What if you could take it all back...

[Yygdrasil]

READ BEFORE VOTING

Would you give up Abyssea? What if we maintained the same level increases/ability changes/spells... etc? What if we still had Empy weapons... but they had somehow incorporated them into the existing zones? What if they did the same thing to AF3 gear and the upgrade items for it? Would you be happier if Abyssea had never been introduced, or do you like things the way they are?

This vote isn't a debate over weather or not it could WORK to include the above things in the existing zones. It's also not a about weather Abyssea should have just been worked differently. This is just a flat out... would you take it all back... or was it a good idea. Vote honestly.

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Down here in the responses... feel free to discuss the ins and outs. Argue the basis behind your vote and open yourself to the harsh sting of criticism. If you would change it... what would you change? Would you change it at all? How? Why?

Food for thought

It was recently discussed on the official forums... but it would appear that the Dev team might have some regrets regarding Abyssea. They expressed in a recent interview that it has made it difficult for them to re-invigorate interest in anything outside of those zones. Link: Newest interview (abyssea was a mistake?)

My own personal food for thought

Sure, they're making adjustments to Limbus, Salvage, Dynamis, Einherjar and other stuff too... but is it too little too late? Will they ever be able to effectively pull people back out of Abyssea? What about this new stuff they've got in the works... you think it'll work to get people out or will it end up like Voidwatch and take second chair? Discuss...

[Raydeus]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

Problem is Abyssea was too successful and shade a very bright light on all the flaws the rigid, restrictive and dated gameplay XI was suffering from.

The reason why people moved to Aby and never looked back is due to a simple fact: It was fun and rewarding.*

Compare that to the "main" game which was a chore and unrewarding unless you had a decent LS.

Then add to it that the new Team got away with finally including the broken and very fun gameplay to XI because for all intents and purposes XI was on it's way out at the time, with Aby being the last (or one of the last) expansions to the main game made to squeeze some more money from the remaining players before they all moved to *lulz* Final Fantasy XIV. So, when XIV went poof and XI had actually gained more players due to Aby I'm sure someone at Squeenix was all "uh ohh..." but it was already too late by then.

So, here's the thing. The old XI was very good 5-7 years ago when players had less options and SE could afford forced grouping and everything that came with it because they had the numbers, the cool story and player disposition to support it. Fast forward to 2011, Final Fantasy XI is Abyssea, and if you try to take that away you will take away the only reason to keep playing XI anymore.


TL;DR
Either they take the time to do things properly and let Abyssea swallow Vana in it's entirety OR they kill/nerf Aby to try and bring the old Vana back to a different era -where it's not welcomed anymore- and kill XI altogether.

The choice is pretty obvious if you ask me.


*Until someone steals your Rani, of course.

[Hayde]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

"Too Little, Too Late."

With the majority of the FFXI core from circa 2004-2005 era either playing another MMO, on FFXIV, or simply not playing any games(or MMO's in particular) anymore--I can't see any good coming out of their adjustments to the old zone, if it's any like the current voidwatch incarnation (in terms of classic style through the needs of an x amount of people or LS, classic gameplay, blah blah).

Now I'm certain there are individuals who absolutely miss the whole sky/sea/limbus/assault/savage/etc. gameplay and I'll be the first to admit I had nostalgic moments once or twice while leveling up--but ultimately, I can't see a system like this working in the current 2011-soon-to-be-2012 era.

As someone who leveled from 1-75(ish) before setting foot in Abyssea, and mind you this was prior to the introduction of GoV, and the changes/additions they made to FoV, I can honestly say that classic FFXI is long gone and just as they removed Tanaka from FFXIV--they damn well need to do it again with FFXI. For some reason, according to ZAM's interview he and his crew actually thought that Abyssea and wants to go back to classic times? What? Well I suppose this MIGHT work for the Japanese community but a style like this would ultimately alienate a good proprtion of the remaining NA/EU players.

[Yygdrasil]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

See... I've always been on the fence about the whole issue. I'm one of those players who's been around since launch and seen everything happen as it happened. The thing I like (and always have) about the game is the constant addition of content that adds something moderate to the game to spice things up. Examples of these things:

- CoP and the new zones that came with it... especially the ones with challenging level caps.
- WotG with Campaign Battles and the concept of time travel to the past
- ToAU and it's new zones / Besieged
- Salvage
- Limbus
- Einherjar
- Dynamis
- Assault
- BCNMs
- KSNMs
- VNMs
- ZNMs
- Trial of the Magians
- Even the mini-expansions (to a degree... mostly for story)

Everything I just listed was added slowly as a new mid-sized event that captured our attention and occupied our interests. The wide variety of choices allowed people to split off into groups that wanted to do the same things. Time limits on entry helped to limit people obsessing about only one of them. I personally did a little Campaign, Salvage, Sky, Dynamis and Besieged because they were the things I enjoyed the most. I think my favorite part about it was that I couldn't spend all day doing it even if I wanted to (save for Campaign). I was forced to wait and let the anticipation grow towards my next opportunity to participate. Statics were normal. People had to plan and organize heavily before diving into anything. I liked that.

