What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

[LyonheartLakshmi]

What do you think of level 75 players using Beastmaster as a support job and being able to charm level 75 monsters?

Players have known for some time that if they also have Beastmaster at level 75, then they will be able to use it as a support job and be able to consistently succeed at charming level 75 monsters, just as if they were using Beastmaster as their main job.

Some players see it as an exploit. They reason that if a support job is capped at level 37, then a WAR75/BST37 (for example) shouldn't be able to charm a monster that is much higher than level 37. Still, some other players see this as a valid play style.

Is the way Charm works when Beastmaster is used as a support job intentional? Or are players who use Charm in this manner taking advantage of an exploit?

[Rain_Blade]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

What do you think of level 75 players using Beastmaster as a support job and being able to charm level 75 monsters?

Players have known for some time that if they also have Beastmaster at level 75, then they will be able to use it as a support job and be able to consistently succeed at charming level 75 monsters, just as if they were using Beastmaster as their main job.

Some players see it as an exploit. They reason that if a support job is capped at level 37, then a WAR75/BST37 (for example) shouldn't be able to charm a monster that is much higher than level 37. Still, some other players see this as a valid play style.

Is the way Charm works when Beastmaster is used as a support job intentional? Or are players who use Charm in this manner taking advantage of an exploit?

The part in bold is false in my opinion. I don't see why people think this. You can't play the feel of a 75 BST with sub 37. It's basically callng yourself a ???75/BST75 which isn't possible. Whoever came up with this probably brainwashed others into thinking it because that's how people can be nowadays. For the topic question, I see no problem with it when it comes to farming (depends what lvl monsters).

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

Hmm. We wouldn't want PLD/WAR's or NIN/WAR's Provoke to be half powered of WAR/NIN's, do we?

Allowing full powered charm (limited to main job's level) opens up BST's game play to others. While it potentially could compete with BST's leveling/meriting, there aren't enough of BST's or /BST's to make it a major conflict currently.

Add to that the limitation of no jug pets from /BST and no Leave until Lv.70, it really doesn't have much potential to be a problem for most levels.

I'd just call Charm from /BST a reward for those who had leveled BST and leave it at that.

[KoukiRyu]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

Not trying to flame here, but have you tried it before? I mean, of course you don't get JA's, JT's, stats, etc from the BST sub, but there's no reason to discount this unless you've tried it before.

I see this as maybe a sort of...condolence for BST being screwed so much? If you make the climb to 75, and enjoy that solo play, then it allows you to do so on every other job, which in my opinion, would be nice if you do indeed enjoy solo'ing. And on top of that, if it's a different job, you can simply switch subs and go back to normal exp pt'ing.

I'd like to believe this is indeed true, and I don't see it as all as an exploit, and that it could have possibly been intended in the first place so that people can do some more solo'ing.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

The part in bold is false in my opinion. I don't see why people think this. You can't play the feel of a 75 BST with sub 37. It's basically callng yourself a ???75/BST75 which isn't possible. Whoever came up with this probably brainwashed others into thinking it because that's how people can be nowadays. For the topic question, I see no problem with it when it comes to farming (depends what lvl monsters).

Sorry, but you're wrong. Charm's strength toward other jobs is widely believed and practically accepted to be equal strength to a 75 job when when 75 BST is subbed.

Go take your 75 job and sub a 37 BST and you get resisted and die horribly. A 75 job who has a 75 BST levelled will have more success with charm than a 75 job with BST at 37.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

Whether you believe you have to have BST leveled to 75 in order to charm lvl 75 mobs as JOB75/BST37 is actually a side note. I was in a heated thread over in Alla where some players said it was breaking the rules of the game for anyone subbing BST to be able to charm a mob that was much higher than level 37.

I just want to hear "from the horses mouth" what SE thinks of WAR75/BST37 being able to charm level 75 mobs. It would also be interesting to see if they affirm or deny the unique behavior of Charm when BST is subbed (that's if this question ever gets to them to begin with).

For the topic question, I see no problem with it when it comes to farming (depends what lvl monsters).

The heated topic I mentioned started because of a player who was mad about some LS using a bunch of /BSTs to help take down an HNM. I suppose you could call that a form of farming ;)

[Electricity Gone Human]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

Players have known for some time that if they also have Beastmaster at level 75, then they will be able to use it as a support job and be able to consistently succeed at charming level 75 monsters, just as if they were using Beastmaster as their main job.

