Will SE give crafters some kind of preferred crafter bonus at their shops?

[Vyuru]

Alot of times a guild shop will be sold out of a particular item. A common case in point is for the Weaving guild shops to be sold out of Saruta Cotton, Cotton Thread, Linen Thread, and Crawler Cocoons. I've noticed that the Fishing guild shops are sold out of Cobalt Jellyfish constantly.

Often some of these items are bought and then taken straight to the AH to be listed at a price far higher than what they can be gotten at the NPC for.

So my question to SE is:

Will SE allow crafters to place an order with their respective guild, to their respective guild's supplier, based upon their crafting rank, to be delivered to the crafting shop where the order was placed the next time they receive a load of supplies?

My thought is fairly simple. Once you gain the rank of Initiate in a guild, you may now place an order with their guild shop. The amount of delivery slots you can order varies with your rank. As a Initiate, you can order one delivery slot. So you can either order one nonstackable item, or 1-12 of a stackable item, 1-99 of an item for some items that stack to 99.

Once you gain Novice, you may order two delivery slots, and so on up to Veteran and 8 delivery slots. You can go to the shop you ordered these items from to receive them once they get their shipment in the next day, two days in the event that the next day is a guild holiday.

The Initiate rank was arbitrarily chosen since that is the rank you must be before accepting guild contracts, this is the rank where they judge you as one of them really. This may or may not need to be limited to the guild you are contracted with, so if you are contracted with the Weaving guild you may not place orders with the Blacksmithing guild.

These orders would be priced at the level as if the shop had full stock, and a minor fee of something between 10-50 gil per delivery slot should also be charged.

This question is only partly because it would be nice to be able to acquire some items without paying an arm and a leg for them.

The main reason I ask this is because I know of alot of people who buy up all the supply of a common ingredient and sell it for higher, alot of times these are people who I either know or suspect to be gil sellers. Now I know that not all people who do this are gil sellers, and I'm sure that not people who do this don't do it for 24/7, but I do know that a certain naked lvl 1 Galka named CobaltJellyFish has been sitting by the Windurst Fishing guild shop almost since I started this game and has been controling I'd say a good 70% of the market for them.

If SE isn't going to just stand by while people monoplize NMs, why should they stand by while people monoplize NPC shops? Perhaps that is a little too strong, so I'll say instead that I do not think it is right that people are allowed to monoplize NPC shops, and this should make it so that crafting materials are not so easy to control on the AH as some have been in the past.

[Sabaron]

Re: Will SE give crafters some kind of preferred crafter bonus at their shops?

I think I posted something along these lines some time ago and I totally agree. I would also like the guild to accept "commissions" like reverse AH things. So often, there's some item I want that no one makes. It would be really useful to be able to just drop off an order and then have it conveniently shipped to my house when complete. It also provides an alternative vehicle for crafters to get rid of merchandise without the risk of AH (buyer eats the fees in this case).

Imagine... just pop into the Guild Shop after making that lovely Penance Robe and find 5 people who want one--highest bidder gets first dibs of course.

Having both an AH and Commissioned Sales would add great dynamics to the economy.

[Karinya]

Re: Will SE give crafters some kind of preferred crafter bonus at their shops?

While I agree that the NPC shop prices are out of line with the player economy and lead to frequent exploitation, I'm not sure that this is a good solution. Many RMT are also crafters, and in any case it seems that this would even further reduce the value of farming or other money-making activities to the average non-RMT player (already struggling to meet stubbornly high consumable costs in the face of the collapsing market in pretty much everything farmable).

I think it would be better to increase the supply of these overly-scarce items by increasing their drop rates from the corresponding mobs and/or activities (HELM, fishing). AH prices would drop, but considering the increased volume, farmers of those items might still wind up better off per hour of moneymaking activity (while the crafters pay less per point of skillup). And the shop-exploiters, whether RMT or not, would still be screwed. :)

NPC shops, whether guild or otherwise, should very seldom be a desirable source of anything (except things with literally no other source). That undermines the player economy and creates a gilsink that further contributes to deflation. Loosening the chokehold on volume through the guild shops would worsen the problem, not solve it.

[Vyuru]

Re: Will SE give crafters some kind of preferred crafter bonus at their shops?

Karinya, you bring up some good points, but I am of the opinion that this shouldn't have much of an impact on non RMT farmers.

Bah, someone called and I have to head off somewhere, so I can't give this all the detail I wanted to, so this will be kinda quick, and well as such my arguements may not be as good.

