Can "Skillchain + Magic Burst" style become appealing in exp party?

[Celeal]

Re: Can "Skillchain + Magic Burst" style become appealing in exp party?

I am not sure for other players, maybe a lot of you have vast knowledge with SC + MB. To me, trying to form a Party that have a decent Skillchain and decent Magical Burst is not trival.

From teen ~ mid level ranges, the choice of WS are limited. We don't have WS like Howling Fist or Raging Rush until level 60s. Not every SC partner can form a good skillchain. If the party is not carefully put togather for SC + MB, there can be issue with a DD may have to open/close the SC with a weak WS in order to make SC possible, or maybe the MB does not match with the mob's weakness, etc.

Back in the traditional party setup days, I had a lot of trouble getting party invite as MNK because MNK cannot make Distortion until level 60.

If the overall damage from SC + MB is less than or equal to DDs solo their best damaging WS + mage solo highest damage nuke, I consider that particular SC + MB as a failure.

Another issue is timing too. Some DD get their most out of their WS by synchronizing with their /ja or /ma timer, like SATA, Soul Eater, Absorb spells, etc. However, their are DD that focus on using a lot of WS overtime (very fast TP gain). IMHO, sometimes both styles do not mix very for Skillchain.

To build a party that center around SC + MB, the party has to know the SC chart, know the DD's weapon/ability and know what DD jobs to invite, know the mobs' weakness, etc. If the party leader ask one of the DD be a puller, then it is another restriction for which DD to invite.

If a DD leaves the party, the replacement may not fit well to the party's SC + MB.

Personally I love SC + MB (most of the parties I initially formed usually have decent SC + MB). TBH, with most pickup parties that I joined, not many party leader put a lot of thought for SC + MB. (That I can understand, there is a lot of headache trying to find a refresher and tank already)

In the past before sushi is introduced to the game, I think SC + MB was a major tool to ensure exp. chain (the damage from good SC + MB can compensate the lack of sushi back in the old days). In nowadays with sushi and all those acc+ gear selection available, we have fast TP gain + WS spam vs pros/cons of forming SC + MB.

Just my 2 gil~

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Can "Skillchain + Magic Burst" style become appealing in exp party?

I am not sure for other players, maybe a lot of you have vast knowledge with SC + MB. To me, trying to form a Party that have a decent Skillchain and decent Magical Burst is not trival.

It's not trivial. I see a lot of people saying that this game has been dumbed down, and has become too easy -- specifically the exp'ing in TP burns. To me, playing in parties has always been easy. It doesn't take any less work and skill now than it did a couple of years ago.

What has become easier is the process of getting a party together. A TP burn party doesn't succeed or fail just on what jobs are thrown together. That's just not the case for SC based parties. If one DD leaves, and you can't find someone with the exact same job and weapon (replacing a Scythe DRK with GSword DRK might still throw your SC out the window), your party might end up simply disbanding as a result.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Can "Skillchain + Magic Burst" style become appealing in exp party?

S-E has (finally) answered this question... Just not to FFXIonline. Instead, it's over here.

In higher levels, a balanced party setup that skillchains and magic bursts struggles to gain experience points in comparison to a heavy melee party, which can kill enemies much faster and quicker. An experience point bonus to successful Skillchains could help a more balanced setup of players earn levels and merits. Do you have plans to make skillchain/magic burst parties more attractive?

::lots of commotion between them:: This is very long answer, but the gist of it is, yes we realize that right now some people cannot get parties right now because it is easier for melee parties to kill monsters, and so we are thinking about doing some adjustments. There will be an overhaul when the new jobs come out because we want to make them balanced with the others. We will also balance the existing jobs to work with those. When that balance occurs, there will be some adjustments made, and hopefully that will make some of the other jobs more attractive and alleviate some of the melee parties. By doing these types of adjustments, we will have to make some of the monsters stronger.

