What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

[Murphie]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

You're making a lot of bold assumptions and blanket statements in that post, Insert. Not a lot of it has any basis in fact.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Casual gamers are a majority of your gilbuyers.

Er, where do you get the data that it's the casual players who buy Gil?

Casual gamers don't even want to buy those $60 console games, much less dropping $1000 on fake "virtual" money... Only hardcore people who get caught up in this game would think it's worthwhile to dump in hundreds of dollars on top of monthly fees for in-game currency.

Casual gamers are often the people that have to have a party nearly fully assembled in order to participate.

LOL. Casual players don't even bother to ask what's in the party before saying "yes." The word you're looking for is "picky".

They also are the ones that if XP isn't meeting their expectations have "connection issues".

Those are "jerks," and plenty of hardcore players act that way.

TP burns are bad, so where manaburns, arrowburns, shadowburns, and every other burn party conceived.

There is nothing wrong with specialized exp parties ("burn" setups), unless one type works so well that it makes everything else seem terrible. It's good to have a variety play styles, IMO, and S-E should add more exp monsters/camps good for parties with diverse jobs and roles (i.e. "balanced"), and stop favoring WS spam parties so much.

[Insert]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Maybe the tone seems harsh, and a bit generalized. That is part of my point though. There will always be exceptions, I am not desiring to start a flame war.

For every person that is stuck now with the current burn trend, they were sticking it to others before. I am not trying to offend anyone, but listen to the people that speak up about things in game.

My OPINION on casual players is just that, my opinion...and I thought I'd share it. You are entitled to yours as well, I am not aware of your experiences.

As far as broad sweeping generalizations, this whole thread is based on the generalization that TP burn is bad and it must be stopped with people voicing THEIR opinions about it.

And my basis of the gilbuying comment came from all of the various threads on many different forums about gilbuying, and those who defended it more often than not, were casual players.

If I offended anyone, I apologize it was not the purpose of my post. I didn't recall singling anyone out in particular, and did try and keep it open ended enough that it didn't do so.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

I think its still immensely hypocritical of SE to have nerf RNG so hard two years ago and not do a thing about TP burn trends. You can't look at that nerf or even the adjustment that finally came and tell my RNGs didn't ultimately get a raw deal when you look at EXP PTs doing the EXACT SAME THING RNGs were punished for.

SE's stance that they intended the zones to be like this is pure bullshit, you're kidding yourself if you really believed them when they said they wanted these trends to take place. They made a mistake and now that its popular for everyone to exploit these mobs they are frightened to reverse that mistake.

But I'm going to say this guys, I do just fine at my job, as do BLMs. I have no problems keeping my RNG's EXP capped and merritted.

However, I'm kinda tired hearing people act like a WHM, PLD, BLM, SMN, RNG or what-have-you in their merit PT being like a fly in thier soup. Because WHO IS IT you turn to when you need the big monsters killed and the steady DoT. Who is it you call to tank or heal you?

Uh, that would be WHM, PLD, BLM, SMN and RNG.

And don't even get me started on your lolDRKing. Who is it you turn to for that utterly broken, K Club Burn deal?

Oh right, DRK. How is helping a DRK in your LS going to slow you down? Some of my best merit PTs had DRKs. They're good w/o K Clubs, too.

Give em love, people.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Casual gamers are a majority of your gilbuyers. Your Mr. "I'm too good to camp this NM for this item", or "who needs to farm when I can buy the gil for what I want" do alot of harm. This is not to say that all casual gamers are gilbuyers, or vice versa. In almost every intelligent discussion I've read regarding gilbuying this was the most often used rationalization.

This is a difference between "most gil buyers are casual gamers" and "most casual gamers are gil buyers". Also, you seem to imply that hard core gamers never buy gil, which I don't buy. If anything, I would expect casual gamers to be less likely to buy gil than hard core gamers. If you are only playing this game casually, why further invest real money into it? It's the hard core gamers who spend so many hours in this game who would get more bang out of their gil buying buck.

