Can players' interests and needs be balanced?

[Malacite]

Re: Can players' interests and needs be balanced?

> _ > if anything Seigan needs a boost. Way the hell too random to be reliable. Idk how many times I've nearly died because the stupid thing only absorbed 1 or 2 hits and then WHAM mob WS...

The cure potency idea is pretty neat, but SE would have to give it to PLD as well IMO (anything to make them less refresh dependent please!)

I just think that it's still pretty unbalancing that /WHM is so good compared to other /Mage subs. Either make them all good, or make them all suck SE. It'd be nice if they'd uncap nukes too. Then both WHM and BLM would gain a nice chunk of endurance. I mean shit, that's how it's always worked in FF games, and just because this is an MMO is not a good enough reason to change this.

On the matter of SMN, SE's stated before that they don't like the current trends of SMN and want to make them keep their avatars out more. (this was said around the time of last fan fest I think. Can't find the link to it on POL for the life of me. Of course, this was also from the same list that promised a Scythe boost...)

As usual, they're taking their sweet ass time with it, but hopefully it'll be good once it comes around. And contrary to what others did in FFX, I used Aeons quite liberally :P and I much prefer my idea for fixing SMN which involves using /WHM to boost ward pacts, and /BLM to boost Rage Pacts (at least magical ones; maybe /WAR for physical and let the SMN melee o. O ?)

There's no reason for SMN not to main heal, I simply object to being a second WHM and rarely using avatars except for the odd MB or Buff. I think healing the PT though blood pacts (or simply leaving carby out to main heal?) would be much more interesting as opposed to being just another cure battery.

It's not the curing, it's the utter lack of avatar related fun :3

[Akashimo]

Re: Can players' interests and needs be balanced?

In other words Malacite, you'd want avatars output to reflect the subjob of the summoner similar to the way a Dragoon's Wyvern does for a Dragoon?

[Karinya]

Re: Can players' interests and needs be balanced?

That's why it's better to fix SMN instead of fiddling with /WHM or healing magic. I understand what some you who advocate changing healing magic want, but honestly you'd get much better boost to WHM main if you just nerf Seigan/Hasso and Utsusemi, which unfortunately will still leave less room for SMN mains in parties.

There's no need to nerf Hasso imo, it's already limited by your ability to shed hate. Even a DRG with two hate-reducing JAs has to be careful of their excessive damage output if they keep Hasso on all the time. They may be adjusting the str and dex formulas again anyway (In hindsight adjusting those right after adding hasso was a mistake: hasso was doing plenty to help 2h users on its own.) Keep grips and hasso as they are and tone down str and dex a little, and 2h can be reasonably balanced.

Seigan I haven't seen much of yet, so I can't really comment on whether or not it's too good. But Utsusemi, and especially subbed Utsusemi, does really need a nerf. (Which is nothing players haven't been saying for years, of course. SE either disagrees, or hasn't figured out a way to deal with the problem yet.)

I think it would leave more room for SMN mains in parties, though: the obvious response to the party taking more damage is to actually have more than one person that can heal in the party (e.g. rdm+whm, rdm+smn, whm+smn with a brd or cor puller). When you do that SMN can make a lot more use of their BPs and not be tied to curespam, and it also increases the demand for jobs that can help out with healing in the first place.

[Ziero]

Re: Can players' interests and needs be balanced?

As far as I can tell, the reason why /whm is so much more powerful in a pt then any other mage sub is because it is more useful and needed then any other mage sub. If /blm could nuke as good as blm, who would make use of it? Drks? They already have strong elemental skills, but they suffer from lower tier spells. Rdm? They're the opposite, with lower skill and higher tiers, yet nuke better then Drks. Smn? Still not helping the main job do it's 'main job'. Any melee class? Lol, just lol. Whm sub is so powerful because it is useful and needed. It takes one main healing job and helps out at least 3 other classes fill a role *every party needs*. Blm sub could never do that. There's also the fact that there are other spells that are effective regardless of skill level, namely Dispel and Stun, which can be cast from a subjob and still work effectively. Nerfing /whm will not help anyone.

Also, to those of you who say Smn should be played the way it was in other games, well I say *it is* played the way it was in other games. It's used as a cannon, pointed and aimed at a target, and fired at will to deal massive damage. And from what I can see, dropping a WS a minute without the need for TP *while* buffing a pt *and* being able to main heal is certainly a good thing. Especially at endgame or during BC+Boss fights where Smn is one of the best *damage dealing jobs* you can have.

The problem isn't Smn being a main healer, it's Smn being the *only* healer in a Pt. In which cases that's because of a bad set up then a problem with the class. Though I will completely agree that some BPs, especially some of the buffs, are entirely too weak. Ifrit's Warcry should give a bigger Att up and last longer, Rolling Thunder should give pt Shock spikes/En-thunder that's actually worth a damn, Hastga should last as long as regular haste and cost slightly less MP and so forth. And their DD BPs should be based on Smn skill, Avatar TP, Int and MAB, not subjob.

[Malacite]

Re: Can players' interests and needs be balanced?

In other words Malacite, you'd want avatars output to reflect the subjob of the summoner similar to the way a Dragoon's Wyvern does for a Dragoon?

