What do you think of my idea for how the merit system could be improved?

[Toksyuryel]

Just now I've been brainstorming a whole bunch of different ideas for how the game could be improved, and this is one of them (I will post each of these ideas in separate topics so they may be discussed individually; it is up to the administrators whether or not they should be lumped together as one question when the time comes, if in fact any of them get asked.):

Every x number of merit upgrades (to be determined by whoever handles balancing at SE) causes a level 75+ character to "level up."
This level up only occurs once the upgrade is made, NOT when the points are simply acquired.
This level up does not increase any stats nor does it increase any skill caps, nor does it increase the maximum EXP buffer.
This level up DOES allow for higher-level equipment to be used (such equipment will of course need to be implemented along with this system).
This new level is used in the threat calculation of mob vs. PC in order to determine EXP gained from killing that mob.
If a player's EXP on a 75+ job drops below 0, that job is immediate returned to level 74 regardless of what level it was previously.
Upon leveling up past 74 again their full merited level is immediately restored.
Job-specific upgrades only affect the level of that particular job, all other upgrades affect all jobs at 75+.
This level can be used in determining access to level-restricted quests, which would of course have to be implemented (possible continuation of the limit break quests for increasing the maximum merit limit? as well as other level-dependent quests that having nothing to do with limit breaks).
The point of this system is to simultaneously address the issue of merit TP burn parties while also paving the way for truly epic high level content, but without a true level cap increase.

Thoughts?

[Feba]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the merit system could be improved?

The merit system could use improvements, but 75 as a solid cap is where FFXI belongs, partly because of EXP issues, and partly because the devs have somewhat painted themselves into a corner with equipment, quest, hnm, etc.

It would simply require too many changes to raise the level cap at this point, in any way.

It would be more effective, in my opinion, to 1- make it possible to gain merit points on non-75 jobs, and 2- Raise or even remove the Combo caps on merits, although slowly. Say, First HP and MP, then the next week stats, then skills, then finally abilities, etc.

[Toksyuryel]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the merit system could be improved?

Well as I said, this is not a true level cap increase. The original purpose of this was to simply change the mob vs. PC threat calculation in order to force parties to find stronger mobs as they gain more merits instead of just TP burning the same weak mobs over and over and over, gradually getting better and better at doing it without any change in value of the mobs they are fighting. A consequence of this system however is also a buff to the game in general by creating the possibility for new restrictions on better equipment as well as new high-level quests.

As I said in the OP, this level increase would NOT increase skill caps, would NOT increase stats in any way, and would NOT increase the EXP buffer any higher than 44,000. The only things this would do are reducing the EXP gained from mobs, allowing for equipment levels to be rated higher than 75, and allowing quest level requirements to be rated higher than 75. Oh and I just thought of something else, there could be new spells too that would be rated higher than 75.

Ultimately it's a game balance solution that doesn't make characters any more powerful than they already are, but rather keeps that power from being abused in TP burns like it is right now.

[Wise Donkey]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the merit system could be improved?

I have yet to experience the Merit Point system, but I think this sounds like a good idea. :)

[Feba]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the merit system could be improved?

One of the things about merit parties is that they're common BECAUSE EVERYONE IS THE SAME LEVEL. If you have some people at 75, some at 76, a few at 83, it will create huge logistics problems... not to mention, do you really wanna have to get enough merits to get to 99 to join an HNMLS?

All the LS you see saying "75." now will be saying "99." then.

[Sevv]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the merit system could be improved?

um you do realise that with this job you would probably have to solo your last few merits becuase, there are its in the game but add now 20+ levels to your job.
gear wise maybe a good idea, but exp wise it seems like you just hit lvl 70 and your mad at the tp burn pts because they kill quicker. If they going to change the merit system give cor. blu, pup group 2. And possibly add group 3.

[Kirsteena]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the merit system could be improved?

Christ, I need 200+ merits as it is (that is over 2 mill xp points), I don't want to have to muck about with levels as well.

Not to mention the possibility of access to /rdm. That would break that game.

[Sevv]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the merit system could be improved?

if this went thru...

R.I.P. Red Mage

lvl 1 ~ 82

here lies the Pimp hat wearing red mage, who was taken away from the merit scene at level 82, stabbed in the back by Whm/Rdm with Convert and Refresh.

/movie tear

[Lmnop]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the merit system could be improved?

but exp wise it seems like you just hit lvl 70 and your mad at the tp burn pts because they kill quicker.

No one said that. That sort of assumption that a have-not is bitching will not make many friends.

Also, he never said Sub job level would increase. He never even implied it. He basically said that it'd make it harder for you to gain exp as you get ridiculous amounts of exp and possibly use it as an avenue to introduce new gear.