[Malacite]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

If your character info is right your currently a 24ish blm. I soloed from 25-30 in one afternoon out in Yhoatar Jungle on my blm. Was fun fast and great exp I turned down pt invites. Low level parties are always a bit harder to get in general, tp burns have nothing to do with pre 55ish exp. And At blm 51 the solo exp/hr is amazing it is much quicker then parties. Again the low levels =/= the whole game. S-E doesn't need to do any thing about this expect maybe increase the exp while soloing, which would help out blm and be the beastmaster fix that is wanted.

Yes it's up to date, but I posted this some time ago and it was in reference to my Tarutaru Hanyou, whom I've decided to stop leveling altogether (finally)

I think its still immensely hypocritical of SE to have nerf RNG so hard two years ago and not do a thing about TP burn trends. You can't look at that nerf or even the adjustment that finally came and tell my RNGs didn't ultimately get a raw deal when you look at EXP PTs doing the EXACT SAME THING RNGs were punished for.

Thank freaking GOD I'm not the only one who is pissed off at this. SE neuters my favorite job, only so that other jobs can do the exact same thing at no consequence? I call BULL SHIT on SE.

SE was saying they're working on new ways for us to EXP, so I'm hoping that by no later than WotG's release we'll have new camps and strategies. I think there should be an EXP bonus on IT mobs from Signet to encourage the old SC + MB style parties.

Getting rid of TP burns would be stupid. It's a great way for melee jobs to gather and churn out huge amounts of EXP. What needs to happen is to give the same opportunities to more kinds of parties so that there aren't any jobs getting excluded from the prosperity.


Oh, and SE may as well go and undo the ranged nerfing now to be honest. Missions aside (which have already been toned down immensely recently, IMO) I seriously doubt it would affect end game EXP all that much. Even with RNG doing the damage it used to against VT and IT mobs, I doubt they can keep up with WAR and MNK nowadays. I could be wrong, but why should one job class suffer while the other DD are getting away with murder?

I'm still of the opinion that it was the multi hit TP nerf that caused things to spiral out of control the way they have. You think RNG would have ever gotten so popular otherwise? You think WAR and MNK would be rocking TP burns? Hell no. It would be DRG and SAM owning the mire with penta thrust these days.

I'm not saying that would necessarily be a good thing, but SE did state that they would be tweaking multi hit WS in the future again. They didn't say how, just that they would.


Who knows? Maybe they'll sober up and try to fix the mess that is end game EXP.

[Raydeus]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

I think its still immensely hypocritical of SE to have nerf RNG so hard two years ago and not do a thing about TP burn trends. You can't look at that nerf or even the adjustment that finally came and tell my RNGs didn't ultimately get a raw deal when you look at EXP PTs doing the EXACT SAME THING RNGs were punished for.

Thank freaking GOD I'm not the only one who is pissed off at this. SE neuters my favorite job, only so that other jobs can do the exact same thing at no consequence? I call BULL SHIT on SE.

Indeed, but sadly the RNG nerf was due to all those players crying and complaining about it. Although I wouldn't be surprised if SE used arrow-burn parties as the prototypes for Aht Urgan's xp camps.

[Tipsy]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?



This is what SE uses, eh?

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Great, another KI reject.

Insert, congratulations, I don't think I've read such undiluted drivel in a long time, you actually beat my previous expectations of how far from reality a person could be.

As for the subject at hand, I believe they need to stamp out burn parties. However, S-E know about the problem then go and release an expansion that caters to three figure limit breaks which people consistently achieve. I don't know how they can in all conscience claim to support the, "Don't forget about your family and friends" message they slap on their game and then put the scripts in for limit breaks than can only be obtained by ridiculously unhealthy hours of unbroken gaming. Unless I'm wrong here and you can achieve limit 173 for example in an hour or over a few hours with breaks away from the screen.

As I've said many times before, increase the level on Utsusemi: Ni and you go a long way to removing the burn parties. Problem is then, all the burn party favourite jobs cry into their cornflakes and the subscription numbers fall. And, as I said above, if S-E wanted to discourage burn parties why did they introduce an expansion that is a burn party's wet dream?

[Tipsy]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Oh, and SE may as well go and undo the ranged nerfing now to be honest.

