What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

[BurningPanther]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Well, how much would Signet mobs have to offer in order to compete? What would have to be offered to make people reconsider the ease of speed-killing?

[Armando]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Well, Signet would have to provide an EXP bonus like Sanction, for starters.

[BurningPanther]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

It always perplexed me that, Signet areas' mobs are, as a generality, considered harder than Sanction mobs, but you only get an experience bonus for parties smaller than six... for harder mobs.

Anyhow, Signet bonus would have to be equal to Sanction, mobs would perhaps have to yield higher exp, and perhaps then increase damage and exp for skillchains, and then again for magic bursts. And to properly promote SC/MB, the bonus they offer would have to be drastic.

[Malacite]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Another good incentive would be further increased EXP and other bonuses for anyone who's country controls the region, and perhaps a penalty (or simply no bonuses for anyone) in regions the beastmen control.

It would be a great way to re-invigorate the conquest system and actually have a country's influence in the region matter/be felt.

[Armando]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

I agree. I don't think anyone gives a damn about Conquest results any more. Hell, I have 100k CP and even just trying to turn them into gil is a bit of an iffy proposition - there's so much CP gear in the market that sometimes what I put up won't even sell.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Another good incentive would be further increased EXP and other bonuses for anyone who's country controls the region...

I think that sounds good on paper. And then, when it's put into action, you get players complaining about camp choice because conquest gives the party leader an exp bonus but not the other 5 members. And stuff like that.

[Legal Fish]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

I must have misunderstood you earlier. I didn't realize that when you said someone is "being very stupid", you basically meant they have a different opinion from you as to what's convenient and preferable.

Being stupid would be contributing to lag for a less optimum situation. Bonus points if 1) they compare about space(yet don't use Storage to the their fullest); 2) if they are being a sheep.

Nothing like that in RoZ or ToA.

Um... duh?

Aht Urghan isn't suppose to be a starting point. You don't start there. Why would it require weaker monsters? Just like Jeuno's base surroundings are roughly 30 to 40 in level.

Want a path?

Jeuno(level 30) -> Mhaura -> Aht Urhgan -> High level content.

RoZ follows the same thing, though with Rabao and Norg being placed oddly. Then again, you are looking at something that shouldn't matter beyond the three starting towns.

ToA you can have all five original staging points at day one and the only real places that I'd consider exploration-worthy are Mount Z and Arrapoggo Reef because of thier sheer size. CoP had size in spades. Attowah Chasm, Ule Range, Bibiki Bay. Beautiful. RoZ had nothing on it in terms of scale and ToA feels like leftovers in contrast to RoZ, even in terms of missions.

All ToA has going for it is mini-games, some nice endgame alternatives and story. And no matter where we go, all the progress is driven from Naja Salaheem's office.

Don't get me wrong, I like Assault, Salvage, Nyzul Isle, I like ToA's story and the needed changes Sanction and ToA mobs brough to the in-game economy. But its all to braindead easy and easy is the common complaint for missions in particular, followed closely by the classes that are left out of EXP because its much easier to make a meleex4, BRD and RDM PT than anything else.

What's your assault rank? I want a screenshot. If you aren't near cap, put a foot in your mouth. Assaults are missions.

And now you are using your opinions on how areas look as a main argument for something. PS. CoP areas weren't that huge compared to RoZ or ToAU. You are making things up. But there is one thing CoP had a problem with, that all of those zones were and are practically empty.

Why are PLDs and even NINs not needed for PTs now?

Why do they must be needed?


Anyway, OMGWTF you seem to have no real argument. Bouncing back and forth between points without being clear enough, starting a headache.

These mobs aren't just weak to piercing and slashing, they're weak to anything.

This is what you said. You make it seem it's these monsters have a natural weakness to all types of damage... when it's just their level and job that makes them easy.