Many RMT are also crafters, and in any case it seems that this would even further reduce the value of farming or other money-making activities to the average non-RMT player

While it's true alot of RMT are crafters, and possibly high level crafters at that, I don't think it would impact farmers as much as you suggest. A lot of players will still go and purchase things from the Jeuno/Whitegate auction houses because they are too lazy to travel. A prime example of this are the lvl 22-34 bard Etude songs which can all be bought in Jeuno, are being sold for 3-5x their price on the Jeuno AH, 5 feet from the shop they can be boughten from.

Linkie: http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.ph...search_q=etude

There are other examples of cheap items being sold for up to 10x thier NPC price, but that is just one. So I think it is fair to say that people are lazy, and will still often buy from the easy convenient AH rather than walking to the shop to buy it for much cheaper, even if that shop is in the same city, or section of city as you are in.

Heck I've seen people pay 3k for a stack of Distilled Water back in the day when Fire Crystals where 3k/stack, and were "THE" main synthing crystal.

Also, this impacts a very few items that are commonly sold out at guild shops. While I have not checked them all, and this may be different for different servers, most of the items that are not typically sold out can be obtained cheaper via the Auction Houses

Guild merchant linkie:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Guild_Merchant

I would estimate that this *should* only affect maybe 3-4 items per guild, most of the other stuff is not commonly bought.

For instance with the weaving guild, I would expect this would primarily impact Crawler Cocoons and Saruta Cotton. Saruta Cotton is sold out 24/7, while the Crawler Cocoons can be hit or miss, either they have a ton up or are sold out. Silk Threads may or may not be bought out, while it really depends for the other threads/cloths when they are bought out.

I think it would be better to increase the supply of these overly-scarce items by increasing their drop rates from the corresponding mobs and/or activities (HELM, fishing).

I think that HELM activities are profitable enough already, the only problem with them is that there are alot of items that people view as junk and do not want to buy, or pay much for. Same for the various crafts, there are alot of synths that people view as not worthwhile and people sell rather cheaply. I could buy Wool Slacks, a GP item, for about 1k on the AH, I think a NPC sells them in Jeuno for 17k or so. That's just one example, of what, now I forget, but I'm sure it was a good one! :P

Bah, someone called and I have to head off somewhere, so I can't give this all the detail I wanted to, so this will be kinda quick, and well as such my arguements may not be as good.

NPC shops, whether guild or otherwise, should very seldom be a desirable source of anything (except things with literally no other source). That undermines the player economy and creates a gilsink that further contributes to deflation. Loosening the chokehold on volume through the guild shops would worsen the problem, not solve it.

I actually prefer NPC shops, yes it is a gil sink, but it is typically one where I can:

1) get the best price for my goods

2) while their prices may vary, I will probably never be ripped off by them, AH prices have been high enough that I would not buy something there and the NPC is sold out very often.

3) I do not have to support the behavior of people I do not like. The behavior of certain individuals has made me mad enough that quite frankly I will not buy from them. I refused to buy Sniper Rings due to the RMT campers rampant unchecked MPK/griefing/mob holding/price guaging tactics, this has become a somewhat similar situation in some cases.


There are many things that non RMT farmers could farm for that would not be affected by this, especially if they had any sort of craft leveled. There are many good repeatable quests that can be done for gil if someone wanted to go that route. I don't think that having more items obtainable through Guild Suppliers would affect them much, if at all.

Keep in mind, it normally takes one game day to reach the shop you placed the order at. For the woodworking, smithing, goldsmithing, and I'm not sure what else guilds, 80% of your base ingredients do not stack. Logs do not stack, ores do not stack, hides do not stack, so it is not like you will be able to go on a crafting spree readily. It will take a couple of game days to actually get all the materials for a stack of items this way.

You need what, 4 ores on average to make an Ingot? As a Veteran, you can order 8 slots/day? so it will take 6 game days, possibly more depending on guild holiday, in order to make a stack of Ingots? So some guilds may be affected by this more so than others.

Now the above statement should be taken with a grain of salt, I have not checked to see which Ingots, Sheets, Lumber, and Leathers are available for sale, and which are commonly used or deemed valuable, and all of those stack.


EDIT:

Just thought of something to add.

The reason I am thinking of lazy players is why I said that you should have to go to the shop to place the order, and to pick up your order. This requires traveling to and from, you will of course need to have the appropriate amount of empty inventory slots in order to pick up your goods, introducing another minor hassle. I feel that this alone will weed out the people who really need something from those who want to make a quick buck, not all, but a goodly portion.

Also, I didn't say it earlier but I think that you have to go to a specific guild shop if you want a specific good. For example Karakul Threads can only be obtained at the Al Zhabi Weaving Guild shop. If you want to place an order for them you have to go there to do it.