Didn't they kinda sorta do that already? Or something to that effect.

And Grizzle is right, the number of fools who are milking this situation (Dare I call it that.) out-number the fools complaining. If SE turns the tables, they will have shot themselves in the face.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

And my basis of the gilbuying comment came from all of the various threads on many different forums about gilbuying, and those who defended it more often than not, were casual players.

Your post is a self-abortion purely due to the fact that if you've made it to 75 in FFXI, you are ANYTHING but a casual gamer. "Casual gamer" is elitist nonsense best saved for IGN, Neo-GAF or, worse, GameFAQs. Go there and talk about casual gamers or, better yet, go play in traffic.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Er... Too much hostility in this thread. @_@

I don't think it was RNG's performance in exp parties which really concerned S-E; it's their "end game" damage ability which S-E was likely focusing on. (Range attack didn't used to have level penalty like melee attack, right?) Toning down "arrow burn" was just a bonus.

* * *

Insert, I think you misread the casual gamers; they may not care much about "earning status", and would not disapprove of gil buying as much--but that doesn't mean they'd want to spend their own money on it. Why? Because they don't care enough to open their wallets.

I watch a few sports game a year on TV, but I don't understand why people get obsessive about many sports. I've nothing against football pools, basketball team t-shirts, sport magazines, or baseball season tickets (except a certain team who won't use its home city name).

But, I won't wouldn't spend money on any of those. That make me a casual sport viewer. That's what casual means--I may indulge from time to time, but I usually have better things to spend my money on.

Are there casual players buying from RMT? Most likely. Are most RMT customers casual players? Very unlikely--hard to see people who don't obsess over in-game anything buy gil en mass. >_>

[Akashimo]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

If anything, day they make Ni higher in level is the day they release something new to take its place in effectiveness, but hard to obtian than rare relic from dynamis. I rarely merit these days, why? Tired of always getting;
Leader>> {Party} {Do you need it?}
Me>> {Where?}
Leader>> {Caedarva Mire}
Me>> {No thanks.}
Even though the entire time lfp my /seacom ALWAYS states, {Caedarva Mire} = {No thanks.} >_>;;;;
People are lazy, espically the "hardcore" TPbuners. If anyone digs up that post I had a while back with the guy saying old areas are too weak(party chat log screenshot, think its under pet peeves thread), its the same story every where I turn. Old areas are just too overlooked and its almost impossible to make a good standard type party for them. Never any blms lfp when tanks are, never any refreshs at the same time as whms. Though if you're lucky you might get a standard party set up in the ToAU areas. Those hands down can easily beat the TP burn kill rate. THF(or sam/thf), sc opener w/o or w/ SATA, Tank, blm or smn bp mb, refresh, whm can easily chain 5 mobs just because of the high numbers of Darkness or Light topped with AM II, Tier 3/4 or BPs (or in pld/whm case for light, Holy/Banish III). Just a matter of knowning how to do stuff, sadly, none of that these days.

Though if they take away Ni, not only is it the most casual drop people go after for a reason to do BCNMs, which is less gil for someone to make when they are a BCNM lover for the very reason, but soloing is gonna be harder if not unsafe on thf for farming >_>; I can easily pull on any sub with thf, done it with /sam, /war(fav), /drg, its all just a matter of making sure I'm father from the mob before it catches me or maxing out in eva gear.

Meh, I got nothing else /semirant.

[Sevv]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Casual gamers are a majority of your gilbuyers. Your Mr. "I'm too good to camp this NM for this item", or "who needs to farm when I can buy the gil for what I want" do alot of harm. This is not to say that all casual gamers are gilbuyers, or vice versa. In almost every intelligent discussion I've read regarding gilbuying this was the most often used rationalization.

This may be your opinion but a far higher majority of gil buyers are hard core gamers. You can't say they aren't hardcore gamers because they buy gil, they are the same hardcore gamers who bot/hack/mpk. their is a good amount of relic weapon who are upgraded thru purchased gil/stolen gil gear from accounts. While looking at this we are going to have to say casual gamers do some buy gil of course but on average they don't care enough to buy gil.

