Why don't town/outpost guards protect citzens of the allied nations?

[Macht]

Re: Why don't town/outpost guards protect citzens of the allied nations?

Explain Garrison then. Trade an item, guard NPCs show up and fight alongside you.

Not only that just look at FFXII, you'll come across NPCs fighting eachother in there. FFXII was built off of FFXI's engines and the NPCs interactions like you see is part of it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Why don't town/outpost guards protect citzens of the allied nations?

Not only that just look at FFXII, you'll come across NPCs fighting eachother in there. FFXII was built off of FFXI's engines and the NPCs interactions like you see is part of it.

Yeah, I realize most NPC fighters are in specialized fields like BCNM, Besieged or Assault, but there's also the escort NPCs and Garrison NPCs. They're not entirely helpless and appear in the normal field, so its not impossible for the current NPCs to be changed to function in this way.

Hell, NPC Fellows fight pretty well, too. You could just make the proposed guard of a level that they're capable of handling any threat in a particular zone. Only limitation I could think of would be how many times they'd respond do a specific player's call. If someone is just calling them to kill placeholder mobs for an NM, that could be a problem, but otherwise, I don't see an issue.

You could also just make an enchanted item that summons them, available via conquest points. Just keep a member equipped with one in case something happens.

[Macht]

Re: Why don't town/outpost guards protect citzens of the allied nations?

Well, I was mainly just pointing out that the ability is there. I'll have to re-confirm but I think all the the guard NPCs outside of the towns are strictly on PC models with the select few that are not suppose to fight like the chocobo sellers.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Why don't town/outpost guards protect citzens of the allied nations?

Explain Garrison then. Trade an item, guard NPCs show up and fight alongside you.

Why? You already did it for me.

Quite a big difference from a spawned event and all-around environmental change.

You may have forgotten but SE tried this before. At launch, it was a big thing. NPC vs NPC environments. We saw a gobbue eat a mandragora. But, it was too hard for them to implement. Which is why it is in FFXII and not FFXI.

There is a reason why Chocobo Racing is done with cutscenes and we don't have tetra master in-game. FFXI has a very limited "engine"(if that is even the right word).

[Macht]

Re: Why don't town/outpost guards protect citzens of the allied nations?

Why? You already did it for me.
Quite a big difference from a spawned event and all-around environmental change.
You may have forgotten but SE tried this before. At launch, it was a big thing. NPC vs NPC environments. We saw a gobbue eat a mandragora. But, it was too hard for them to implement. Which is why it is in FFXII and not FFXI.
There is a reason why Chocobo Racing is done with cutscenes and we don't have tetra master in-game. FFXI has a very limited "engine"(if that is even the right word).

Better wording is that it's very specialized, however still with how modular the command screens are there isn't much reason that they couldn't add tetra master in-game.

The chocobo racing was done with cutscenes and all because SE tried to make the races fair. They cut out players ability to do anything because of stuff like warp hacks and speed hacks. Making it were players did the race a fair result would not happen.

In most part stuff that development has taken out of FFXI has been because they could see it clearly hindering player's ability to advance. When that clear line starts to vanish and it isn't a problem they've been adding such things back in.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Why don't town/outpost guards protect citzens of the allied nations?

Why? You already did it for me.

Quite a big difference from a spawned event and all-around environmental change.

You may have forgotten but SE tried this before. At launch, it was a big thing. NPC vs NPC environments. We saw a gobbue eat a mandragora. But, it was too hard for them to implement. Which is why it is in FFXII and not FFXI.

There is a reason why Chocobo Racing is done with cutscenes and we don't have tetra master in-game. FFXI has a very limited "engine"(if that is even the right word).

You said it was not possible, you have not yet explained why it is not possible.

FFXII is handled by a totally different team, that's not even relevant to FFXI save for elements borrowed by the FFXII team.

Things that were not happening in FFXI before have been changed. Signet did not give an evasion, EXP buff and did not prevent TP loss while resting before. New mobs were just placed, another change. Old NMs are now pop NMs while other NMs now drop R/E items that didn't before.. It wasn't possible to have more storage space before, now we do. These are changes made to years-old content.

If everything was static and unchangeable once it was programmed into an MMORPG, all MMOs would be terrible. They have to be adaptive to fix problems and alter or conform to player trends.

Chocobo racing is done in CS so there is no third party tool influence like speed hacks. Tetra Master is not in the game because SE wanted you to make a separate subscription for that, I think that's pretty obvious as the software is a totally separate game. But SE could implement it if they really wanted to.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Why don't town/outpost guards protect citzens of the allied nations?

I guess they could add Tetra master, but it would probably have to work like Adventurer's Roll. Just thinking about it, it seems messy.