I kinda think this would be great for crafters, it provides a moderate gil sink that you should be able to profit from, all sorts of things that are normally out of stock can now be bought and used for skillups. Bird Feathers for Bird Fletchings are a good one, there are a host of new skillup synths that should make lvling Weaving easier in the 60+ range and I have been told this is also the case for the other crafts, so maybe I'm looking a bit too hard at the perceived benefits but I think this would be a great way to go about getting more items and stuff.

[Malacite]

Re: Will SE give crafters some kind of preferred crafter bonus at their shops?

Actually HELM results used to be a lot better until SE nerfed them due to RMT abuse.
I'd like to see increase the results, but also change the system.


I'll use mining as an example:

With the current system, a mining point will randomly pop somewhere on the map (cycling through pre-chosen locations) and depending on gear and how long you've been in the area, can give varying results (often crap in my experience)

Add to this that there are still people who like to "claim jump" you and work on a mining point you're already mining and it gets frustrating rather quickly.


Instead, I think it would be better for all of us (and more fun) if SE changed each area to have a few designated, inexhaustible mining points where people can gather to chat and mine away. Fatigue and gear would still matter of course, but now you won't have to be fighting with everyone else in the area.


I also think mining, harvesting, logging and excavating should be made into skills much like fishing. That is, they don't count towards for 40 levels above 60 (though they could possibly count against fishing itself)


These skills should improve over time based on what items you collect and your level of fatigue. Repeated activity should increase fatigue as well, much like with fishing so as to prevent abuse. The skill itself should reduce fatigue accumulated over time and also improve yields.


Example:

Miner A and Miner B are both mining away in Zeruhn Mines. A has a skill level of 50, while B is only 30. Now, while both of them are skilled enough for such an "easy" area that they won't tire too quickly or dig up nothing but junk, Miner A will have a much better chance at mining up the rare and elusive Darksteel Ore.

As of yet, I'm unsure if high-end results (such as say, Platinum Ore) should affect how much fatigue is accumulated as a kind of cheesy balancing factor.

[Tekumel]

Re: Will SE give crafters some kind of preferred crafter bonus at their shops?

Malacite, while your idea sounds tempting at first, after considering it, I don't think it's a good idea at all.

Let's face it...RMT don't care about fishing fatigue, why would they give a rat's ass about mining fatigue? Unless it brought it to the point where you're breaking a pick every swing, they're still going to make money off of it. And I don't doubt at all you'd see a bot at every point in the lowbie zones like Zeruhn & Yughott. If nothing else, it'd be even cheaper for them to supply their smithing crafters with materials, increasing their profit there if not on sold ores.

[Malacite]

Re: Will SE give crafters some kind of preferred crafter bonus at their shops?

I know, but I just figured it would be a more fun and realistic option. The main idea was to increase the general supply of items too, as anyone who's tried to mine their own materials knows what a ***** it can be to get enough ore to level at a decent rate.

It just always struck me as odd that when inside a mine, I can't just go and hack away anywhere I please regardless of whether or not I find ore.

[Vyuru]

Re: Will SE give crafters some kind of preferred crafter bonus at their shops?

Well, this'll go slightly off topic.

For HELM activities, I'd actually much prefer if it was more like fishing. Take mining for instance. I'd much rather have it so that you go in, you can mine anywhere you want to in the zone, and maybe you get something, or maybe you don't. Basically eliminate the harvest/mining/logging points. As it stands the HELM points in some zones can be easily monopolized by a few players just camping each point which I really don't like.

I'd rather have an actual skill that affects your digging ability, and maybe make it so that certain almost certain death areas such as Ifrit's Cauldron give a better rare ore dig rate than the lower level areas.

To prevent people abusing this and sending in a horde of lvl 1 players to dig there I would also put a level restriction on sneak/invis items so that if you are a low enough level in that area, say under 30, which is pretty fair for an area with mobs that can kill a lvl 75, then the sneak/invis items/spells have no effect and the mobs can aggro you anyway.

[Malacite]

Re: Will SE give crafters some kind of preferred crafter bonus at their shops?

Well, this'll go slightly off topic.
For HELM activities, I'd actually much prefer if it was more like fishing. Take mining for instance. I'd much rather have it so that you go in, you can mine anywhere you want to in the zone, and maybe you get something, or maybe you don't. Basically eliminate the harvest/mining/logging points. As it stands the HELM points in some zones can be easily monopolized by a few players just camping each point which I really don't like.
I'd rather have an actual skill that affects your digging ability, and maybe make it so that certain almost certain death areas such as Ifrit's Cauldron give a better rare ore dig rate than the lower level areas.