Casual gamers are often the people that have to have a party nearly fully assembled in order to participate. They also are the ones that if XP isn't meeting their expectations have "connection issues". Casual gamers should realize that endgame, is not the game. If you need to be PL'd beyond level 32, then that means you should learn your job and how to co-operate with others. The mad dash to get to level 75 without taking the time to get there just means you get people at endgame that don't know their jobs, and goddess forbid you should mention that too them.

In my experiance casual gamers are far more take w/e they can get due to low play time. Alot of people get pled past 32 thats not a casual/hardcore issue more of a lazy issue of people not wanting to learn their job. And jobs in endgame arnt exactly complicated over all lol. Coming up with strategys was maybe the hardest part lol.

TP burns are just another progression of the notion that I have to get there "NOW". This isn't a console game, it doesn't end. If you finish every quest, obtain every item, level everything to 75 with max merits and max experience, the only thing you have accomplished is running out of things to do for yourself.

Tp burns are very fun/effective actually. If you burn or regular party you are going to be fighting the same group of mobs. So if you have an option to get 20k+ and hour or 10k hr for fighting the same mobs why would you chose the lower exp. I think everyone is under the notion that they nerfed regular parties. I don't hear people crying about other progression. I mean if they didn't wat to change the effectivness of jobs we can always get rid of the merit system, new spells like absorb-tp, progression is just a normal fact of life/games.

TP burns are bad, so where manaburns, arrowburns, shadowburns, and every other burn party conceived. The game is about playing it, not about reaching whatever end the player perceives. You don't win a medal or a million Yen/Dollars/Pounds/Rupees/whatever for finishing a game that wasn't designed to end. So just play the game, instead of rushing to get past it so quickly. My opinion is if you are trying to hard to fly through game then I should help. Here is my secret for conquering FFXI:
Consider yourself the master at it and stop playing it as soon as possible, because only then will you be finished with it.

I think its still immensely hypocritical of SE to have nerf RNG so hard two years ago and not do a thing about TP burn trends. You can't look at that nerf or even the adjustment that finally came and tell my RNGs didn't ultimately get a raw deal when you look at EXP PTs doing the EXACT SAME THING RNGs were punished for.

Thank freaking GOD I'm not the only one who is pissed off at this. SE neuters my favorite job, only so that other jobs can do the exact same thing at no consequence? I call BULL SHIT on SE.

Ok this is another general misconseption. Manaburns and Arrowburns got nerfed due to their effectivness in endgame. They did NOT get nerfed due to their exp bonus. "But you can TP KIRIN ORZ!!!" yes you can tp burn kirin with the best of the best gear taking great ls years to get the items, so no tp burn is not as effective as mananburn/arrowburn was or even how effective smn burn is now in endgame. S-E is not going to nerf exp system guys, hell if they do my pt cant get chain 5 and you can you should be nerfed!

BBQ i really had more faith that you wouldn't fail to realize why the rng nerfed happened again S-E really isn't going to nerf a job over exp system... again (tp nerf). Rngs got unnerfed tho which is very nice. Rng being your main job during the nerf right? I am surprised you of all people would then call for the nerf, hypocrit amirite?

Ok so we know your extremely baised about the issue, again read my above replies and see how they didnt get nerfed for exp but for endgame.

SE's stance that they intended the zones to be like this is pure bullshit, you're kidding yourself if you really believed them when they said they wanted these trends to take place. They made a mistake and now that its popular for everyone to exploit these mobs they are frightened to reverse that mistake.
But I'm going to say this guys, I do just fine at my job, as do BLMs. I have no problems keeping my RNG's EXP capped and merritted.

Look at the zones BBQ 5~10 min respawns versus the 16 min of old camps. Colibri as the main target for all tp burns at the start imps 2. Colbiri have relfect or mimic ability basically say screw you mages, but at the same time they added pyshical resists magic weak mobs for the mages to exp offer. So if you look it the burn pt style was allowed to happen not pushed but definatly given a chance.

