What if you could take it all back...

[BurningPanther]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

True, but I didn't want to make my post to lengthy because people skip over walls of text, and I certainly do think Kazhaam Keys and Sub Job item farming were horrible activities. I'm not saying it's bad for them to break up the flow of leveling with other stuff - but they needed to come up with better things to break the flow up with. Eco Warrior quests sucked, low level missions sucked...there was nothing worthwhile in the low levels. New players were basically told "Just wait 'til you get to 75, all the awesome shit you'll see!" while having to slowly work through those pathetic and tedious fetch quests to progress.

Then there was CoP, which was the one good thing they could've interspersed with leveling, but instead of removing all the bullshit between battlefields they just neutered it so it becomes another Sub Job Quest - get a 95 or two to steamroll it for you.

And while Leaping Boots and other NM items may be a social thing, I'm sorry if I don't look up to someone for his ability to camp the same spot for weeks. I'm not against status symbols but they have to mean something. NM camping is yet another horrible activity that could've been executed much better. In fact, NM camping is completely anti-social. EDIT: Example: I totally respected having a Rajas Ring. THAT was one hell of a status symbol.

I think much of the pointless torture behind lower levels is the way spells and abilities are dispersed. Low level missions could have been fun, Eco Warrior could have been fun, as well as Expeditionary force and several other low-level large-scale events. The problem lay in that all the tools meant to handle events, the really fun stuff everyone looks to past 40+ is, well... 40+. Spells, abilities, armor... lower levels are equipped, in both armor and powers, to do nothing more than Weapon Skill or cast badly. One needs a babysitter just to survive--it's no wonder low-level events are disregarded.

If we saw more generous dispersal of traits, abilities, and armor with competitive stats as early as level 5, the lower level game would have been a time to be enjoyed rather than a stepping stone to be hurried past.

I can see the thrill and camaraderie fostered in environments where absolutely everything can wipe your party, but that thrill only remains when you have access to the tool for a fighting chance.

[Yygdrasil]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

The grind is something you come to expect with an MMO.... or any RPG for that matter. I would never buy or play an MMO in which I knew I could get to the max level and obtain most of the best gear for my job within a few weeks. That being said... there are those people who challenged themselves to level jobs to 75 in a matter of 2-3 weeks and did it... but those people don't know what daylight looks like... or what sleep feels like.

---------- Post added at 02:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:38 PM ----------

Also: I'm totally calm.

[Armando]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

Valid point. Perhaps we should also give everyone access to every job/weaponskill/piece of equipment while we're at it. Would this not be a means to the same end?

Well, yes and no. There's gotta be something you play for, so you can't just give the player everything. What I'm saying is that how you work for things should be meaningful to a certain extent. The mindless autoattack skill up grind has nothing to do with the rest of the game, doesn't improve your skills as a player and doesn't require you to exercise your skills to do it. It's just pointless and mindless. Getting stuff through Nyzul and Assaults, that's way more entertaining and difficult.

The grind is something you come to expect with an MMO.... or any RPG for that matter.

MMOs, yes...offline RPGs, no. Any RPG that forces you to grind constantly is a bad game in my book.

I would never buy or play an MMO in which I knew I could get to the max level and obtain most of the best gear for my job within a few weeks.

Like I said, there has to be something you play for, but it doesn't really matter what it is. A hypothetical game could allow you to get "max level" in a week but require months to max out your abilities (e.g. merits) or get all the good gear. A different hypothetical game could have endgame gear that's really easy to come by but those last 5 levels take forever so being 95 instead of 94 is zomgawesome.

[Yygdrasil]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

Any RPG that forces you to grind constantly is a bad game in my book.

Don't play anything made by Atlus or NIS.

---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:48 PM ----------

A different hypothetical game could have endgame gear that's really easy to come by but those last 5 levels take forever so being 95 instead of 94 is zomgawesome.

Case in point: Diablo 2

[Armando]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

Don't play anything made by Atlus or NIS.

I've heard that one before, lol.