Things that were not happening in FFXI before have been changed. Signet now gives a bonus and changes the evasion and +hHP returns, no TP loss. These changed.

If you can't tell the different from stat additions to signet and... nevermind, this conversation is kind of pointless.

[Ziero]

Re: Why don't town/outpost guards protect citzens of the allied nations?

Actually there is NO PHYSICAL REASON for SE not allowing NPC guards to help other then the fact that they don't want to add that. It is not a programing thing in any way shape or form and it's almost silly to think it is. Random mobs killing other random mobs is one thing, but static, stationary guards killing monsters that are CFH'd withing a certain distance is something that will not unbalance anything. There are no NMs right near a gate that can have place holders be CFH'd on, and this doesn't have to be effective in every zone, just near the gates of the three starting cities.

But as I stated before, the only reason this wasn't added was because SE does not want to.

[eticket109]

Re: Why don't town/outpost guards protect citzens of the allied nations?

There are no NMs right near a gate that can have place holders be CFH'd on, and this doesn't have to be effective in every zone, just near the gates of the three starting cities.

OMG TEH NPCS ARE BOTTING JAGGEDY!!!1

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Why don't town/outpost guards protect citzens of the allied nations?

Actually there is NO PHYSICAL REASON for SE not allowing NPC guards to help other then the fact that they don't want to add that. It is not a programing thing in any way shape or form and it's almost silly to think it is. Random mobs killing other random mobs is one thing, but static, stationary guards killing monsters that are CFH'd withing a certain distance is something that will not unbalance anything. There are no NMs right near a gate that can have place holders be CFH'd on, and this doesn't have to be effective in every zone, just near the gates of the three starting cities.

But as I stated before, the only reason this wasn't added was because SE does not want to.

I think that's fine reasoning, SE would probably hold that position until there was a reason to do otherwise.

The conquest zones are ailing badly and with this recent Goblin Bounty Hunter placement, people are already complaining its more difficult to level in these older zones, its a change on par with the MPK adjustment and made exactly for the same reason the MPK adjustment was - to remove player and RMT abuse of the existing sytem.

Bur FFXI players are incredibly stubborn and don't want to steer from cookie-cutter thinking, they want stick to what they know. So an incentive must be given for players to change. I think this would be a constructive way to address the issue brought up by the GBH placement in last night's update and ToA's popularity.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Why don't town/outpost guards protect citzens of the allied nations?

Actually there is NO PHYSICAL REASON for SE not allowing NPC guards to help other then the fact that they don't want to add that.

Yes there is.

It's not just adding stats to a Status Effect. You have to create an element which is new to FFXI. And believe it or not, it NPC vs NPC is NPC vs NPC whether it involves Town guards or just monsters.

You guys just don't get it. It would be way too hard for SE to add, nigh impossible thanks to their current content schedule.

PS. HAY, STOP TELLING SE WHAT TO DO, THIS ISN'T A QUESTION.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Why don't town/outpost guards protect citzens of the allied nations?

Yes there is.

It's not just adding stats to a Status Effect. You have to create an element which is new to FFXI. And believe it or not, it NPC vs NPC is NPC vs NPC whether it involves Town guards or just monsters.

You guys just don't get it. It would be way too hard for SE to add, nigh impossible thanks to their current content schedule.

PS. HAY, STOP TELLING SE WHAT TO DO, THIS ISN'T A QUESTION.

You have yet to make any provide any evidence to support your claim that such a change is impossible. Just saying its impossible doesn't make it so. Again, we have several instances of NPC vs. NPC in the game already, it is not a new element, its just something that would have to be adjusted to function differently.

And this thread is not telling SE what to do. Its a pretty throw-away idea that could be implented in any number of ways. The purpose of this forum is to ask questions and give suggestions, something for SE to go back on.

What you do not only fails to consider the sticky post's rules - its not posted tactfully, but in an insulting way, which isn't surprising considering who it is coming from. When I read your non-question post, they come off as condescending and insulting from the outset, as oppsed to constructive. That's not an attractive read to anyone.

Ask a question and offer suggestions. Its not hard, man.

[Macht]

Re: Why don't town/outpost guards protect citzens of the allied nations?

Yes there is.
It's not just adding stats to a Status Effect. You have to create an element which is new to FFXI. And believe it or not, it NPC vs NPC is NPC vs NPC whether it involves Town guards or just monsters.
You guys just don't get it. It would be way too hard for SE to add, nigh impossible thanks to their current content schedule.
PS. HAY, STOP TELLING SE WHAT TO DO, THIS ISN'T A QUESTION.