I'd like to call BS on this. Pics or it didn't happen.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

I'd like to call BS on this. Pics or it didn't happen.

...

You can call it whatever you want, it doesn't change the fact that a 75BRD/37BST with 75 BST levelled can charm with the same effectiveness as his 75 BST. I just watched a 75RDM/37BST help a 75 BST and 75 SMN take down Xoltol the other day.

[Rain_Blade]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

Sorry, but you're wrong. Charm's strength toward other jobs is widely believed and practically accepted to be equal strength to a 75 job when when 75 BST is subbed.

Go take your 75 job and sub a 37 BST and you get resisted and die horribly. A 75 job who has a 75 BST levelled will have more success with charm than a 75 job with BST at 37.

I apologize for misunderstanding then. It just sounds ridiculous, but if it's true, then once again I apologize for my misunderstanding.

[Kailea]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

Charm is based of CHR... thats why you can sub it and still charm , its not because you ahve leveled BST to 75 -.-

[Ziero]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

I was charming lvl 25-30 mobs with a lvl 1 Bst sub on my 31 thf back in the day

It works because it's based on Chr not Bst level. There has been zero proof that being a 75bst and subbing it increases charm rate. And the only way *to* prove it is to have three identical characters, one subbing lvl 1 Bst, one subbing 37 Bst and the third subbing 75 Bst and have them charm the same exact mob repeatedly and see who gets the better rate. That is assuming mobs don't build up a resistance to charm now like they do with everything else.

[Skoal]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

I was charming lvl 25-30 mobs with a lvl 1 Bst sub on my 31 thf back in the day

It works because it's based on Chr not Bst level. There has been zero proof that being a 75bst and subbing it increases charm rate. And the only way *to* prove it is to have three identical characters, one subbing lvl 1 Bst, one subbing 37 Bst and the third subbing 75 Bst and have them charm the same exact mob repeatedly and see who gets the better rate. That is assuming mobs don't build up a resistance to charm now like they do with everything else.

People have done what you suggest doing. They just didn't make this up.

This has been around a long time, I am surprised so many people have been in the dark about it.

[Mhurron]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

I apologize for misunderstanding then. It just sounds ridiculous, but if it's true, then once again I apologize for my misunderstanding.

It's a completely understandable position to take, after all subbed spells (WHM summoning carbuncle or a WHM casting stone) are half strength. The difference is charm is a JA not a spell that is based on a skill level. Provoke (as mentioned) isn't half strength when used buy a NIN or PLD, neither is any other JA (AFAIK).

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

It's a completely understandable position to take, after all subbed spells (WHM summoning carbuncle or a WHM casting stone) are half strength. The difference is charm is a JA not a spell that is based on a skill level. Provoke (as mentioned) isn't half strength when used buy a NIN or PLD, neither is any other JA (AFAIK).

I argued that point for quite a long time as well. There is only one JA in the entire game that I could come up with that scales in strength based on level: Hasso. Well, at least the STR bonus portion of it.

[Necropolis]

Re: What do you think of players who sub BST so that they can charm monsters?

I've heard that having bst fully leveled to 75 will increase charm rates, but I've found from personal experience that I have no problem charming VT and lower on my 75 whm. By bst is currently only 43.

There may be some modifier, or secret skill associated with charm that we don't know about (kinda like choco digging?), but I'd have to say it's based primarily on chr. The duration of charm and the resist rates have been consistant across both whm and bst.

Personally, I don't feel this is an exploit at all. How is it that half the populace will say lolbst yet turn around and complain about having bst as a support job? Even if it did give an "unfair" advantage, you still have to deal with the problems bst have. Lack of camps, despawn patch, and losing claim on mobs, as well as people camping ontop of you.

Not to mention you don't get call bst, for when you try to swap pets and find someone has killed all you pets to watch you die. Leave, tame, and reward at double the level now, so you'll be "ghetto" leaving pets for a lot longer, and slower exp. I don't really see it as a great solo class by using /bst, but nice for some NMs and events. Recently I used /whm to claim Shikigami Weapon, widescan and /ja charm <scan> lets me attempt to charm it even while invisible.

I see it as nothing more than a utility job that will rarely see use, and the occasional person determined to solo thier way to 75.