Only one thing is certain, I guess: "By doing these types of adjustments, we will have to make some of the monsters stronger."

* * *

Legal Fish & "anti-nerf" squad:

If you're reading this, I'll just put in my two cents first--I'm sure S-E has carefully considered the situation and decided tougher monsters is a good idea, and should a part of of overall solution to restore the balance.

While S-E is not always right, it's probably not a bad idea to wait and see how things turn out before bashing the company. For the record, I'm not cheering this impending "nerf"--just sighing in relief that the problem is recognized, and S-E is working on the solutions.

* * *

p.s. Yeah, yeah; necro bump, bad Itaz, etc.
p.p.s. I'm a little bitter they stole my question and got answer back before we did. So, sue me. <_<; Who the heck was supposed to give S-E our questions and get answers back, anyway?

[Legal Fish]

Re: Can &quot;Skillchain + Magic Burst&quot; style become appealing in exp party?

It depends on how they make them stronger.

If they make them holder to hold with a bunch of /NIN, then some type of tanking might become popular(though it makes you wonder if PLD could tank anything that strong).

If they increase the HP/Def/so on of the monsters, it makes very little difference. The only effect would be TP burns being a bit slower.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Can &quot;Skillchain + Magic Burst&quot; style become appealing in exp party?

I guess I better squeeze in as much TP burn meritting as possible before the next expansion gets released :P

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Can &quot;Skillchain + Magic Burst&quot; style become appealing in exp party?

HP/Def really aren't the only factors keeping SC/MB PTs from taking place, its that in combination with very low respawn timers that have made TP/Speedkill PTs so prevalant. Mobs are so weak and respawn so quickly that you can chain endlessly.

You could pull off a reasonably high chain pre-ToA, but it never really got beyond the teens because mobs wouldn't respawn fast enough.

FFXI/RoZ respawn timers tended to be long, CoP respawns were varied in length, ToA's seem to be a dedicated 5 min repop. If they really want to curb TP Burn/Speedkill, they also have to alter the respawn.

If SE plays this right - and with remaking 30 zones, I don't see how they can't - this expansion should go a long way toward finally thining out high level EXP camps. Problem with ToA is that it has just as few viable high level camps pre-ToA, but they're all hubbed off Whitegate so no one treks out to the old camps at all.

Since players are spoiled on easy transport now, this hub-like design is going to need to continue to a degree or players won't budge from the ToA EXP camps. Hopefully, they'll also add a Sanction-like buff, since players are spoiled on that, too.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Can &quot;Skillchain + Magic Burst&quot; style become appealing in exp party?

From reading this, I'm glad we have a BLM in our LS who wants to merit with our static. We always SC + MB in our merit parties, and I usually get to join in the fun as well. :)

BLM MB for 1300+ and RDM MB for 600-700+ = PWN. Plain and simple.

[Malacite]

Re: Can &quot;Skillchain + Magic Burst&quot; style become appealing in exp party?

I'm betting the "tougher enemies" thing is going to relate to the mobs in the past. The beastmen were a much fiercer enemy in the days of the war, and as such I'm hoping they'll require a traditional PT and give the EXP to match.

It's quickly becoming a dead horse, but the answer lies in providing more options for players and not in nerfing existing ones.

[Vyuru]

Re: Can &quot;Skillchain + Magic Burst&quot; style become appealing in exp party?

If they make them holder to hold with a bunch of /NIN, then some type of tanking might become popular(though it makes you wonder if PLD could tank anything that strong).

All they need to do is make the mob attack fast to get rid of shadows, much like Chigoe, or spam mildly damaging AoEs, like Puks.

Both mobs are fairly weak, just annoying as all heck and rather ninja tanking unfriendly since most ninjas rely on DD gear + Berserk + Sushi to keep hate on themselves.

