What do you think of my idea for how the magic system could be improved?

[Lmnop]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the magic system could be improved?

First off, different mages could have have differing amounts of skills. RDMs, for instance, would rationally be able to set more spells at a time than any other.

Second off, wouldn't it be nice to get some more traits into the system for jobs?

If you look at Black mage, what does it offer a party? Most people will say: Damage, light enfeebles, some light curing and maybe occasional buffing. That archetypal BLM is already assumed to be subbing WHM. If you invite a PLD, you expect it to tank. And you pretty much assume he's gonna provoke. My point? Look at BLU. It does... everything and can do everything without subjob. The set point system on BLU is what subjobs are for with the other 17 jobs in the game. This is sorta a flaw, as it makes every other job seem bland in comparison. The fact that they can not only equip a spell for every effect in the game, paired with the fact that they get a myriad of job traits available to them just makes them better designed than the rest of the jobs. Obviously, this is my opinion.

I'm not talking about total power level, obviously. Set points have limited that. But by giving them a limit, you've also given an avenue for "builds." In a day and age where all MNKs are "built" the same way.

All that in mind, I think the OP is a pretty good idea. However, I think the sub-skills shouldn't be "skills" in the strictest sense. More like conditional modifiers. For instance, your "Ice Skill" for BLMs wouldn't have to be a skill that they have to raise seperate. It could simply be a meter for your elemental potency that's only visible in your magic equip screen.

Next thing: It doesn't have to be a complicated process. Especially if most of your spells will remain the same most of the time - like BLUs currently are. I tell my friend that we'll want him to use Diamondhide and he chooses maybe 2-3 spells to sac and move around to fit it in. Then we wait the minute.

About the WHMs not having Flash -- how many spells would a Whm even need? Cure 2 (just for topping people off) Cure 3, Cure 5, Regen 3, Haste, 2 -na spells, 2 -ra spells, and Flash. That's 10 spells. Make it so they can always have ~12-15 spells equipped at a time and I don't see the problem. Having more cure spells equipped wouldn't exactly mean that they can cure -more-. They'd still only be using cure 3/5.

Lastly: aren't you tired of having 100 spells on your BLM and only 6 of them are any good?

I think it's a pretty good idea, though I'd like to see more modifications:

Your Enhancing magic is nothing but "I want Time Mage." What about Regen and Refresh? Or Stoneskin? And then there's Summoning Magic. Healing Skill needs a system like this more than any, as healing isn't exactly fun.

I know it'd be a severe reworking of the game, but I'd honestly like to see something like this for all skills. Imagine if DRGs got a bonus all the time for having Sword skilled up - even when using a Lance. Just need a skill so high to learn an ability that they could choose to equip. This is mainly since Mages get new stuff almost every level, while melee sometimes go 10 levels without anything new (or at least relevant to them - hello Resist Virus).

[Feba]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the magic system could be improved?

Lastly: aren't you tired of having 100 spells on your BLM and only 6 of them are any good?

Considering a lot of BLMs probably cast 6 spells before they even really start fighting, no, not really.

Set spells would make it much too much of a hassle to play a mage job in FFXI effectively. You think it's hard to find BRDs, RDMs, CORs, WHMs, BLMs, now, see how many people would play it if this actually happened.

I agree that FFXI does need more customizability for jobs, but ruining the game isn't a good way to do that.

Honestly, i'd rather have FFXI rip off every other MMO in existance and make it possible to 'enhance' armor and weapons than see this.

[Necropolis]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the magic system could be improved?

I don't really like the idea. As it is now I have access to all my spells, despite I may only use a few. But with your system a blm would pretty much waste space setting low tier spells to make certain ones stronger.

So if a BLM is MBing with Blizzard IV, then he won't be able to MB with say Thunder on a different skill chain. It would limit a lot of mages flexability. Say he can set up enough spells to MB both Blizzard and Thunder and throw a stun every now and then, well did he set any Cure spells? What about spells like stoneskin and blink, or aquaviel?

It seems to me that it would just break mages all together and force them to change the way people have been playing for so long.

If I'm limited to number of spells on whm then I would have to know exactly what we are fighting to know what to set. Right now these are my commonly macroed spells:

Cure3/4/5, Regen1/2/3, Haste, Protect/Shell, Erase, Paralyna, Blindna, Poisona, Stona, Viruna, Cursna, Silena, Dia, Slow, Paralyze, Flash, and relevant barspells depending on mob.

Then others spells that I use are of course, Reraise3, Raise3, 6 teles, Warp.

So by your system I would have to limit spells I have set, yet I use the vast majority of them all the time. I'd have to tele a party or warp back to homepoint to gather. Change spells, lets say I'll only need Silena, erase and paralyna, so I remove other statis removers. Going fine till we get a link from a mob that petrifies the tank. Now I have to set Stona back in and wait a minute, then the tank dies so I have to set Raise in and wait another minute.