[Malacite]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

I think that sounds good on paper. And then, when it's put into action, you get players complaining about camp choice because conquest gives the party leader an exp bonus but not the other 5 members. And stuff like that.

Granted, but it's unavoidable. You don't like it? Then take part in your country's conquest. The idea here is to add incentive for leveling in older areas and actually give the conquest results some real meaning.

I also think beastmen mobs should be strengthened when they control a region, so that we really feel the effects of their power too. Again, it's all for getting people back into conquest and adding IMO a lot more flavor to the game.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Granted, but it's unavoidable. You don't like it? Then take part in your country's conquest. The idea here is to add incentive for leveling in older areas and actually give the conquest results some real meaning.

Or, only exp with people from your own nation, which is the path of least resistance I see most players taking. It's hard enough to form a party where you can take proper advantage of SC + MB (which is what we were trying to promote to begin with) without having to then worry about national allegiance.

[Malacite]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

I never claimed it was perfect. Most parties I join have 3 or 4 people all from 1 nation anyway. If you don't like it, do something about it for your nation :3

[Lmnop]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

skillchain/MB exp bonuses should never be implemented.

Hellooo nin/sam/sam/sam/blm/rdm parties all using Lotus Katanas and MBing Stone I... on T Earth Elementals.

Conquest exp bonus could perhaps benefit everyone, based off number of players in party from controlling region. And this, to a cap.

For instance, Windy controls Qufim. You get a 5% exp bonus for having a Windurstian in your party. You get a 10% for having 2, and 15% for 3. You would get 15% for 4-6 as well. Thus, no reason to get more than 3. But also, you couldn't compose a party that gets max bonus regardless of region. you could get 2 Bastokans, 2 San d'Orians, and 2 Windurstians, and get a 10% bonus anywhere that's not beastmen controlled. Or 3 Windy boys and 3 Sandy gals and just avoid Bastok zones (easy enough on my server, Bastok never has anything).

[Amele]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

I'm pointing out hub design and its weaknesses. ToA has no real sense of scale. You go outside of the city and there are level 60+ mobs. Then its a hop and skip to the Beastmen fortresses and its 70-80+ and you've hardly gone anywhere yet.

I'll humor this: outside ronfaure: level 1 mobs, time to outpost warp to valkurm dunes. *bam* level 30 mobs.

outside whitegate: level 60 mobs, time to runic portal to Mount Z. *bam* level 80 mobs.

30 levels, 20 levels. - two zones on foot travel (the newer of which is drastically larger areas than the older)

Even CoP had some sense of scaling progress. Not just because of level caps, but because progress was scaled along with a story.
Nothing like that in RoZ or ToA.

CoP was hubbed too if people ever bothered to use the cop hub (they didn't because it lacked a fast way to return to jeuno, although it probably would've been enough to make the main portal in sea two way, so you could get just about everywhere else in the world relatively quickly by abusing Sea.) if they had allowed you to use Sealion's den to get back to Jeuno it would've been perfect. mobs level 30-83 within two zones of town. a 10 minute walk back from any of the three major crags to reach sealion's den. heck, you can get to dunes in 10 minutes running through a zone that's no harder to avoid aggro in than LaThiene plateau.

and ToA feels like leftovers in contrast to RoZ, even in terms of missions.

what rank assault are you? those are the missions of ToA and have a similar amount of story to the original nation missions - although spread out into smaller questlike chunks, while the epic plot is in a series of ToA cutscenes.

But its all to braindead easy and easy is the common complaint for missions in particular, followed closely by the classes that are left out of EXP because its much easier to make a meleex4, BRD and RDM PT than anything else.

Just because it took us 4 years to figure out that SE didn't intend for us to exp on paladin crabs for 40 levels, doesn't mean that exp in AU is somehow brokenly easy.

