What was, and is, your vision for the Red Mage job?

[Yellow Mage]

I think the title says it all.

[jenova_9]

Re: What was, and is, your vision for the Red Mage job?

hmm well red mage seems like it already has positive things going for it. refresh, and that most wanted debuff. I don't think they will nerf that job.

[KoukiRyu]

Re: What was, and is, your vision for the Red Mage job?

hmm well red mage seems like it already has positive things going for it. refresh, and that most wanted debuff. I don't think they will nerf that job.

Uhh, I don't think he was saying anything about nerfing the job at all. I'm pretty sure he just wanted to know what SE's personal opinion on RDM was/is, and if it's lived up to that today.

[jenova_9]

Re: What was, and is, your vision for the Red Mage job?

lol what is he getting at? is the TC satisfied with how RDM is now?

[Aksannyi]

Re: What was, and is, your vision for the Red Mage job?

Meaning, did the developers intend for Red Mages to be considered the primary healers in xp parties now, instead of the enfeeblers/support/debuffers we thought we were supposed to be.

I'm not saying they didn't intend for us to fill any role, as it's quite obvious that RDM is one of the most versatile (if not the most) jobs in the game. But you see how we've been pigeonholed into this "main healing only" role, and I think what Yellow Mage is asking, in essense, is whether or not that was intentional, or if this is another thing, like NIN tanking, that developed a cause de the playerbase.

I'm also wondering could we take this further, and ask if they have any intentions of fixing this "issue," and adjusting RDM so that WHM can once again become desirable by most parties. Of course, if they do that, they might as well make BLM desirable again too. ;)

These are just my musings, though ... >.>

[Karinya]

Re: What was, and is, your vision for the Red Mage job?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: wimpy mobs are the problem. Giving more exp/hr for wimpy mobs than for dangerous ones is what encourages people to reduce the backline and combine more non-DD roles into fewer players, and RDM is one of the few jobs that can actually do that.

If an enemy is more dangerous and you need more people that are doing something other than spamming Rampage and Utsusemi, then WHM and BLM are both good choices for those situations. (RDM still is too, of course. But their role shifts when they work with other mages instead of trying to replace them.)

[Malacite]

Re: What was, and is, your vision for the Red Mage job?

Personally I find it odd that RDM specializes in anything at all (other than double cast).

I'd like to see their front line ability pushed up to par with BLU, which would mean two changes.

1) A job trait to let them simultaneously cast and melee

2) A- sword skill to match BLU along with the EX sword WS (except PLD's Swift Blade of course)

A 3rd MAB and MDB traits would finish it off nicely.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What was, and is, your vision for the Red Mage job?

Malacite even if I had higher Sword skill I'd still use my staves all the time for my enfeebles and nukes, rendering that Sword skill useless.

I would kill for more MAB though.

[Creudant]

Re: What was, and is, your vision for the Red Mage job?

In my opinion, I would love for it to go back to how it was (Meaning a regular party, no burns.), but i imagine there will be people that will be confused as to why there are more than 1 or 2 mages in a party, or why none of the melee are subbing nin, or the fact that the party has a Pld for tanking. ("Blashphemy!")
Or better yet when you get a "Huh?" after telling them the skillchain.

[Vyuru]

Re: What was, and is, your vision for the Red Mage job?

Not quite sure if this is a bit off topic or not but....

If an enemy is more dangerous and you need more people that are doing something other than spamming Rampage and Utsusemi, then WHM and BLM are both good choices for those situations.

You did mention it, but I'd like to stress the fact that mobs need to be not just more dangerous, but more.... Utsusemi unfriendly and more Pld/blood tank friendly, like Chigoe/Marids for instance.

I've seen plenty of either ninja tanks or dual war/nin tanks in the early levels fighting dangerous mobs effectively so I don't think it's just that we need more dangerous mobs. It'd be nice if Utsusemi worked more like Blink does when you have a ninja subjob. People do argue that you have to use consumables for shadows and so it's balanced, but I'd point out that you can have 1,188 Shihei in two inventory slots, for somewhere between 3,564 - 4,752 shadows.

I don't mind blink tanking, but when /ninjas can do it as well as a full ninja, I think something is a tad bit wrong.

And while there are many factors that have contributed to the parties we have now, I think that this is one of the major factors to the problem.

And I think there have been steps to make higher level mobs more appealing, like the two handed update for instance and Hasso/Seigan has roughly done for two handers what Dual Wield and shadows have done for one handers, I am still not seeing a real change, or even anything that appears to be the beginning of a change in the attitudes of exp parties.

