Will Beastmaster ever be given a true pet companion?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Will Beastmaster ever be given a true pet companion?

In my opinion, Killer Traits are too weak and if improved, this can fill this void. Something like +5~10% Attack Bonus and +5% Critical Hit. Have Circle effect give this same bonus to party members and give the user twice the bonus than normal. Have gear give something like +2% attack and +1% Crit for each piece. Kind of funny how ever job with a Killer ability is deemed lower-tier in merit? DRK, PLD, DRG, BST, and SAM.

Again, most mobs commonly EXPed on are Chimera, Demon and Beastmen type-mobs. This is at merit levels. After Colibri, Crawlers, Flys and the odd treeant, our Killer effects mean jack to EXP mobs in ToA. We need abilities/traits to offset that so we're not at a loss on other mobs.

SAM and DRK are pretty common in merit, too. People who rate these jobs in damage in merit are beyond retarded. You're getting 10k an hour either way

I disagree quite strongly and I think there are others who wound too. I'm sure there was others who thought DRG's 2hr was fine, but in truth it wasn't. 2hrs needs to be monumental. The most use the 2hr gets is people playing with the Kraken at Qufim.

I guess that time the ambusher antlion almost got me was a bad time to use it, because I had no one to show it off to :P Seriously, the two hour is fine. When used properly with Reward, its beneficial.

[Spiritbear]

Re: Will Beastmaster ever be given a true pet companion?

You could even make it so that we could quest the jug pets themselves. So it would slowly make it so the bst didn't need to buy the jug but could call the pet without it. Make it a long quest or difficult quest so that jugs aren't completely worthless, but instead would be used by the bst that opted not to quest their pets.

That would solve the issue with the HQ jugs cost. And give Bst something that would be more like a pet then a disposable Meat Shield. I enjoy doing the quest and missions in game and would take a little more pride in my pets for having quested them then just buying them in the ah.

[Karinya]

Re: Will Beastmaster ever be given a true pet companion?

We have the same rating in Axe as WAR. We just lack a worthwhile DD job trait or ability that are usually native to other DDs, we're forced to draw on from a subjob, limiting our PT subjob choices quite dramatically. /WAR gives us much of what we need, /NIN gives us nothing but Dual Wield, which isn't enough.

That still leaves your choices less limited than PLD or NIN; not every job is going to have as many viable subjob choices as WAR. Anyway, you can't expect BST to do as much damage with an axe as WAR for the same reason you can't expect PUP to do as much damage with their fists as MNK: the pet. BST + pet damage is already equal to or even above the damage of other DDs, and splitting the damage between you and your pet also splits the hate between you and your pet, so you don't get smacked around like a DRK even though you're doing just as much total damage.

Jug familars are very weak - even some of the HQed ones - and aren't always uncapped. All other pet jobs can call pets that are always equal in level to them, this is unbalanced and needs to be addressed either in uncapping the jugs or something like what I've suggested.

The total strength of the player + pet can't be too great, so if you strengthen the pet you have to weaken the master. Do you want to have only B weapon skills like PUP, or not be able to use any worthwhile weapons at all like SMN? Correct me if I'm wrong but the current "weak" jug pets are already as strong as if not stronger than a wyvern (a wyvern is nominally equal level to its master, but in actual strength, it is nowhere near a DC mob) and don't cost you constant MP to keep out like avatars.

I'm all for greater variety of jugs, relaxing or eliminating jug level caps and increased jug durations (and of course fixing the claim bugs), but I don't see any good evidence that the pets themselves are too weak, considering the strength of their masters.


P.S. Quiverable jugs are unnecessary if the duration is increased to something reasonable - I've advocated 30 min for NQ, 1 hr for HQ, the same as stackable food. Nobody demands quiverable food because 1 stack already lasts 6 hours. Quiverable pet food might be handy though. Or just change pet foods to stack to 99 - it'd be simpler to implement and actually more convenient.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Will Beastmaster ever be given a true pet companion?

I think any job ability or spell "material" needs to be "quiver"-able. Space in this game is brutal enough.

[Feba]

Re: Will Beastmaster ever be given a true pet companion?

Legal Fish, that's so damn true...honestly SE should let us bundle most things that stack. trade x12 <food item> to <npc> for a Picnic Basket, use one later and get 12 food items back? Kinda for another thread entirely, though.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Will Beastmaster ever be given a true pet companion?