However, I'm kinda tired hearing people act like a WHM, PLD, BLM, SMN, RNG or what-have-you in their merit PT being like a fly in thier soup. Because WHO IS IT you turn to when you need the big monsters killed and the steady DoT. Who is it you call to tank or heal you?
Uh, that would be WHM, PLD, BLM, SMN and RNG.
And don't even get me started on your lolDRKing. Who is it you turn to for that utterly broken, K Club Burn deal?
Oh right, DRK. How is helping a DRK in your LS going to slow you down? Some of my best merit PTs had DRKs. They're good w/o K Clubs, too.
Give em love, people.

Actaully I don't know where you got all this from but!!!
Whm- Tends to get alot of burn pts, rdm usually gets first invite but they get a good deal of burn pts with no one complaining.
Pld- Doesn't get alot of burn pt at all, ninja's only get a few more burn pts then they do but ninja's get more pts overall.
Blm- Don't get any burn invites at all, they manaburn in mount zhalom for amazing exp so really I fail to see the issue with blms.
Smn- Smn burn pts are great as well not to mention they can solo for exp amazing, so again they don't get burn pts but one of the best soloers I mean seriously do you need to have everything?
Rng- Rngs tend to do great in burn pts, if they have meleeing/ ws gear they are great in burn pts and i usually welcome them. Alot of rangers don't invest in a meleeing set of gear so its not the burn pt's fault it would be the lazy/cheap ranger
Drk- Kraken dark is so freaking broken if any thing needs to be fixed its this lmao. And darks get into burn pts alot too lmao your server must not use people right drk/nin dual axes or axe/kraken is amazing.

Yes it's up to date, but I posted this some time ago and it was in reference to my Tarutaru Hanyou, whom I've decided to stop leveling altogether (finally)

Ok then did you attempt to solo before you posted a rant, did you solo and get great exp or could you say you were too lazy to try soloing so you just decided to rant and blame someone else. was thier alot of people in your level range or was it just a few so you decided to blame tp burn pts becuase thier wasnt enough seeking. Do you have a bad rep on your server, so maybe thats why invites are slacking?

Jumping and blamin something else is easy isnt it?

SE was saying they're working on new ways for us to EXP, so I'm hoping that by no later than WotG's release we'll have new camps and strategies. I think there should be an EXP bonus on IT mobs from Signet to encourage the old SC + MB style parties.
Getting rid of TP burns would be stupid. It's a great way for melee jobs to gather and churn out huge amounts of EXP. What needs to happen is to give the same opportunities to more kinds of parties so that there aren't any jobs getting excluded from the prosperity.

I completly agree with you here mal i think they should boost signet exp to make the old pts better and allow everyone to exp w/o a b c jobs calling for a nerf of d e f jobs, its just getting very old.

Oh, and SE may as well go and undo the ranged nerfing now to be honest. Missions aside (which have already been toned down immensely recently, IMO) I seriously doubt it would affect end game EXP all that much. Even with RNG doing the damage it used to against VT and IT mobs, I doubt they can keep up with WAR and MNK nowadays. I could be wrong, but why should one job class suffer while the other DD are getting away with murder?
I'm still of the opinion that it was the multi hit TP nerf that caused things to spiral out of control the way they have. You think RNG would have ever gotten so popular otherwise? You think WAR and MNK would be rocking TP burns? Hell no. It would be DRG and SAM owning the mire with penta thrust these days.
I'm not saying that would necessarily be a good thing, but SE did state that they would be tweaking multi hit WS in the future again. They didn't say how, just that they would.
Who knows? Maybe they'll sober up and try to fix the mess that is end game EXP.

Ranger if equiped right (goos gil) can keep up with war a mnks in burn pts, was impressed with a rng the other day, its al about effort male alot of people don't want to put in effort then cry about it thats really the only reason these topics annoy me the whole /point /cry /nerf topics are getting old.

Indeed, but sadly the RNG nerf was due to all those players crying and complaining about it. Although I wouldn't be surprised if SE used arrow-burn parties as the prototypes for Aht Urgan's xp camps.

Ray I had thought this as well they used the arrow burn exp idea to help boost exp/hr and we have since taken great hold of it. Btw arrowburns in aht urghan areas are so much fun. And yes the rng burn was sad because it was from topics like this everyone crying but again rng burn in endgame was broken, not as bad as drk kraken and cor now tho.