Over all I don't think it would work well. You want to give options of specilization and versatility, but SE already did that. Whm is a specilized healer, Blm is a specialized DD, Rdm is the comprimise. Rdm has slightly weaker nukes, doesn't have the -enmity options whm has, like cure5.

I think over all SE set up mage classes just fine, a few tweaks might help, but anything this drastic would just break them. Specilization comes with merits. Want stronger nukes, merit potency, but you have to choose which one. Want wider varity of options? Merit AM2, but if you merit them all, you are sacrificing damage by not picking one or two to merit.

Same with RDM merits. They can choose more enfeebles (Slow 2, Paralyze 2, Dia 3, Bio 3), or can merit a few to increase thier potency. Then they can get Phalanx 2 to help tanks take less damage. Versitility and specilization is already designed in the game, we just are not forced to do it for 75 levels while we ponder what we'll do once we start meriting. By the time you hit 75 you should have an idea of what you want to merit and what kinda role you want to fill in a party and how those new abilitys/traits will help you do that.

[Toksyuryel]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the magic system could be improved?

I admit that my enhancing/enfeebling magic section was pretty much just a way of saying "give me a time mage" but honestly those are the only categories I could think of that actually potentially had enough spells to be worth having, and I felt like pointing out time mage in each one because those skills are precisely what would make time mage a real possibility and hopefully silence the closed minded arguments about how it can't ever happen.

I see your point about mages already being specialized with rdm somewhere in the middle.

What I see everyone doing here is simply assuming that the number of spell slots and set points available will be so low as to cripple you- that's not the point at all. SE's balancing team would have to come up with a proper number of spell slots and set points for each job that would allow them to still be effective without being overpowered. The key to understand is that someone who sets up their spells properly will be MORE powerful than they are in the current system. Have a little imagination before dismissing an idea outright on its face ^^

[Feba]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the magic system could be improved?

Mages are effective without being overpowered now...so what are you planning to take away?

[Toksyuryel]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the magic system could be improved?

I'm getting the feelings all you're doing is skimming these.

Under this system mages are more powerful, there has to be a limit to that which should be set just slightly higher than the current system. If you allow them to set too many spells then it is overpowered because of the bonuses and traits those spells provide you with. Allow them to set too few and you have, indeed, ruined the game.

[Feba]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the magic system could be improved?

The thing is, there's never a time when a mage wouldn't need a spell.

As a BLM, I might cast Rasp on one mob and choke on the next. I might not be expecting the PT to break up, but I have to D2 the WHM to keep him from dying.

There is no way to limit the amount of spells a mage can cast without gimping them.

[Sevv]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the magic system could be improved?

I'm getting the feelings all you're doing is skimming these.
Under this system mages are more powerful, there has to be a limit to that which should be set just slightly higher than the current system. If you allow them to set too many spells then it is overpowered because of the bonuses and traits those spells provide you with. Allow them to set too few and you have, indeed, ruined the game.

The current Mage set up is fine, Whm/Blm/Rdm never have problems for endgame all powerful job classes. Over all game play is very good, the only thing i ever see people complaining about is now that melee have snubbed blm in exp pts. After the manaburn and tp burn blm feel left out. Mage Classes dont need to be more powerful, say its because im not a mage. I level all jobs, but simple enough that the game is somewhat balanced and ill get flammed for this but:

You want Blm to get a power boost? Blm ethier need to get nerfed or all other damage classes need a huge boost in endgame.

[Lmnop]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the magic system could be improved?

it would be like BLU, <Srxjo> sure i'll Tele-Mea you, srxjo changes to whm, <Srxjo> one sec got to set spell to port >.<, <friend> >.< ok, sexjo teleports him and then warps back goes back to rdm and think lets go skill dagger, srxjo sits their for 30 mins trying to set his spell, srxjo is pissed off

Freudian slip...

[Feba]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the magic system could be improved?

Freudian slip...

That's when you say one thing, but you men another, right?

[Lmnop]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the magic system could be improved?

meh, I'm no psychologist. I was meaning it like... your subconcious thoughts came to the surface. In this case, inserting the word "sex" anywhere.

How about this:
what if you can have every single spell slotted. For every spell that you disable (unslot), you gain a point or some number of points. You then use these points to slot job traits. Thus, there's no loss from the current system. Just a boost.

But yes, once again this would make the disparate melee classes even less interesting, by comparison.

And yes, Melee still get shafted at end game, and Blms still get shafted at exp.

[DakAttack]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the magic system could be improved?

Create a balance between spells set and maximum MP. More spells, less MP; less spells, more MP.

I don't know if that's a good idea or bad idea, but it sounds interesting from where I'm sitting.

[BurningPanther]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the magic system could be improved?

The current magic system needs no more complications.

You want complicated? Try juggling gear to maximize magic accuracy and proc rates on enfeebles in endgame events. And with the highest rated Enfeebling, no less.

That's enough complexity to make you cry blood.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the magic system could be improved?

That's when you say one thing, but you men another, right?

O.o

[Srxjo]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the magic system could be improved?

i like my 90 odd spells on RDM as all spells on RDM has a time and a place