What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

[Armando]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

Sneak Attack. It's actually less than half-strength, as it does not get a DEX multiplier when used as /THF, it only guarantees a critical hit.

TA as well, but I didn't count that as I believe it doesn't get the AGI multi without the Assassin trait, which would be impossible to get as /THF anyways.

Don't forget Souleater (subbed Souleater consumes 10% HP per swing but only outputs 5% HP or 1/2 of that 10% into damage.)

Nevertheless, I'm 70% certain from my limited /BST experiences that your uncapped BST level does matter.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

Sneak Attack. It's actually less than half-strength, as it does not get a DEX multiplier when used as /THF, it only guarantees a critical hit.

TA as well, but I didn't count that as I believe it doesn't get the AGI multi without the Assassin trait, which would be impossible to get as /THF anyways.

Both are JAs which are weakened by virtue of THF being subbed, which isn't the result of a job being capped at half level. Once SA becomes available from subbing THF (i.e. JOB30/THF15), it is as effective as it will ever be. SA does not continue to increase in power from JOB30/THF15 to JOB75/THF37. The only reason SA damage goes up for THF main is that base DEX goes up with levels, not to mention more options as far as gear which gives +DEX. The same goes for TA.

Charm is quite different in that its effectiveness is very directly tied to the level of BST. If somehow a level 30 BST had the same amount of CHR as a level 50 BST, the level 30 BST still wouldn't be able to Charm with the same success rate or duration as the level 50 BST. This is what I meant by a JA who's strength scales with level. If a level 30 THF somehow had the same amount of DEX as a level 50 THF, SA would give the same benefit to both the level 30 and the level 50 THF.

Hasso's STR boost is directly tied to the level of SAM. It's not that SAM main gets +10 STR all the time, and that /SAM gets +5 STR all the time. The STR boost actually goes up from +3 at level 25 to +10 at level 75.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

If a level 30 THF somehow had the same amount of DEX as a level 50 THF, SA would give the same benefit to both the level 30 and the level 50 THF.

That depends on how you look at it--level correction for damage is still in play, however much DEX one has. Even if a THF30 has THF50's amount of DEX, it still cannot do same amount of damage on the same monsters as a THF50.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

That depends on how you look at it--level correction for damage is still in play, however much DEX one has. Even if a THF30 has THF50's amount of DEX, it still cannot do same amount of damage on the same monsters as a THF50.

Nevertheless, SA adds an amount to base damage varying only by DEX, which has nothing to do with the level of the job. Base damage then gets scaled by pDif, so their overall damage will be quite different.

When it's subbed, SA has no variance in any way shape or form as the player's level changes. A WAR75/THF15 compared to a WAR75/THF20, WAR75/THF30 or WAR75/THF37 will see little difference (the only difference would be due to the additional STR you would get from having an increasingly leveled subjob). The same with Souleater. Compare a WAR75/DRK30 to a WAR75/DRK35 or WAR75/DRK37. Souleater has the same effect on all 3, taking 10% of their HP to deal half of that as damage (with the only difference coming due to higher total HP that comes with an increasingly leveled subjob).

And that is why I say neither JA compares properly to Charm. A WAR75/BST1 will have a noticeably different charm success rate compared to a WAR75/BST37. The success rate of charm is heavily influenced by the level of your subjob itself (and not some indirect stat, such as CHR having gone up due to an increasingly leveled subjob).

Having said all that, I still think it's good to compare Charm to SA and Souleater to come to one very important conclusion: there is no hard-and-fast rule on restricting the power of a Job Ability to "half level" when it comes from a subjob. Each Job Ability is treated differently by SE for the purposes of balancing the game.

[seq]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

way back i'v done a small test to prove that charm is dependant on bst's level, me being drk24/bst60 and my friend drk24/bst15, we both used Guage on the same mob and got different messages although we were both humes and naked...go figure.
the only problem i see with /BST's full power charm is that job/bst will compete with main bsts's few available camps,other than that i love my nin/bst >.>;