Well it's one way to do things. At the very least Summoning Magic Skill needs to have a much more profound impact. I'd also like to see each avatar have unique stats (e.g. Titan can tank since he's earth element) but that's a bit more complex and I doubt SE would get off their asses and do this. What I was suggesting above was simply a boost to those pacts based on sub, not that they derive their effectiveness from it similar to how BLU doesn't need /WHM, but benefits greatly from it for their healing spells. (The extra MND and healing skill pump up Wild Carrot, Healing Breeze and Magic Fruit quite a lot)

There are other things that really piss me off that aren't very FF in flavor either, and for a game that's apparently based heavily off of 1 2 and 3, well that's just wrong.

I'm referring of course to the 6 primary nukes. Why is stone on the lowest end and thunder the highest? Why aren't they all equal damage, MP and casting time with bonuses and penalties applying based on the target's weaknesses or resistances like in every single other FF and most RPGs in general? For that matter, why are there so few mobs (loltorama) that are even weak to earth magic? At least SE got it right with NIN and SMN in that respect (to an extent... they all do equal damage, but none of them have positive multipliers for mobs that are weak to the element, just resist rates - . -)


And I'm against SE nerfing SAM at all. Maybe it's because I don't have a Hagun, but I honestly don't see anything wrong with SAM post update. Yah, Hasso is kinda nuts now but so what? Technically speaking DRK has the potential to blow every single job out the water beyond what's reasonable if they can get their hands on either a Kraken Club or Apocalypse, but you don't see SE going off and nerfing Blood Weapon or Soul Eater... granted this is an extreme case and they're clearly looking to adjust things for the masses, but still!

It pisses me off to no end that 2 handers are finally getting to kick the ass they should be kicking, and all the bitchy MNKs and DW WAR's (who are all fakers for never touching GAX pre-update far as I'm concerned.) don't want anyone challenging the size of their e-peens and so they demand SE step in just like they did with RNG and BLM. It's disgusting.

[Ziero]

Re: Can players' interests and needs be balanced?

I'm referring of course to the 6 primary nukes. Why is stone on the lowest end and thunder the highest? Why aren't they all equal damage, MP and casting time with bonuses and penalties applying based on the target's weaknesses or resistances like in every single other FF and most RPGs in general? For that matter, why are there so few mobs (loltorama) that are even weak to earth magic? At least SE got it right with NIN and SMN in that respect (to an extent... they all do equal damage, but none of them have positive multipliers for mobs that are weak to the element, just resist rates - . -)

My guess is because they're gained at different lvls so SE felt they needed different lvls of strength. If Stone, the first spell you get, was a strong as Thunder, the last spell you gotten, and both had the same MP costs and effectiveness, they'd have to both be learned at the same lvl. Otherwise you go a LOT of lvls with nothing new. Hence why SE split up and seperated the elemental spells into tiers and granted them at different lvls, so Blm could always be learning a new spell. But the AM II Merit spells all have the same MP costs and effectiveness as they're all gained at 75. Which is also why Nin and Smn can do that as well.

So with Blm it was a choice of all at once, then nothing for 10-20 lvls, or split em up and make them different. As far as I could tell.

Shoulda made this an Ask SE question.

And I'm against SE nerfing SAM at all. Maybe it's because I don't have a Hagun, but I honestly don't see anything wrong with SAM post update. Yah, Hasso is kinda nuts now but so what? Technically speaking DRK has the potential to blow every single job out the water beyond what's reasonable if they can get their hands on either a Kraken Club or Apocalypse, but you don't see SE going off and nerfing Blood Weapon or Soul Eater... granted this is an extreme case and they're clearly looking to adjust things for the masses, but still!
It pisses me off to no end that 2 handers are finally getting to kick the ass they should be kicking, and all the bitchy MNKs and DW WAR's (who are all fakers for never touching GAX pre-update far as I'm concerned.) don't want anyone challenging the size of their e-peens and so they demand SE step in just like they did with RNG and BLM. It's disgusting.

While I don't really feel Hasso needs that much of a fix (though we don't even know how much of a 'nerf' it will be), this comment just *screams* of "WTF". You're comparing a lvl 25 ability that gives Haste, Acc and Str that can always be up with one of *the* rarest weapons in game and a combat tactic that's only good once every 2 hours for 30 seconds? As a class who makes use of a slightly nerfed Hasso already (War/Sam recieves half the bonuses of hasso outside of full Haste) I can assure you that slightly lowering it's stat bonuses are not going to kill the ability. And as someone who uses *both* one handed and two handed weapons (which fyi, my Gaxe was used and capped long before I ever use DW) I can tell you that 2 hander Dmg blows away DW dmg without a full haste build on IT mobs.

Blood Weapon sucks without Soul Eater and Soul Eater will literally *kill* the Drk *just for using it*. That ability has enough drawback that a nerf is not needed. But Hasso is a free Haste+Str+Acc that can be up constantly with no noticable hate or negative side effect. For all we know, Hasso may just be given a Def/Eva down or something to help balance it's dmg in that a Sam who uses it would have to cancel it to take hits or something.

[Akashimo]

Re: Can players' interests and needs be balanced?

Yup, souleater does draw in hate. Espically topping it with Shadow of Death then Head Butt spammage XD