Also, it doesn't have to be 99 levels - it could be like 5.

All that defense, but I don't think I'd really like it. I agree with Feba - the devs pigeonholed themselves into a 75 cap.

Honestly, I just want "merit sets." Much like changing sub job, imagine you build up one set of merits -- +enmity, +evasion/katana skill. Then you decide to level WHM. So instead of dumping merits, and instead of making merits 100% refundable (every merit you put in, you can pull out and put elsewhere - that'd be too nice of S-E), you'd just assign that as "merit set #1." Then you could change to merit set #2 and go earn merits anew. In this set, you'd have no +crit merits or +evasion like you did before - you effectively turned your merits off. This way, you could build up your magic potency and elemental magic skill+.

And I'm getting tired of so many level 75 parties merit'ing on my level 70 stuff... every camp with a mob that checks T to 75 is flooded, while the rest of Vana'diel is barren. "Merit Capping" would fix that. >.>

[Nazo]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the merit system could be improved?

The problem with this is that merits don't necessarily make you directly more effective in the same way that the increased stats and skills from a regular level up do. What if a Galka mnk (for example) was meriting mp to help level his whm? He'd be a significant disadvantage when he triggered your level-up because he now has to fight harder mobs but his combat skills or stats aren't any better.

[Sevv]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the merit system could be improved?

Also, he never said Sub job level would increase. He never even implied it. He basically said that it'd make it harder for you to gain exp as you get ridiculous amounts of exp and possibly use it as an avenue to introduce new gear.

seeing that subjobs are effectivly 1/2 of main job lvl it should increase, and about the comment of people getting mad at tp burns every gets mad at them killing quicker, its a fact of the game. I get mad at them when im leveling up their as well as anyone here has/does/will. Nyzule island has seemed to change the amount of burns who used the mire tho.

[Toksyuryel]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the merit system could be improved?

I knew I left something out: this pseudo-levelup would NOT allow the subjob to be leveled any higher than 37.

I seriously doubt it could get anywhere near level 99, even if they did 1 upgrade = 1 level (which is just STUPID) it wouldn't get you to 99. The idea was that SE's balancing team would choose a number of upgrades so that level ups *do* coincide with an equivolent increase in general ability.

Nazo: each of those mp merits adds a whole TEN mp, say for the sake of argument that 5 upgrades was a level, would you not agree that +50 mp is AT LEAST equivolent to 1 level? Given the way mp normally goes up I'd have to say it's closer to 2, but the idea isn't to be a dick about it, simply to keep the estimated strength calculation accurate.

Feba, what about EXP parties from levels 15-73ish? I see tons of those even though the level spread is so huge. I fail to see how this would change anything in that regard.

[Sevv]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the merit system could be improved?

I knew I left something out: this pseudo-levelup would NOT allow the subjob to be leveled any higher than 37.
I seriously doubt it could get anywhere near level 99, even if they did 1 upgrade = 1 level (which is just STUPID) it wouldn't get you to 99. The idea was that SE's balancing team would choose a number of upgrades so that level ups *do* coincide with an equivolent increase in general ability.
Nazo: each of those mp merits adds a whole TEN mp, say for the sake of argument that 5 upgrades was a level, would you not agree that +50 mp is AT LEAST equivolent to 1 level? Given the way mp normally goes up I'd have to say it's closer to 2, but the idea isn't to be a dick about it, simply to keep the estimated strength calculation accurate.
Feba, what about EXP parties from levels 15-73ish? I see tons of those even though the level spread is so huge. I fail to see how this would change anything in that regard.

if your not raising the sub job with the new lvl id stop meriting if im fighting harder enemies that a) dont exist ig atm b) my lvl is going up w/o raise of sub job to allow me to keep good damage input. I'm not seeing a reason to really go out and make the game harder. unless the harder mobs i will be fighting with a gimp sub give alot more exp ill just merit on say war and never merit it so i can keep tp burning w/o hassel.

[Toksyuryel]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the merit system could be improved?

Except they are enemies you can kill NOW, just not with a TP burn. Yes they DO exist, nobody fights them right now because there's no point, this system would make it worthwhile. And if you can fight them at 75 without your subjob going up you can sure as hell fight them if that number was a tiny bit higher.

[Feba]

Re: What do you think of my idea for how the merit system could be improved?

Yeah Tok, you see plenty, but have you tried actually leveling that?

Ignoring the fact that 75 players level quicker anyway (which would leave a situation where players are leveling about 75 faster than players are getting to lv75 to form parties, similar to draining a bottle, where what is more preferable is leaving a faucet on), two, three, four or more hour waits aren't uncommon at many levels, especially during off peak times. Last thing we need to do is do that to merit parties too.