No, NPC vs NPC is not impossible for them to add. Like stated before the environment use to have that. Objects weather they are PCs or NPCs are still just objects existing on a world model as it's proven that your fellowship NPC can get aggro by dealing damage to a mob of the same race while another is close by. It's about the only way it can gain aggro, but it shows a target is a target regardless.

So there is no problem with an NPC targeting an NPC and attacking without player intervention. Though there is no proven evidence that you can trigger an NPC to attack if your CFH, in this case it's a change in the claim system which the NPCs likely do not recognize.

Otherwise the interaction between NPCs has no problem, it's just intentionally avoided.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Why don't town/outpost guards protect citzens of the allied nations?

First off, I didn't say it was impossible on it's own, only when paired with how much work SE needs to do each update.

Your Fellowship comment doesn't make much sense to me. Fellows works almost exactly like Automatons, it was practically the the prototype for it. Both of them are "pets" and work as so. These guards you suggest on having are not pets.

The closest thing to what you want would be a Besieged NPC.

Now, SE has to take this mold which is barely developed... it ignores players(and each other) for the most part and attacks at random... allow it to understand the "Call for Help" status(sometime ignored in every facet in the game previously), allow it to "link" with players, allow it to read the level of the player, and finally gain battle stats when previously was a nothing but a speaking role. Let's not forget SE has to go back to older zones and actually change the layout, something they do quite really, especially when it isn't just added a model on top of another(like the new Chocobo Racing offices).

That alone would take SE a lot of effort and would them a lot of time... time they do not have. Chocobo Racing seems easy in comparison and they are half year+ late on that.

Now, Automatons(and Fellows) are somewhat complex compared to pets like a charmed monster. You could say it was a leap(though it's half the leap as you guys are asking for with these aggroing NPCs). Do you know how much time it took for SE to slowly develop them? It was a process of evolution.

Now, not enough facts in the argument on why it isn't possible(on both sides)... I don't like arguing with a lack of facts, so I'll also slap on why it shouldn't be possible.

Why should NPCs attack monsters? What is the point? When has there ever been an issue. This seems more like roleplaying fix than anything else. Is your suspension of belief damaged by the guards? Well, hello? What do you do when they talk to the "player" about stuff like reentry timers and "Can not do that action"? Cover your eyes and go "lalalalala"?

Is it to help new players? Here is how new players should help themselves:

1. Don't attack fish they can't fry.
2. Fight by a zone in the beginning. (Where town guards are located).

You just want to see a guard pull out his sword and hit a monster. How utterly vain. Why not just ask SE to add blood effects to your sword after hitting a monster or a dance emote.

Watch this: I'm about to do something that would have the same or better effect than what you suggested:

1. Suggest players to zone when fighting near a zone in the first place.

2. Monsters don't approach Outposts. They act as safe havens and monsters simply lose aggro when players behind it's gates.

Wow, look at that, a well known concept and minor addition to the aggro system and I did what you did... with about hundred times less the work. Oh sure, people can't camp behind Outpost walls... I guess they will have to settle with standing 5 feet away from them.

Now with all the free time they have SE can work on making the game funner for players of all level ranges and activities.


And omgwtfbbqkitty, pot meet kettle. I don't know if you just struggle to ignore your own inconsistencies and hypocrisies or really have succeeded in convincing yourself that what you say makes sense.

[Macht]

Re: Why don't town/outpost guards protect citzens of the allied nations?

Point I was making is regardless if it's a PC, pet, or NPC the game identifies them as the same class object just different properties. Being the same class object there is no reason the game can't target and use them in any way the developers see fit.

You keep ignoring the fact that this interaction had once existed. It was removed though because the interaction left to many gaps for players to take advantage of. Also the NPCs interaction between eachother reduced the amount of exp mobs the players could get.

The introduction of the Fellowship doesn't have enough consistencies to state that it was starting blue print for Automatons. If that was the case then Summons, Wyverns, and even called pets should of been based on this and they are not. The only thing that Automatons could of taken from the Fellowship is the combat AI. Combat AI that of course has to be complex in order for it to be an effective member of a player party.

However in behavior between NPCs this complex combat behavior is not needed. All you need is 1 simple thing, a trigger to get the two NPCs to engage eachother. That is it the two NPCs own developed AIs for when fighting a player is mearly a property of it's class object and so it can use them regardless of it's target.

Now with guard NPCs to get them to trigger all you are doing is an aggro radius to trigger on NPCs not of the same family. The guards should naturally already be set to infinite health, there is hardly anything that has to be done for this to work. The only thing that is iffy about it was what I had stated not to long ago, I doubt that the game is programmed were the claim system can be used how omgwtfbbqkitty is suggesting. Which means the guards will just auto-aggro any mob near it that isn't the same family, creates an issue when you have the claim system to consider.