Screw Picnic Baskets, "Rations".

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Will Beastmaster ever be given a true pet companion?

That still leaves your choices less limited than PLD or NIN; not every job is going to have as many viable subjob choices as WAR. Anyway, you can't expect BST to do as much damage with an axe as WAR for the same reason you can't expect PUP to do as much damage with their fists as MNK: the pet. BST + pet damage is already equal to or even above the damage of other DDs, and splitting the damage between you and your pet also splits the hate between you and your pet, so you don't get smacked around like a DRK even though you're doing just as much total damage.

What PLD and NIN have to do with this, I don't know. They're tanks.

Every other melee job in the game has a melee trait and melee job ability. BST is a melee class and has nothing in the way of a damage ability, just Killer Effect traits. It doesn't cut it, especially when you consider what people prefer to fight these days. We need a damage ability so we can have more subjob options.

DRG, WAR, SAM and DRK all have a great amount of job traits/abilites that allow them to pull from a wide range of subjobs. Three of those classes are jobs we share armor types with. Its pretty obvious we were intended to be DDs and one that can take the big hits, yet we have no real DD trait and JAs.

The total strength of the player + pet can't be too great, so if you strengthen the pet you have to weaken the master. Do you want to have only B weapon skills like PUP, or not be able to use any worthwhile weapons at all like SMN? Correct me if I'm wrong but the current "weak" jug pets are already as strong as if not stronger than a wyvern (a wyvern is nominally equal level to its master, but in actual strength, it is nowhere near a DC mob) and don't cost you constant MP to keep out like avatars.

CourrierCarrie holds out longer than SabreSivarde - tell me there isn't something wrong with that. Saber is a higher level HQ jug and other tigers don't go down that easily. I'm not expecting an equal to mobs from jugs, but I'm not expecting a featherweight, either. Plenty of other jugs and HQ jugs that have the same problem. Its not even worth using Reward on some of the jug pets, they just get beaten down too quickly.

Other thing that kills BST (and every pet class) is chat filters, they create a false perception of the jobs because people don't see the contribution of pet damage. SE needs to find a way around that, perhaps filtering pet damage out naturally and making it appear on-screen, not in the chat log. It really doesn't matter how strong we say these jobs are, people won't accept it because they have been given the option to ignore it.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Will Beastmaster ever be given a true pet companion?

Other thing that kills BST (and every pet class) is chat filters, they create a false perception of the jobs because people don't see the contribution of pet damage. SE needs to find a way around that, perhaps filtering pet damage out naturally and making it appear on-screen, not in the chat log. It really doesn't matter how strong we say these jobs are, people won't accept it because they have been given the option to ignore it.

The vast majority of people do not use parsers.

Of those who do, at least some of them (like me!), would be curious about pet damage. After all, those who run parsers are curious people. ^_-

Beastmaster's unpopularity in party doesn't stem so much from the perception of low damage potential as from lack of familiarity by the majority with them--most parties invite what they know would work, and BST isn't one of those known ones. There just aren't that many BST players, and it's not a well understood job.

You can add an Attack Bonus and Accuracy bonus to the BST job, and some crazy extra attack job abilities, and the players would still get few invites.

Just look at Dragoon, if you have any doubt.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Will Beastmaster ever be given a true pet companion?

The vast majority of people do not use parsers.

Of those who do, at least some of them (like me!), would be curious about pet damage. After all, those who run parsers are curious people. ^_-

Yes, you're right, most people do not run parsers, but those that do tend to have something to "prove" and then drag it onto a forum, post it and that's where it all begins. The people who don't run those parsers can take it at face value, but may not ask how the parser was done.

Then let the fanboys run wild and the misinformation begin. Most non-pet class players I know filter out pet damage. That is, unless they want to see the damage of every pet in the vicinity. People forget that the filter is on and only look at the player's damage and not the full damage.

Beastmaster's unpopularity in party doesn't stem so much from the perception of low damage potential as from lack of familiarity by the majority with them--most parties invite what they know would work, and BST isn't one of those known ones. There just aren't that many BST players, and it's not a well understood job.

Ignorance is not a good excuse for anything, MMORPGs require a large time investment, so not taking the time to learn about jobs is failure on the part of players that is not acceptable.

That said, BST has an axe, calls monsters to hurt things, can charm potential links to save the PT from danger. I don't see what's hard to understand about what that means.