No one ever said they were designed to take more damage, they just DO and are singled out for that specific reason. Its an oversight SE is wary, even worried to correct because these mobs are exploited.

uh, what? SE knew how abused Bhaflau thickets, Caedarva mire and waoajam woodlands were before they ever added Nyzul. then they intentionally made nyzul *more* merit friendly. It's not an oversight by SE. The only concern they have is that players feel left out, but guess what! there's camps for players who want to SC too - and there's camps for manaburns, and there's camps for people who need piercing damage (thiefs dragoons). no job is 'left out' unless you think there's only two camps that are any good.

Why are PLDs and even NINs not needed for PTs now?

uh, what? nin is usually the third DD listed in the 'but they're not: war nin mnk brd rdm' complaint.

and paladins who know how to DD are quite welcome in merit.

Because we have mobs now that don't have PLD-type defense, don't double/triple attack and are commonly weak to piercing and slashing and even blunt damage.

for the -last- time. the only notably type-weak mobs in AU areas are -all- weak to *just* piercing (colibri, spongilla fly, imps, puks) please either check your facts or stop making them up, whichever it is you're doing.

Contrast Imps, Jnun, Puks, BLU, BLM and BST Mamool to what came before. Hobgoblins, Crabs, Raptors Roc, Weapons, Aura Statues, Kindred Demons. Why aren't we EXPing on the latter now? Hm? Travel aside, if ToA mobs aren't any more difficult, then people should have no problems going to these camps.

at the risk of making this a long winded reply: 1) most mobs aren't level 80-83 in non AU areas (the sweet spot of +5-+8 for exp:difficulty) hobgoblins? top out at level 80, too little exp to make chaining the limited number of pops worthwhile.

2) there's crabs that are higher than level 76 in non-AU areas? (and I have exp'd on crab alongside mamool in mamook, thanks much) same for raptors.

3) Big birds are stupid mobs to exp on if you're not doing a piercing party (rng / thf / drg ) which, guess what! involves lots of people /nin doing their darndest to maximise their attack rate and firing their strongest weaponskills. strong vs. slashing (the most common melee damage) and capable of two rounding a traditional tank? stupid mob to exp on even if there were enough of them to make arbitrarily chaining a possibility if you didn't have the camp to yourself

4) weapons: double the number of pops on the first floor in shrine, and people would do weapons. a modern merit party has to wait 5 minutes for repops, which kills chain and is wasted exp time.

5) Aura Statues: Golems are way too high HP (seriously, they make monk beastmen look like jokes in the HP dept.), they've never been an exp mob. the better camp isn't popular because it's in the middle of nowhere and supports only one good party, so you waste 30 minutes to find out where that party is in shrine. the less popular camp is a magic aggro nightmare and that's *not* a good place to exp ever. (until/if we get CHM.)

6) kindred demons are and were awesome. most people dont know where the camp is, and it's a hassle to get to unless you have a whitemage. (and no, they're not always available. I have issues finding whitemages to replace me in merit) this one is mostly travel time, it's 20 minutes *at best* to reach camp. and good luck getting a replacement to walk out solo.

7) trolls: I exp on trolls all the time. with a good bard and a not retarded healer (i.e. knows to dispel redmages and paladins) it's easy to get 12-15k and you could clear 18k if you had a roaming party and had it to yourself.

8) name me three lamia camps that aren't 20 minutes from a runic portal or 50 minutes from whitegate via nashmau, and then we'll talk about why we do or don't exp on them. People do camp on Qutrub near dvucca isle on the occasion they want an SC party, and guess what: you can get 15k/hr there too.

Because the mobs are weaker and the respawn time is shorter.
Simple as that.

because indoor respawn times fail? mobs aren't particularly weaker.

Why are BLMs soloing (excluding people who enjoy it)?
See above.

manaburn what? there's multiple camps available for it now (although bringing back sea elements might be a nice gesture by SE).