Most of this is pure speculation, but:

Since we're talking about monsters from the past, and high level ones, I'd be guessing that not only do all these mobs have access to their job's two hours, but I'm suspicious that they will have access to merit abilities. A monk's Formless Strikes or whatever it's called from a beastman could be quite potent and completely ignore a ninja's shadows.

Another thing could be more beastman parties, the trend started in CoP, I could easily see it being continued in the Crystal Wars, and it would not surprise me if they also did something like allowing mob's to call for help, or go for help. Don't Qiqirn do that when you attack them? Run to the next nearest Qiqirn?

[Heavyblade504]

Re: Can &quot;Skillchain + Magic Burst&quot; style become appealing in exp party?

These are quiet interesting ideas and theories. I particularly like the idea about making SCs stronger and the Conserve MP buff while MBing. Those I feel would really help the traditional party come to life a bit. However most of the time now while in parties players want to be able to kill mobs with little to no down time because of MP restraints. (hence a reason why Nin is so popular) I've done many tp burns and have had the occasional normal party set up. (this happening on troll exp pts) From taking into the amount of exp hauled in per hour burns easily take the cake.
In addition to what bonuses to SC dmg and MB dmg/ mp saving what SC/MB do is also add a fixed % of experiance boost earned by the party for performing X number of X level SCs on a mob. Say your fighting a troll, you make a level 1 SC for say 1% exp boost, than continue the SC to make a level 2 SC say for 2% exp boost and than SC again with to finish off with a level 3 SC for 3% exp boost. Also if one took those %s, added them up and then times it by 2 minus 4 for X amount of extra exp gained on that mob. The reasoning for the minus 2 is to make it so that parties that can make a whole ton of level 3 chains won't end up getting huge amounts of exp. To top it off if the SC isn't MBed then you'd only receive 1/2 of the exp bonus you'd get if MBed for the full added amount of exp.
Now one problem I can see with this idea is that if this was added then people would only invite certain particular jobs. (say like having 3 sams constantly SCing with each other for some insane amount of exp % bonuses, or the exclusion of Mnk for its lack of being able to SC with a few popular Wses or any other jobs for that fact.)
One pro I'd say is that a party can get a huge strong mob(like a Marid which has decent defence and plenty of HP) and rather than focus on making tons of huge damage they do lower amounts as to accumulate more bonus exp when its finally killed. (although a current fun through rarely seen party around lvl 65-70 is kill chigoes to chain and use Marid to finish chain for usually 8-10 per Marid.) So say a burn pt kills about 3-5 VT mobs for about 400-600 exp total. While the SC/MB pt fights and kills 1-2 IT mobs mostly SCing and MBing for extra exp to make I'd say roughly equal to the burn pt, or possibly more if the members are good enough.

One key note is people like lots of exp so find a way for them to work towards other means of good exp and they'll find ways to make it just as good as main steam ways or even make it better.

Now about mobs with better A.I. or behavior. If A.I. did something that would more than often put the party in jeapordy of wiping or dying often people would avoid them almost completely. (reason things like imp aren't seen this way is because how weak they are and how easily they can be killed) A good example is Soulflayers they see/detect they kill, they have a range of very deadly kills and spells, because of their nature to usually go nuts with AOE spells pts tend to avoid them. (aside from how strong they are) If mobs were too difficult to defeat without wasting time players would rule them out as exp mobs. (like the Wrievrs[or however you spell em] at the greater bird camp. those are only used as exp mob when there aren't any birds to kill) So rather than make the mob more difficult just make more mobs that appeal to different pt styles. (birds and imps are mostly favored as burn victims while traditional focused around crabs and at times beastmen.) So in this new expansion there will be more likely to have mobs that appeal more towards traditional parties than the burn parties of ToAU.

As always nerfing isn't best, it only makes people whine over 80% of the time. (like the original 2-hander update)

Note: if any of the ideas I mentioned were thought up before my bad. I'm pretty sure people have been thinking about getting exp bonuses from rengekis.(like in .hack)