You can add an Attack Bonus and Accuracy bonus to the BST job, and some crazy extra attack job abilities, and the players would still get few invites.

Just look at Dragoon, if you have any doubt.

Lots more 75 DRGs than there used to be, what with that pesky BLM that used to take up a slot in PTs and all.

[Vyuru]

Re: Will Beastmaster ever be given a true pet companion?

CourrierCarrie holds out longer than SabreSivarde - tell me there isn't something wrong with that. Saber is a higher level HQ jug and other tigers don't go down that easily.

That though is mainly the bane of all pet users, the dreaded AoE attack. Lucky for you though, you may actually be in a zone where you can charm something nearby to use as a pet instead of a jug pet if you so choose.

I have to agree with Karinya here, I've seen some really good damage from bsts as it stands already. Toss a bst/nin out there in good DD gear, and give him the tiger jug pet, and they will easily rival the OMGWTFPWND war/nins out there, which I think is saying alot about their potential to deal damage.

[Karinya]

Re: Will Beastmaster ever be given a true pet companion?

What PLD and NIN have to do with this, I don't know. They're tanks.

And they have exactly one viable subjob choice in the vast majority of situations. You were complaining about having "only" two (for party DD; obviously there are several more that are good for other situations).

Every other melee job in the game has a melee trait and melee job ability. BST is a melee class and has nothing in the way of a damage ability, just Killer Effect traits. It doesn't cut it, especially when you consider what people prefer to fight these days. We need a damage ability so we can have more subjob options.

A native ability won't give you more subjob options. Being able to take good advantage of the abilities provided by several different subjobs, or being able to fill several different party roles, is what gives you more subjob options.

A native ability will just make you better with the option you do have.

If BST got some improved melee trait - let's say +crit, since nobody has that yet - it wouldn't change the relative merits of /WAR and /NIN in the slightest. /WAR would continue doing more damage and /NIN would continue taking less damage from AOE or monsters turning on you after an early WS.

In any case, the main thing that defines a major DD is A rank skill with a major DD weapon. Traits and abilities are fun to play with, but only THF truly relies on them; for everyone else the majority of damage in most fights is just swinging (or shooting) away.

CourrierCarrie holds out longer than SabreSivarde - tell me there isn't something wrong with that.

There isn't something wrong with that. Surely you've been playing this game long enough to know that the difference between a crab and a tiger is more than just a matter of graphics. If CC did more *damage* - or even equal damage - that would be crazy. If CC *didn't* hold out longer against physical attacks (at the same level) that would be equally crazy.

Saber is a higher level HQ jug and other tigers don't go down that easily. I'm not expecting an equal to mobs from jugs, but I'm not expecting a featherweight, either. Plenty of other jugs and HQ jugs that have the same problem. Its not even worth using Reward on some of the jug pets, they just get beaten down too quickly.

Most jugs are clearly not intended to tank. Especially not ones of aggressive mob types like tigers. If you *do* want a tank, it's hard to beat a crab - that's hardly surprising. But if you're in a party that already *has* a tank, then a higher damage pet would be more useful - if you weren't prevented from using it by level caps or lack of ingredients to make the jug. I want to see CC become less ubiquitous, but I don't want to destroy her usefulness altogether and tanking is one thing that a crab is well suited to.

Other thing that kills BST (and every pet class) is chat filters, they create a false perception of the jobs because people don't see the contribution of pet damage. SE needs to find a way around that, perhaps filtering pet damage out naturally and making it appear on-screen, not in the chat log. It really doesn't matter how strong we say these jobs are, people won't accept it because they have been given the option to ignore it.

SE can't make players stop being stupid. If they don't look at the damage, they won't see the damage; it's pointless to blame SE for that.

Anyone who posts a parse of BST damage and doesn't include the pet will be laughed off the thread on any board that isn't *totally* dominated by idiots. Not including the pet in a damage comparison involving a pet job is so obviously stupid and/or dishonest that it would completely destroy the credibility of whoever did it (at least on that topic, if not in general).


P.S. The difficulty of finding a pet to charm, the risk of mischarms and decharms, and the time taken to find it again after Leave if you use it, are a *necessary* counterweight to the sheer power of a DC-EM charmed mob. You can't have a superstrong pet all the time while still being even a fairly good personal DD. You can have a weak pet instantly without risk or a strong pet that takes a lot of maintenance and risk. That's balance.