At any rate, this is a dead horse issue now. SE has heard the complaints and stated they are planning adjustments with WotG's release. So arguing that all things are equal is moot, if all things were equal PLD and BLMs would not be complaining and SE wouldn't be considering adjustments.

most people aren't complaining about job popularity, they're complaining that they miss the SC style of exp because they find the 'do the most damage *I* can in the shortest amount of time* an even duller grind.

[Malacite]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

skillchain/MB exp bonuses should never be implemented.

Hellooo nin/sam/sam/sam/blm/rdm parties all using Lotus Katanas and MBing Stone I... on T Earth Elementals.

Conquest exp bonus could perhaps benefit everyone, based off number of players in party from controlling region. And this, to a cap.

For instance, Windy controls Qufim. You get a 5% exp bonus for having a Windurstian in your party. You get a 10% for having 2, and 15% for 3. You would get 15% for 4-6 as well. Thus, no reason to get more than 3. But also, you couldn't compose a party that gets max bonus regardless of region. you could get 2 Bastokans, 2 San d'Orians, and 2 Windurstians, and get a 10% bonus anywhere that's not beastmen controlled. Or 3 Windy boys and 3 Sandy gals and just avoid Bastok zones (easy enough on my server, Bastok never has anything).

I don't know about that set up. It's certainly possible but not too likely.


Also, the way I figure it the EXP bonus would be a flat rate given to people from the nation that controls the region. Tough luck to anyone who isn't a member of whatever nation controls the area at the time. You don't like it, then fight for your country!

The only other option would be to give bonuses based on regional influence (maybe these could be done addition to the above)

For example; San d'Oria controls Zulkeim. All San d'Orians gain say a 15-20% EXP bonus for all kills in the region. Bastok and Windurst could then gain smaller bonuses that scale according to their regional influence until the next update. This way they aren't entirely left out, but don't get the full benefits of controlling the region either.

Either that, or give some kind of additional bonus effects to whoever controls the region. Anything to spur more participation in conquest (EXP rewards for successful expeditionary forces for instance)

[Amele]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

one simple solution to the exp bonus for SC/MB is to simply provide a static bonus for using it, based on how powerful the SC/MB was;

lvl 1 SC: 5%
lvl 2 SC: 7%
lvl 3 SC: 10%

with the tiers adding 1,2,3,4,5 on top of that (excluding tier I single target nukes) from any job, so banish II, holy, etc would apply.

you get the best single bonus of any SC/MB.

although, I'm not sure you really need this: just make more camps like qutrub and consider giving them some extra weakness like: darkness SC = drastic def down, etc.

[Legal Fish]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

I've already expressed my opinion on a near-perfect system for Conquest in a thread that is in the main discussion forum.

Now for SCs... I think straight exp bonuses are not the way to go. I really, really don't feel like repeating myself again, but I will.



1. Magic Burst MP Conversation

When a spell or bloodpact is MB'd, the spell's cost is reduced. Randomly in this range: 50% to 75% off (50 to 25% cost).

2. A new BLM trait... call it "Sorcerer" for kicks.

Level 30. Greatly lowers the enmity of MB'd spells.

3. Many weapon skills that aren't multi-hit are boosted. Their TP modifier goes up .5 or 1 after level 50 and if only 1 weapon is being held.

Example: Impulse Drive becomes 100%-1.5, 200%-2, 300%-3.

4. The magic accuracy of Skillchains is enhanced greatly. It is based on the weaponskill of the user.

It's resist rate is very similar to a BLM with equal Elemental Skill casting a nuke of the same element.

On lower ITs and lower, this leads to a lot of full mirrors of SCs.

5. New monsters are added that are very tough against both melee and magical damage, but fall apart with high damage multipliers(x4, x6, like Qutrub) against SC and MBs.

Wyve are adjusted so they fit a SC+MB and tank party better:
I. Take double damage from SC and MB.
II. Only use AoE Attack Down when hate is scattered around many targets.
III. Aspirable.
IV. When they enter their "Berserk/Haste" state, Shield, Guard, and Parry blocks go up by 50%.