I'll admit that I was just another screaming fan boy when they announced level syncing. Don't get me wrong, I still like it... but it was the first loose thread in the fabric of FFXI that would lead to it's unraveling. Level syncs made it possible for people to leech. It started with basic parties... moved to SMN burns... and then continued into Abyssea and FoV/GoV.

I just feel that modern Abyssea has put the nail in the coffin for the game as it was. I still take time out every once in a while to wander the zones that I used to frequent... and admire the beauty and attention to detail that the developers put into it. I would assume that many new players these days have never been to (or even heard of) zones like Bibiki Bay - Purgonorgo Isle,Toraimari Canal, King Ramperre's Tomb, Riverne, Valley of Sorrows or just about any zone in a ToAU area apart from Wajoam Woodlands or Bhaflau Thickets. My advice to those people: If nothing else... buy a ticket for the Manaclipper and take in the sights and the sounds of the ride.

It's amazing how much there is to see and do in just about every corner of every map in this game. Have you seen the crater in Tahrongi Canyon? Have you slid down the hill in Uleguerand Range? Have you walked across the bridge that leads to the Throne Room? Have you gazed into the fog off the shores of Ilrusi Atoll? If you haven't, you should... at least once.

Abyssea is great. I really do enjoy it... but I find my attachment to it disturbing and I occasionally abandon it for weeks at a time to explore the rest of the world again and do things/go place that no one does anymore. I'm certain that if Abyssea had never been introduced that I would still be playing... and still having just as much fun as I am now. Would I get rid of it if I could? It's hard to say... but I can understand both sides of the argument. That's why I posted this poll. I'm curious to see what others think.

Also:

*Until someone steals your Rani, of course.

Cute.

---------- Post added at 11:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 PM ----------

"Too Little, Too Late."

Hey there stranger... >.>

[cidbahamut]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

Skimming some of this, but...

I wouldn't take it back. Abyssea opened a lot of doors for me.

However, Abyssea detracted from a lot of the non-combat aspects of FFXI that I enjoyed. The story seems shallow and out of place when set next to the rest of the game's storytelling. It's goofy comic book bullshit, rather than making me feel like something's actually on the line as I go off to save the world. It's also got the worst aesthetics of any expansion I'm familiar with so far.

[Yygdrasil]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

It's also got the worst aesthetics of any expansion I'm familiar with so far.

Oh you don't like re-skinned zones with purple skies?

I'll tell you the 1 thing I did like... and I forget who pointed it out to me. I like that L. Plateau, T. Canyon and K. Highlands are all missing their respective crags. It makes sense and I was happy that they put enough attention to detail in to remove them. Apart from that, I was disappoint.

[Raydeus]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

"Too Little, Too Late."

Yo, Hayde. Are you playing TOR now?

Hey there stranger... >.>

Don't worry. He is always watching you, always.

[Squiggs]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

I wouldn't go back to the way it was for anything. I consider myself a casual player (two or three nights a week for a couple hours and one day while I'm off if I'm lucky). I never did any kind of "end-game" activities before Abyssea came out. I hit 75 on WHM shortly (like a week or so) after the first Abyssea came out. I don't know if I would have been able to do Dynamis or Sky or Limbus or Einherjar (I could still do the latter three the same old way, for now). I do know that I can do Abyssea on my schedule, not the schedule of a dedicated shell. I know that between myself and a few of my close friends, we can take most of the mobs in Abyssea, and that is very satisfying for me.

Like Cid said, I miss the story aspects of the game while in Abyssea, but I can still get that from the older stories that I haven't finished (final fight for Zilart, last half of ToAU, most of WotG, and the three mini-expansions). There is still a lot of story for me to get through before I am starving for more original content.

[ShepardG]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

I loved FFXI, hell still do, but i don't play anymore and I'll atribute that decision to this question I pose to you all:

"Do you still play NES/Sega master system/Genesis/N64/Dreamcast/PS1 games on a regular basis?"

If so, I can understand how you can want that older style of FFXI. It's not a bad thing, In fact, I still turn on an emulator now and again, and play some old shinning force, or shenn-mu. Those games were fun, and to me, offered an experience that I enjoyed and continue to enjoy. However...

I've grown up a bit, i'm not 16 i'm fucking 32 (shutup) and as much as i will cherish those games, I can't play them all the time. I'm talking 3-4 times a year will i sit down and run some old ROM's and play around, but I don't sit down with all my free time and beat them all over again. Admittedly these are single/two player games, not MMO's so there is a difference there.

