster
{Pull Back} Help Text: Battle Tactics - Move backward a small ways.
{Initiate} Help Text: Crafting - Guild Rank

Also, there are currently gaps in the translator database for common terms that need to be explained, should a multi-language party hope to have a definite strategy. This makes it difficult to listen to party members of another language, if you are not familiar with the language.

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Improving Auto-Translate?

Awesome idea. I think having play chosen auto-translate phrases and words would be nice

[Mhurron]

Re: Improving Auto-Translate?

Do you know how many times I've scratched my head trying to come up with a way that didn't sound rude to tell a Japanese party that I'm turning down their invite because I accepted another seconds before. I don't think I ever did and I'm sure what I sent back sounded rude.

The biggest problem is that the auto-translator needs to still be simple words or no more then one or two words so that it is still simple enough to string them together to create a phrase that can be relatively quickly understood.

[Sirius]

Re: Improving Auto-Translate?

After two years I thought they would have added more. They mostly get to the point, not always.

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Improving Auto-Translate?

Do you know how many times I've scratched my head trying to come up with a way that didn't sound rude to tell a Japanese party that I'm turning down their invite because I accepted another seconds before. I don't think I ever did and I'm sure what I sent back sounded rude.

The biggest problem is that the auto-translator needs to still be simple words or no more then one or two words so that it is still simple enough to string them together to create a phrase that can be relatively quickly understood.

/t Whoever <r> {Invite to join party} #2. {I'm sorry. I'm busy now.} @PT #1 {Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.}

[ChocoboBunny]

Re: Improving Auto-Translate?

how about doing what i do. Well in case of japanese players I use www.google.com type in "japanese phrases" and click the first link. Gives you a variety of different phrases and a few words. It helps me a lot, and the japanese players enjoy my company. As for other languages you can search for what ever language. But the only downfall is you have to have a second pc/laptop for this to work. Ya I know Ive been playing since NA release, SE has barely added enough phrases to complete a sentence. Oh well... Where is that Chocobo UPdate

[Feba]

Re: Improving Auto-Translate?

Do you know how many times I've scratched my head trying to come up with a way that didn't sound rude to tell a Japanese party that I'm turning down their invite because I accepted another seconds before. I don't think I ever did and I'm sure what I sent back sounded rude.

The biggest problem is that the auto-translator needs to still be simple words or no more then one or two words so that it is still simple enough to string them together to create a phrase that can be relatively quickly understood.

I would've just said "{I'm Sorry}PT GOT".

Most JP will understand basic english.

[Murphie]

Re: Improving Auto-Translate?

I still think SE asking the player base what kind of words and phrases they think would be useful in the auto-translator would be a step in the right direction. While most of us are able to kind of muddle through our explanations when communicating with someone who doesn't understand our language, and whose language we don't understand, there are always those times when a few more options translator-wise would make all the difference.

Good suggestion.

[Pillowcase]

Re: Improving Auto-Translate?

I think they should add in alot more emotes, as well.

So many that you could practically communicate using them alone.

You can almost do that in WoW with players of the opposite alighnment.

More emotes and more auto-translate would make things alot more convenient.

Good suggestion.

Why the hell isn't there a /thank !?!?!?!

[kuu]

Re: Improving Auto-Translate?

Emote's ftw.

But really, auto-translate is a very unique attempt at an age old problem.

It is very much akin to pliot speak in which even if everyone uses english, accents are so bad, that you have to rely on set-phrases that everyone understands.

Too bad there isn't much study in this field from linguistics specialist, to streamline auto-translate(which is quite japanese input ideal[for those familar with how kanji is typed]).

The other option is a massive community project to "standardize" auto-translate, where both ffxi representives working with the community create an almost militaristic short code. It's similar to our ffxi community <party> <do you need it?> lingo, which you can send to JP/NA/EU.

It's maybe worth it with their push for Community messageboard.

Definitelly it would need a FFxi representive organization. Between developers, community, linguists and definitelly mentors.

[Bricklayer]

Re: Improving Auto-Translate?

Emote's ftw.
The other option is a massive community project to "standardize" auto-translate, where both ffxi representives working with the community create an almost militaristic short code. It's similar to our ffxi community <party> <do you need it?> lingo, which you can send to JP/NA/EU.

It's maybe worth it with their push for Community messageboard.

Definitelly it would need a FFxi representive organization. Between developers, community, linguists and definitelly mentors.

Yep... It would be neat if we had a few more Subjects, Objects, and Verbs, and maybe a few prepositions. There also seem to be a few gaps in the proper nouns (can't think of them off the top of my head, though).

It would be near impossible to provide a 1-to-1 translation from English-Japanese and vise versa, but a beefed-up, albeit spartan vocabulary would help. Of course, this would increase your scrolling time after hitting Tab (for PC users).

[tdh]

Re: Improving Auto-Translate?

This is something I've really wanted. I use the Auto Translator as much as I can, but I usually play during a time when there are a lot of JPN parties going on, so I've had to whether I wanted to or not. From Lv.52 to Lv.64 I think I had nothing but JPN parties!

But you're right, there things that would be very helpful if they were there. Some new phrases, or some new blurbs like the, "I'm sleepy," or "I have things to do," would be very useful. Another thing that would be useful is something posted some place that tells us exactly what's in the Auto Translator. I'm sure there are some things you may use now on a regular basis that you had no idea was there until somebody randomly used it.

An example that comes to mind is when I get a /tell asking if there are any spaces left, and if I want a <job>. I know there's something that says the party is full, or something to that extent, but all I can think to do is, {I'm sorry.} {Full Attack!}

How many THFs and RNGs have you partied with that have a macro that says {Fishing} <t> blah blah blah? We need something added that allows us to communicate this, or ask who's going to be the Pull Monkey as I call it.

