What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

[Richie]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Wow this is long. I skimmed through most of it so if someone already said this then oops.

I'm sick of sitting in white gate with 30 people LFG for a merit pt but no one wants to start one or join my group when I start one because there are no bards online.
It's like they forgot it was possible to gain XP without a bard. What gets your more xp? Sitting in whitegate waiting 2 hours for a bard or partying without a bard?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Its pretty much the same thing as RNG pre-nerf, you couldn't get a PT to leave Jeuno if you didn't have at least one RNG, two was even better. It was infuriating at times, becuse you had like 30 other melees the same level seeking and the leader wouldn't invite them.

I took advantage of the fact that I was a BRD at that time, I just left those PTs. I figured turnabout was fair play on such leaders, so I'd go EXP with those other melees seeking instead and take the others with me.

[Legal Fish]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

I've seen non-Ridill WARs outparse Ridill WARs

I call bullshit on this. The Ridil WAR had to be wearing some pretty lol gear or at least main handing the Ridil for this to happen.

[Malacite]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Its pretty much the same thing as RNG pre-nerf, you couldn't get a PT to leave Jeuno if you didn't have at least one RNG, two was even better. It was infuriating at times, becuse you had like 30 other melees the same level seeking and the leader wouldn't invite them.

I took advantage of the fact that I was a BRD at that time, I just left those PTs. I figured turnabout was fair play on such leaders, so I'd go EXP with those other melees seeking instead and take the others with me.

You get a free Thanks for that ^^b

[Amele]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

Hmm. How often does that "we" there include PLD? THF? SMN? BST? BLM? ... PUP?!
Can that "we" ever be formed without a BRD? Would you be thanking your stars if you're invited to a TP spam party without one?
* * *

yes, and yes. I've partied without bards semi regularly. you don't go to nyzul camp without a bard, but you can and do do fine without one. (the rdm pulls typically in this case, since he can sleep stuff too.) as for those jobs in specific: I've pt'd semi-regularly with all of them except for pup (because I don't know any 75 pups and never see one seeking) and blackmages I've only partied with in manaburns (usually KRT) summoner I usually only pt with when it's an ls party, because pickups don't invite two healer-only party members.

WS spam party is good, but the problem is that it's too good compared to other setups. I don't think the majority of players against them want them to be nerfed out of existence, but merely want the difference between WS spam and SC+MB parties to be reduced.

name jobs besides blackmage (which can do 15k/hr in another party setup) that can't fit into a modern merit party? at least when compared to arrowburns the DD selection is more diverse than ranger and sam/rng.

Ultimately, I want every job to be able to exp in full party of some sort. Without begging or taking pity invites "because there's no one else seeking". >_>; Also, I want no job to be an absolute requirement--there shouldn't be a requirement for BRD before WS Spam or any other sort of party can hit "par" in exp/hour.

SC+MB requires a blackmage. ws spam without a bard is rarely better than 12k/hr unless your melee are absolutely *pimp*. SC+MB when done smart on the right mobs (sup qutrub) can match that without a bard.

I appreciate that tanks don't always want to DD and would rather, well. tank. I'd sure like to get to use spells besides cure III, cure V, regen III, haste, and Silence - but I have endgame events for that; so do tanks.

[Sevv]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

You're right and I thank you for being open minded enough to bring along some of those "less desired" jobs. I especially like the first layout -- thf bst and smn.

That was a very fun party all LS PT, as well.

That's about as unloved as it gets. However, I can't help but notice that the bare minimum amount of Warriors in those set ups is 2. The only layout that doesn't have a Bard has 4 people who use Rampage.
It's like "we can take some of those jobs, but we need to be at least half ideal?"

This was mainly because that was who was seeking from my ls or their friends at the time. Penta on a drg/sam works just as well.

I know this sounds like I'm bitching but honestly... I think this is exactly where we need to start. Having an almost-perfect TP burn party with a few underloved jobs tossed in and performing no worse for it. Not only does this do the obvious - getting a few of those guys spots in parties that'll get more than 5k/hour - it also exposes the top dog jobs to what those dragoons and beastmasters can do.

Before I leveled my war you know I was a Dragoon. I was the drg/sam in a pt keeping up in the parse. Sadly most of the 75 drgs on ifrit have bad gear/don't care and quickly got the invite rate for most drgs down again. Beastmasters on ifrit never were lfp but maybe one or two of them who I use to invite. Bst are war with pets basically lol. Like you say this is a start, well maybe for some people but this is usually how I party. Mainly i hope that the others will do it too but who knows, that is why I'm defensive about tp burns.

I would like some of my mage friends to see what my DRG friends are capable of w/out making my DDs /anon.