Great, another KI reject.
Insert, congratulations, I don't think I've read such undiluted drivel in a long time, you actually beat my previous expectations of how far from reality a person could be.

Didn't a few topics back you complain i belittled a poster? Hi2U hyporacy

As for the subject at hand, I believe they need to stamp out burn parties. However, S-E know about the problem then go and release an expansion that caters to three figure limit breaks which people consistently achieve. I don't know how they can in all conscience claim to support the, "Don't forget about your family and friends" message they slap on their game and then put the scripts in for limit breaks than can only be obtained by ridiculously unhealthy hours of unbroken gaming. Unless I'm wrong here and you can achieve limit 173 for example in an hour or over a few hours with breaks away from the screen.

This is the kind of bs that makes me laugh about people who want tp burn gone. What is wrong with parties constantly getting high chains? that means people have learned how to use the exp system amirite? seriously come with a real idea if you want this gone oh btw are you another person complaining because you don't burn, jealousy isn't very good/

As I've said many times before, increase the level on Utsusemi: Ni and you go a long way to removing the burn parties. Problem is then, all the burn party favourite jobs cry into their cornflakes and the subscription numbers fall. And, as I said above, if S-E wanted to discourage burn parties why did they introduce an expansion that is a burn party's wet dream?

Wow lol ya lets increase ni so rdms/nin can now be pissed, and pld/nin which gave plds a huge revial in endgame, and really made them imho best endgame tank, lets breaj them too, not to mention half the jobs in the game. While at it lets remove AM, Stoneskin, blink, raise (as a sub job spell) remove whm from smns, lets get rid of those pesky refresh spells. Grizzlebeard im sorry but that may have been the dumbest statement i have ever read.

So I take it you want to make fun of burn parties crying if you severly nerf them, I mean your bowl of cornflakes is easly over flowing with your own tears.

S-E didn't want to discourage burn pts who said they wanted to lol, all the new mobs would be wivre like if they wanted to lmao. Their are mobs for:
Arrowburn
Manaburn
Tp Burn
Wyvern Burn
Smn Burn

not to mention solo so unless i missed some huge statement from S-E saying "Ya we gonna nerf all sorts of burn exp, so please wait while we add the expansion to fix it" ya your s-e wanting to remove them is bs, and I'm calling you on it.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Didn't a few topics back you complain i belittled a poster? Hi2U hyporacy

No, I complained because you posted retarded images to belittle a poster because you lacked the ability to explain your point with words apparently. Oh, and it's hypocrisy.

This is the kind of bs that makes me laugh about people who want tp burn gone. What is wrong with parties constantly getting high chains? that means people have learned how to use the exp system amirite?

How was my statement incorrect? How many hours, approximately, of continual play does it take to achieve chain 173? You think, unlike all medical evidence to the contrary, that sitting in front of a tv or pc screen for 3+ hours without a break is healthy?

seriously come with a real idea if you want this gone oh btw are you another person complaining because you don't burn, jealousy isn't very good

It's a real idea, I'm only sorry it's beyond your mental capacity to understand. As for the joining in burn parties, I was in more than enough as a ninja in my time to realise I fucking hated them. However, if you think hours of unbroken gaming with little to no communication between other party members while jamming the same two to three keys in the same order is the future of gaming then more power to you.

Wow lol ya lets increase ni so rdms/nin can now be pissed, and pld/nin which gave plds a huge revial in endgame, and really made them imho best endgame tank, lets breaj them too, not to mention half the jobs in the game.

Guess what, FFXI isn't a game for solo players. I don't give a fuck if bumping Ni up to 38 causes RDMs, or THFs, or WARs to shed tears. Utsusemi: Ni as a subbed ability is a game-breaking mechanic that should have been nipped in the bud long ago. It's really tragic that Utsusemi: Ni and the laziness in playstyle in encourages is so entrenched in players' minds that it's unthinkable for most jobs not to have it levelled at 75.

Grizzlebeard im sorry but that may have been the dumbest statement i have ever read.

Knock yourself out.