[Yygdrasil]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

Mhurron and I play basically everything those 2 franchises made. Love em... every last one... but then suppose that's because I'm a grind whore.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

Eh Altus isn't so harsh about it when you know exactly what you're doing. NIS grinds aren't exactly requisite to get to the end of their SRPGs and they practically hand you the tools to powerlevel past it.

In SMT you more or less abuse the shit out of evasion and master demon/persona inheritance to overcome most things. People that just plain grind those games without mastering the use of buffs and fusion are going to get their asses kicked just as hard at a lower level as they would a higher one. SMT punishes you for not learning this.

The Matador boss in SMT Nocturn pretty much teaches you everything you need to know about SMT and he does it by shaming those that think simply grinding will help them.

OK, so maybe they are harsh about it, but they're upfront about it, too. Those that don't learn see a grind.

[drusslinn]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

Drusslinn your an idiot. Don't think you can make any assumptions about me and my personal life based upon my opinion of a video game.
I too am married, and play sparsely, I just enjoy the long road to a valued goal instead of th
e instant gratification that is abbysea.

Oh name caliing isnt nessasary , just you agreing to taking a year to lvl to cap almost seems like a life goal if you ask me , which if you think about makes you think hmm maybe I should something more productive with my time point blank .

[Mezlo]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

just you agreing to taking a year to lvl to cap almost seems like a life goal if you ask me

If this is a life goal to you, you need to aim higher... ALOT higher...

[drusslinn]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

If this is a life goal to you, you need to aim higher... ALOT higher...

Nah, I was 75 13 times over before ABY. It doesn't seem to take me too long... but then again not everyone can sit staring into space for 7-10 hours a day like I can =)~. So for the average (casual) player, ABY was a well played installment imho.

PS: If you are going to make this an insult contest, don't bother. I was only trying to debate, not name call.

[Mezlo]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

i was trying to debate not name call =p

Ok it's squashed, but for the record you started by taking my opinion, and may I say that of many others, and come to the conclusion i have no life. That in itself is offensive and might as well be name calling.

[drusslinn]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

Ok it's squashed, but for the record you started by taking my opinion, and may I say that of many others, and come to the conclusion i have no life. That in itself is offensive and might as well be name calling.

then i apoligize if i offended you tbh i include my self in that no life comment lol , was ment to be a jest , guese i worded it wrong this is my 1st time on forums and i like you mayb too blunt haha

[Murphie]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

Both of you are being kind of silly. Level 75, or 90 or 99 are accomplishments of a sort, but they are only one accomplishment possible in a very long list. Ok, so now it doesn't take much time to reach the cap. That doesn't mean anything. People reached the cap by being terrible before, but when it took a really long time (note, I didn't say it was really hard, I said it took a really long time), they thought that because they were at the cap that it meant something. It didn't. It meant that they had more time.

What really matters is how people play. What they are able to do with the game and their own skill level as a player (not just the skills their character has).

And Yyg, I'm not trying to call you out here, but you totally leeched at least two of those jobs to 90, when that was the cap. (There's nothing wrong with that.) I've gotten free levels as well, but I'm also not running around talking about how I put in like, blood sweat and tears to level my characters. I didn't. I put in time to level them. And I had very good friends who helped me to accomplish various goals. You have a knack for getting things done through sheer force of personality, and for that, you should be commended. But just because someone zooms to the same level you are and possibly gears up faster than you did doesn't make you a better player, and it doesn't make the game worse. It also, MOST IMPORTANTLY, does not diminish what you have done.

Abyssea was a pretty awesome addition to FFXI. My only issue is that now they do indeed seem to be pretty boxed in. The player base seems to be leaning quite strongly towards Abyssea like content. Which is fine. But that means that SE is stifled a bit creatively, and it also means that only an incredibly dramatic revamp of older content would get people interested in it again.

[Ketaru]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

Maybe I'm not reading it correctly but weren't you asking Kailea for a list of "things to do"? How does anything I listed not qualify as an activity? My point is that there absolutely were things to do... plenty of them. Many are currently being skipped over by the current generation. I wasn't making a list of content-based activities... but merely a list of activities in general.

None of the things you listed have actually disappeared from the game as a potential activity.

[Maranello]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

I would keep it. I don't have the time like I did before Aby makes it alot easier now for me.