Drg is one of the most under rated dds other than bst, but each drg has to really take pride in their job to do great (not saying your friends don't)

Baby steps.

Now to get it to spread past the people who have been doing it.

I call bullshit on this. The Ridil WAR had to be wearing some pretty lol gear or at least main handing the Ridil for this to happen.

I call bs on you bs... I outparsed ridill warriors in my ls, and he didn't have lolgear. By 7% as well lol.

[Amele]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

I call bs on you bs... I outparsed ridill warriors in my ls, and he didn't have lolgear. By 7% as well lol.

well, ignoring for a second that up to 3% is within the margin of error for an exp parse (since you claim 7%):

what job were you on? what weapon(s) were you using? excluding ridill what was the rest of his gear like? (how much haste, how much accuracy) was he eating the right food for his setup? which axe was he mainhanding? who was tanking? (tanking can easily trim 5%+ off your Damage potential)

basically there's alot of ways a war/ridill can lose a parse. but that's sort of the point - unless your gearset is sick or you're a BB monk or another ridill war, you don't win the parse as much as that ridill war just lost the parse.

*disclaimer: I don't think that ridill wars are the end-all-be-all melee damage class in the game, in fact, in many situations that ridill can actually be a liability. But! for merit purposes, if you had to pick one 'king' - it's hard not to vote for the ridill.

[Sevv]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

well, ignoring for a second that up to 3% is within the margin of error for an exp parse (since you claim 7%):
what job were you on? what weapon(s) were you using? excluding ridill what was the rest of his gear like? (how much haste, how much accuracy) was he eating the right food for his setup? which axe was he mainhanding? who was tanking? (tanking can easily trim 5%+ off your Damage potential)
basically there's alot of ways a war/ridill can lose a parse. but that's sort of the point - unless your gearset is sick or you're a BB monk or another ridill war, you don't win the parse as much as that ridill war just lost the parse.
*disclaimer: I don't think that ridill wars are the end-all-be-all melee damage class in the game, in fact, in many situations that ridill can actually be a liability. But! for merit purposes, if you had to pick one 'king' - it's hard not to vote for the ridill.

1) My war
2) Man-Eater ~ Joy
3) Good Normal war gear not gimped.
4) Juggy
5) I was tanking

[Lmnop]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

BS on the BS of BSs or something. I'll just note that:

YES, a Ridill Warrior can be outparsed. A Ridill Warrior that doesn't have sword merits and lacks a haste set up. They'd still have a good set up (2x Woodsmans, haub, normal decent AH gear). In fact, since I only play 8-10 hours/week, this is a lot like what my equipment is. I think I do pretty well. But if I had a Ridill, i'd do twice as well.

Now look at the Warrior who has time and does pretty much every end game activity on a regular basis. With some excellent gear, an axe/axe build can keep up. This is mainly because your Rampages aren't lol and your per-swing damage is monstrous. Said Warrior attaining a Ridill is when we get what I'd like to call "broken."

Also, it's amazing how much more damage/fight you get if you're the first to engage. Ever notice how the NIN vokes and the DDs rush to meet it instead of standing by the NIN? The standers are 3-4 seconds behind on swing time from the rushers. That's potentially 100 damage lost. Doesn't seem like much but when everyone's doing 9-1400 damage/fight, that's ~8% of your damage.

Annnnnd one more thing: Ridill Warriors will pull hate and get Feather Tickled more. :P

[Amele]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

3) Good Normal war gear not gimped.

wanted more specific, but I guess it's not really a big deal. outparsing a warrior with another warrior isn't news, especially since I'd assume you had sword merits if you were using a joyeuse offhand.

would you agree that if you had all of your gear, but a ridill instead of a joyeuse, that you would outparse yourself? I think that's the thrust of what others (and certainly myself) have been trying to say.

[Sevv]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

wanted more specific, but I guess it's not really a big deal. outparsing a warrior with another warrior isn't news, especially since I'd assume you had sword merits if you were using a joyeuse offhand.
would you agree that if you had all of your gear, but a ridill instead of a joyeuse, that you would outparse yourself? I think that's the thrust of what others (and certainly myself) have been trying to say.

Oh i'm not saying that me with a ridill wouldn't be better because it would i was simply responding to brp's you can't do that comment. My war gear is set - ridill aberk lol. or maybe a +1 here or there.

[Legal Fish]

Re: What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to doubt you. There must have been something the WAR was doing to make himself fall behind, especially if you were both WAR and you weren't tanking advantage of some kind ability or monster weakness. He probably should of been main handing Maneater... was he eating Sushi? When you say decent gear, do you mean worst than yours? By how much?