[Jei]

Re: What was, and is, your vision for the Red Mage job?

Well my vision of the job changes a lot over period of time... see,

Wyhen I started playing,
I was told redmage was lame and to avoid playing one when I started.
And redmage really was lame and should be avoided when I started.

But then I saw the AF... and saw some "DD" rdm wielding their swords and I really liked how it looked.. I thought it was cool. So I went through some nightmare time trying to level up my Rdm. Believe it or not, I tried to be a DD RDM originally.

Back in the days when increasing skills were near impossible.
Back in the days when we couldn't land a single enfeeble spells.
Back in the days when we still had gun skill but no gun to use.
Back in the days when we had no refresh, no convert.
Back in the days when we had no party invites.
I almost cried.

My vision of RDM?
I hate waiting for PT, but I wanna wear the AF.
I hate waiting for PT, but I wanna wear the AF.
I hate waiting for PT, but I wanna wear the AF.
I hate waiting for PT, but I wanna wear the AF.
I hate waiting for PT, but I wanna wear the AF.

So I kept on going....

Then one day, SE changed how skill up worked together with all the Rdm toys: refresh, regen, convert, all given to me in the same day. I spent a whole month trying to beat the BCNM and obtained my refresh scroll. That very day I put refresh in my search comment, I got invited into PT without flagging for the first time of my life. It was a glorious day, a day I'd been waiting for.

Today, the job hasn't change much. What change is actually the possibilities openning up to us via higher cap and sub job options. And the *cough* ToA exp camps which destroy PT dynammics...

I don't enjoy RDM in the present days too much. The burning meripo, the mass amount of sub jobs you need, it put us all over the place. Using /nin /drk etc for all sorts of purpose are kinda efficient, but it's not the way RDM should have become.

My favourite moment of Rdm was still when we became the master of enfeeble, when our job was solely enfeebling and support spell casters. The time when we could survive and fight with our own repitore of spells and not having to use all sorts of fancy sub jobs. It's making us not so Red Mage anymore....

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: What was, and is, your vision for the Red Mage job?

Ha! I enjoy RDM precisely because of the flexibility. I spent long nights seeking for parties and gritting my teeth on those "3 fights then disband" invites for my DRK just because I really wanted to try Chainspell Stun.

* * *

Beat CoP 7.5 over the weekend; went as RDM74/DRK37. That's Chainspell Stun and Blizzard III, thank you very much. ^_^v

[Pteryx]

Re: What was, and is, your vision for the Red Mage job?

As for what SE's vision of RDM was in the beginning, it's clear to me from NPC commentary in the Aurastery, and the names of our AF and relic sets, that they had first envisioned RDM as a melee mage. However, RDM was given very little to make this a reality with. -- Pteryx

[Donomni]

Re: What was, and is, your vision for the Red Mage job?

Jack of All Trades, they said.

And yet we're Pink Mage.

That's totally what I wanted.

They need to do something about our ability to deal damage, because our ability to take damage certainly outclasses our ability to give damage.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What was, and is, your vision for the Red Mage job?

Woe is the Red Mage.

Your invite rate is high.
You are desired for endgame.
You can solo many mobs in the game.

Once upon a time, a Red Mage couldn't even get an invite.
What little endgame there was, White and Black Mage were preferred.
Soloing was an option at the time, but Red Mage had no endurance.

Then one day SE gave Red Mage Convert and Refresh.

And that is when RDM became loved.
But alas, RDM still had Cure spells and many used the "versatility" to fill the healer roles often demanded in parties.

You know what they say about feeding stray dogs? Well, you don't heal stray dogs if you want to cripple, nuke and melee their enemies, genius. But RDMs healed their parties anyway.

Then weak mobs became popular to EXP on. Pretty much went downhill from there.

So it really doesn't matter what SE's vision for RDM was, what RDM presently is has been cemented by the player base. Blame the RDMs who so eagerly sub /WHM and join every PT they're invited to. Sure as hell doesn't kill me shoot down PT invites if the role they need isn't what I'm in the mood for.

The problem with RDMs is, unlike their BRD and COR counterparts, they don't have the stones to say "no." But then, that's also because they've come to realize they're not the rare commodity they once were, I suppose. Everyone and their grandma has the "pimp hat" now, say "no" and they'll just find another to replace you.

There is not one thing SE can do for RDM's DD or anything that will change the situation, RDMs are going to have to change the situation for themselves.

Some do, but most don't. Most just complain.