Two questions for SE

[Evion]

The level sync was a great addition for the player. I hope to see more ideas come to life that are advantage to the player.

Two things have always bugges me about FFXI. I've always wanted to Why, and If they'll ever change them.

Without going in-depth...
1. Why can players not cast and run, but mobs can?
2. Why is it that a mob can hit you with a physical attack from 20 feet away and players can't?

[Solymir]

Re: Two questions for SE

I thought most if not all mobs in the game have to stop running in order to cast spells, and that if you are able to anticipate fast enough, or if the spell has a long casting time, you can sometimes run out of range. The two examples that come to mind are goblins (because who hasn't had to fight 1000's of these, & occasionally run away) and Kirin (because when he stops melee actually get a chance to wail on him, thinking of the kite method here).

edit: I would love an answer to #2 as well. That has always bugged the crap out of me.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Two questions for SE

Mobs have theoretically the same restrictions on casting/moving and attack range. There are simply two caveats that give mobs the upper hand in those areas:

1) The AI doesn't make mistakes about running/casting. When the AI decides to cast, it stops the mob's movements at the exact right moment before casting. The only way you can get a movement-based interrupt on mob casting is with a knockback-causing attack, I believe.

2) All FFXI connections suffer from some amount of latency/lag. While the more traffic there is to convey (e.g. crowded areas) the more lag you get, even in ideal conditions there is still a minimum round-trip latency based just on network topology. The client tries to do a certain amount of second-guessing and fuzziness to representing data to help compensate for this, which is why you sometimes see players or mobs walk through walls, fall off a cliff and then run back up it, etc. Because of this, the mob is actually in-range to attack you before you see it get in range; also, as far as the server's concerned, you are always farther away from a mob you're pursuing, and closer to a mob you're fleeing from, than it appears on your screen. This is the same as when you're on /follow and see your character stay right on top of someone, while to the other person you appear to be staying around 5' behind them while they are moving.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Two questions for SE

#2 pisses me off! So doing a ZNM and this:

-----------------
l=========l
l=========l
l=========l
l=========l X
l=========l
l=========l
l=========l
------------------
...........O

So I'm O and the mob is X and I'm CLEARLY around the other end of the building but the mob that is BOUND does a fire attack THROUGH THE BUILDING and kills me. But try to cast on the mob from where I am or use a ranged attack and UNABLE TO SEE.....

[Zoryn]

Re: Two questions for SE

@ Luna
I don't think #2 has anything to do with lag.
Look at GrandMom's diagram...That pretty much proves it doesn't.
o:

[MrMageo]

Re: Two questions for SE

1- I have seen mobs cast while moving but usually it is faster spells so I blame that on lag. Longer spells they usually have to stop.

2- I am more interested in knowing. Why when a mob is moving around and your face is glued to its ass can you not hit it, you get the out of range message, yet your getting a face full of dingleberries. Yet when you run from a mob they never seem to have to stop swinging or wait for you to stand still.

[Ziero]

Re: Two questions for SE

Actually Lunaryn is 100% correct on both accounts. The Server is seeing things differently then the players, so this is the situation that occurs. As anyone who has ever had that slow disconnect problem would know, everything around you stops, but you're still able to move. Yet when you finally d/c and come back you'll be in the place where you first started to lose connection. No matter how far away you go when your connection goes down, the server still sees you in a specific spot.

And the only mobs who can cast and run are the ones who have instant cast spells.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Two questions for SE

@ Luna
I don't think #2 has anything to do with lag.
Look at GrandMom's diagram...That pretty much proves it doesn't.
o:

That's actually a separate issue. "Unable to see" is as far as I can tell a purely client-side restriction, and as such, only applies to players. I suspect if you used a third-party tool you could stop that and cast/ra through walls without pos-hacking at all. It's also broken enough that if you can get your camera positioned just right, you may or may not be able to act regardless of the obstruction. This is highly dependent on the terrain and your position and is hard to replicate with any consistency, but the fact that it happens at all points to this being a purely client-side restriction.

What I'm talking about in #2 are a series of issues where players/mobs are not really (as far as the server is concerned) where they appear to be to the client.

[Armando]

Re: Two questions for SE

Yeah, Lunaryn is right, and both questions are essentially non-issues.

2- I am more interested in knowing. Why when a mob is moving around and your face is glued to its ass can you not hit it, you get the out of range message, yet your getting a face full of dingleberries. Yet when you run from a mob they never seem to have to stop swinging or wait for you to stand still.

The cause has been answered, but the solution is stupidly simple: unlock from the mob and run past it.

[Zoryn]

Re: Two questions for SE

Yeah, Lunaryn is right, and both questions are essentially non-issues.The cause has been answered, but the solution is stupidly simple: unlock from the mob and run past it.

Right. Because that TOTALLY works.
:P

[Armando]

Re: Two questions for SE

You obviously haven't tried it.

[Zoryn]

Re: Two questions for SE

You obviously haven't tried it.

Yes. I have.
I still get hit.

[Armando]

Re: Two questions for SE

My apologies, I made the wrong assumption. You totally didn't read the problem I was providing a solution for.

[KingOfZeal]

Re: Two questions for SE

I've personally found that running past the mob (and having it follow you) greatly reduces how often you get hit. If you're skilled enough and use the environment to your advantage, you can even have the mob get far enough behind you to not hit you at all. Most often you can't do this, but if you're going to be hit anyway, there's no reason to make it less frequently.

As far as hitting it when it's running, do as Armando said... unlock and run in front of it. This is especially useful in those low levels when people don't realize this and go around chasing mobs with their weapon drawn. You don't even need to waste any MP to get a claim.

[DakAttack]

Re: Two questions for SE

Collision detection is client-side, so if you're bumping up against an enemy it's because his physical position differs from his actual. You're receiving his position at one rate, while sending yours and your attack at another. When the server is updated of your position it checks it against the enemy's and finds you're no where near each other.

Unlocking and running past it really is the easiest method for catching up. If you're running away your best bet is to wrap its path-finding up around enviromental objects like trees.