Another one I would really like would be an {On the way} or something along those lines. You're farming while you're waiting for a party invite. You agree to join a party and start your way to the {Gather together} point and you can't really tell them you're on the way, or a very articulate ETA. {Gather together} {Understood} {Short time} 5 min is about the best I could ever come up with.

Now for all we know, there are things in the translator that would better serve us, we just haven't found it, or don't know what to start searching for.

[kuu]

Re: Improving Auto-Translate?

This is something I've really wanted. I use the Auto Translator as much as I can, but I usually play during a time when there are a lot of JPN parties going on, so I've had to whether I wanted to or not. From Lv.52 to Lv.64 I think I had nothing but JPN parties!

But you're right, there things that would be very helpful if they were there. Some new phrases, or some new blurbs like the, "I'm sleepy," or "I have things to do," would be very useful. Another thing that would be useful is something posted some place that tells us exactly what's in the Auto Translator. I'm sure there are some things you may use now on a regular basis that you had no idea was there until somebody randomly used it.

An example that comes to mind is when I get a /tell asking if there are any spaces left, and if I want a <job>. I know there's something that says the party is full, or something to that extent, but all I can think to do is, {I'm sorry.} {Full Attack!}

How many THFs and RNGs have you partied with that have a macro that says {Fishing} <t> blah blah blah? We need something added that allows us to communicate this, or ask who's going to be the Pull Monkey as I call it.

Another one I would really like would be an {On the way} or something along those lines. You're farming while you're waiting for a party invite. You agree to join a party and start your way to the {Gather together} point and you can't really tell them you're on the way, or a very articulate ETA. {Gather together} {Understood} {Short time} 5 min is about the best I could ever come up with.

Now for all we know, there are things in the translator that would better serve us, we just haven't found it, or don't know what to start searching for.

The most obvious answer is that English isn't what you call a very intuitive language. Neither is japanese, but english is tricker in terms of regularity.

When you make fragment sentences, very often you can have many possible meanings in japanese, and vise versa.

The whole sentence placement alone screws it up. English is object-verb-subject. Japanese is object-subject-verb.

There is no easy way to get across meaning except from experiance or learn japanese. Something as simple as your example, should be reorganized to

{short time} @5 {Gather together} {please}

I dislike long sentence-wide autotranslate, because they're too restricting, but then I understand japanese structure better and thus want more flexiblity. Those who have no idea, would want more sentences instead of phrases. A double-edged sword.

The only real way would be to have auto-translate bootcamp so to say. And hat takes SE+ community effort.

If SE can read it, my personal idea would be an NPC teacher script that has been standardize with help of a linguist and the community needs working together.

A simple 3 page NPC script for both JP and NA that basically tells players to use the same auto-translate phrases in every day vanadiel life would go a long way.

Then you can make vol2, vol3, etc if with more feedback.

[Draco Dagon]

Re: Improving Auto-Translate?

Emote's ftw.

But really, auto-translate is a very unique attempt at an age old problem.

It is very much akin to pliot speak in which even if everyone uses english, accents are so bad, that you have to rely on set-phrases that everyone understands.

Too bad there isn't much study in this field from linguistics specialist, to streamline auto-translate(which is quite japanese input ideal[for those familar with how kanji is typed]).

The other option is a massive community project to "standardize" auto-translate, where both ffxi representives working with the community create an almost militaristic short code. It's similar to our ffxi community <party> <do you need it?> lingo, which you can send to JP/NA/EU.

It's maybe worth it with their push for Community messageboard.

Definitelly it would need a FFxi representive organization. Between developers, community, linguists and definitelly mentors.

I don't see why they couldn't do that...

This is something I've really wanted. I use the Auto Translator as much as I can, but I usually play during a time when there are a lot of JPN parties going on, so I've had to whether I wanted to or not. From Lv.52 to Lv.64 I think I had nothing but JPN parties!

But you're right, there things that would be very helpful if they were there. Some new phrases, or some new blurbs like the, "I'm sleepy," or "I have things to do," would be very useful. Another thing that would be useful is something posted some place that tells us exactly what's in the Auto Translator. I'm sure there are some things you may use now on a regular basis that you had no idea was there until somebody randomly used it.

An example that comes to mind is when I get a /tell asking if there are any spaces left, and if I want a <job>. I know there's something that says the party is full, or something to that extent, but all I can think to do is, {I'm sorry.} {Full Attack!}

How many THFs and RNGs have you partied with that have a macro that says {Fishing} <t> blah blah blah? We need something added that allows us to communicate this, or ask who's going to be the Pull Monkey as I call it.

Another one I would really like would be an {On the way} or something along those lines. You're farming while you're waiting for a party invite. You agree to join a party and start your way to the {Gather together} point and you can't really tell them you're on the way, or a very articulate ETA. {Gather together} {Understood} {Short time} 5 min is about the best I could ever come up with.

Now for all we know, there are things in the translator that would better serve us, we just haven't found it, or don't know what to start searching for.

Indeed, there should definitely be an actual {Pulling} auto-translation.


What I'm tired of though is not being able to auto-translate items I've not seen before. For instance, {Scorpion Harness} because in-game I've seen it, but could not auto-translate Gungnir (sp?) because I've not 'seen' it in-game.

[Ryddr]

Re: Improving Auto-Translate?

Another thing that would be useful is something posted some place that tells us exactly what's in the Auto Translator. I'm sure there are some things you may use now on a regular basis that you had no idea was there until somebody randomly used it.

Now for all we know, there are things in the translator that would better serve us, we just haven't found it, or don't know what to start searching for.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/index.php/Auto-Translator

Though we pretty much do use all of the useful ones, one of the very useful ones (extremely useful for merit PTs) is the {Defeat this one first!} phrase, but I hardly ever see it utilized.