More or less what I already came up with :(

[Jei]

Re: Will SE give crafters some kind of preferred crafter bonus at their shops?

I really like this ordering idea

[Malacite]

Re: Will SE give crafters some kind of preferred crafter bonus at their shops?

As do I.

Sometimes I head out to Bibiki bay to buy out the cobalt jellyfish since they're the cheapest there (rarely is it sold out) so I can cheaply amass stacks of Mercury.

Now then, what tends to drive me insane more than any other guild item is Tarutaru rice. I'm well aware that this can be grown, but I personally loath gardening and the insane multitude of factors that affect plant yields.

Other hot items usually include arrowwood logs and bronze ingots to name a few. For years I've hated how some people camp the guild shops to purposely buy out the entire stock of an item as soon as it's available, merely to sell it back on the AH.

While technically this isn't against the ToS, it is IMO an unethical, underhanded tactic to make money. This is vastly different from some idiot paying 3k for a stack of distilled water (which is readily available 24/7 dirt cheap).

It's extortion, regardless of how you look at it.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Will SE give crafters some kind of preferred crafter bonus at their shops?

Off topic, but since when does Jei = Jellyfish?!?

. . . I know penguins aren't hot anymore (Yellow Mage's Humor skill rises 0.1 points), but I missed Jei's Penguin avvie. Especially the cartoon one ^.^ .

Goin back on topic, this isn't a bad idea. Crafters have to usually spend tons just to get those skill-ups, so maybe this will help with that, even if by only an infinitismal (sp?) amount.

[Jonastb]

Re: Will SE give crafters some kind of preferred crafter bonus at their shops?

A suggestion I had thought of a long time ago when everyone was buying up all the arrowwood lumber and huglely overpricing it was to make all RAW MATERIALS for the guild EX. This would include things like, for woodworking, logs and lumber. Smithing, ore and ingots. and so on.

Though RMT could still potentially abuse it, the AH can not. Increasing the supply would help a lot too. There are far more crafters on now than 2 years ago, so the supply should reflect that.

[Vyuru]

Re: Will SE give crafters some kind of preferred crafter bonus at their shops?

Free free FREE from tests for now! YYYAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY!

*Ahem*

WWWWHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

Ok, now that I have that out of my system.....

More or less what I already came up with :(

Slight difference, you'd rather have a few mining points that just stay there and I'd rather be able to mine anywhere in the mining zone. Also this way you could toss in a hidden spot that randomly changes locations where you have a better chance at digging up the rare ores or something.

Sometimes I head out to Bibiki bay to buy out the cobalt jellyfish since they're the cheapest there (rarely is it sold out)

I envy you, Cobalt Jellyfish are sold out everywhere on Unicorn last time I checked. Well, I think I could buy one from the Alchemy guild in Bastok for like 500 gil or something like that, but that doesn't really count :P

A suggestion I had thought of a long time ago when everyone was buying up all the arrowwood lumber and huglely overpricing it was to make all RAW MATERIALS for the guild EX.

I've heard this idea tossed around before. I kind of think it sounds interesting, but then when you think of SE talking about how there will be no X, Y, and Z because of memory limitations on the PS2, do we really want them to make EX duplicates of hundreds of items? I'd rather they used that memory to expand mog houses or something cool like that.


However, I wonder if they could make like a crafting zone, you have access to a (mostly) unlimited supply of crafting materials, the catch? You cannot leave the zone with any of them.

Kinda like how in Pokemon you always have to use the Safari Balls in the Safari Zone, but you never could take them out of there.

I dunno, I'm not really in favor of a crafting zone idea, although it might work, I like my original idea better.

[Malacite]

Re: Will SE give crafters some kind of preferred crafter bonus at their shops?

Each guild could maybe have a newly added section where you can pay an entry to get inside and craft to your heart's content.


There would likely be additional fees for higher level or excess amounts of material though .(SE would NOT want anyone to have an unlimited supply of orichalcum for instance)


Or, maybe you simply can not leave with anything you made. Instead, it would all go to the guild, perhaps for points or what have you. The same room could also be used for commissions.

E.g, the guild wants a certain amount of X items similar to how you obtain guild points, but doesn't have the time to do it, so they "hire" you? It could for anything, even replacing low stocks of an item (e.g. someone bought all the bronze ingots, so they want to have you craft more)


This would be really fun IMO. It's too bad everything is done by crystals though. Flavorful as it is for the storyline, it would be cool to actually go into a guild, pick up some tools and start making stuff.

I want to operate the blast furnace in the Metalworks ; ;