If you've moved on from your old systems, and games, I can see you, like myself, having moved on from 11. I went to 14 and quickly realized, through the game itself, forums, and maybe a bit about SE, that the MMO FFXI was dead for me. In all honesty, there isn't anything wrong with the game. It's just dated. It didn't evolve like WoW, or EQ. It just stayed the exact same, until abyssea. Even with the slight changes they made before hand, It was still just an old NES game to me. Fun, but not something you banked on keeping you entertained for days/weeks.

I blame alot of this on SE and the mentatlity that they took going into 11 and then into 14. They can't to this day adapt. The playerbase asks for something simple like a fix to voidwatch loot, or relic/emperyean/mythic balancing, or WS's that don't just suck, and they get ignored. Abyssea changed that alot, and litterly it seemed to go away. I won't get into the developers/producers changes that occured during the last 1.5 years, but it leads one to believe that there are folks at SE that are killing the game with stupid decisions. And the payment system was just whore-in-does.
I just came to realize that this was the way this company was, and they weren't going to start changing until they started losing player's money.

I played my 2nd ever MMO a few months ago, Rifts, and it was one of the major nails in the coffin also. I saw rift, with gorgeous lag free graphics, and an interface that made adventuring so easy, and a log in system/ payment system that made SE look like fools that I started to realize that there were better ways for me to get my entertainment, instead of tri-boxing 3 accounts to get my phurba. Rifts has it's problems, don't get me wrong, balance in that game is way out of wack, however, they designed the game to be adaptive, and when i quit shortly after patch 1.5, I knew that if they made the right decisions the game would have a long life.

I loved the FFXI story, and I loved the 14 story (what little i've seen) but SE's overall decsions in regards to 11's stories (aka. after WoTG they haven't had any, abyssea was bullshit crap, voidwatch even have a story behind it?, and their lack of anything remotely even comparable to an actual expansion) caused my final demise. I loved zilart, cop, aht urghan, and would have loved WoTG but could not bring myself to participate in a story that litterly took SE 3-4 f'ing years to complete.

I just started to realize that SE makes bad MMO's. They have great story's, but their MMO's are horrible. Compared to Rifts, FF's stories blow them out of the water, however, Rifts got the actual gameplay things right. If SE every made a decent playable game, along with their capabilities regarding stories, they'd have a multi million player MMO on their hands. But instead, they stick to their guns even when it's clear their guns are failing.

Anyway I sort of rambled, I love/ed abyssea, and felt it was a step into the right direction for 11, and if it had an engaging story line (maybe missions or quests that actually take place in regular vana'diel would be a start) It would have been, imho, what all the players are looking for. Good gameplay, good story, and you could have expanded on it even more, and carried winning aspects of abyssea even further in FFXI's life.

[Raydeus]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

I've grown up a bit, i'm not 16 i'm fucking 32

Don't worry Mister, by the looks of the birthday tab in DiV's homepage there are a lot of old geezers just like you who grew up playing XI, and have since left it behind.

The other day Mr. Tasky was talking about the trials and tribulations of old age and how his body wasn't what it used to be.

[Armando]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

I just started to realize that SE makes bad MMO's.

FFXI suffered from this, but I gave that a pass since SE had done nothing but traditional offline JRPGs up 'til then. It really shows in FFXI's design, especially in the jobs (e.g. melee combat consists of applying self-buffs instead of actually doing stuff.) I figured that after 10 years of running this game, FFXIV would be everything FFXI did right plus none of the things they did wrong, but they went and fucked that up. I'm not going to rail on them too hard though. At this point I'm convinced that no one can make an MMO that will give me the same quality of entertainment as a non-MMO game, because the point of any MMO is to get its players to grind.

To answer the actual question: I'd take Abyssea back. I want them to expand the world, not make parallel dimensions of it.

[Kailea]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

I would take it all back, in fact if Abyssea never existed, I would still be playing.

[Raydeus]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

Yeah, having one consolidated server left for all the 5k players still enjoying vanilla XI after all this time sounds like real fun. XD



Edit > Wait, that could actually work. How about using one of the old servers to give players a chance to replay XI before Aby and see if it would actually work as advertised. Keep in mind it wouldn't have any new content past Scenarios, and no Level sync or FOV/GOV, but if people were really enjoying the game more back then a voluntary migration to that server could help decide things.

[Hayde]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

Yo, Hayde. Are you playing TOR now?




Don't worry. He is always watching you, always.

Hello,

As for your ToR question, early access begins on the 13th--I'll probably get in then since I pre-ordered relatively early, but I'll be busy with finals up until Wednesday night/Thursday so I probably see much time invested into the game until then.

As for the second comment--stranger eh? I just talked to you on Skype like 2 weeks ago, lol.

[Raydeus]

Re: What if you could take it all back...

You know Yggy, he gets lonely fast.