Game Balance and User Frustration

[Neverslip]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I bet my blu could do it better once I finish it

Do you hear that?

... it's the wind whispering to you... "Charged Whisker... Burn. Charged Whisker... Burn"

[Murphie]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I'm still not having much luck with that, but I think am still pretty weak on gear and the correct atmas. It's frustrating, because I am already lol enough. ;/

[Taskmage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I think the problem there is that the majority of Red Mages are confused about what class they are actually playing. And by that I of course mean 99% of RDM melee players are pants-on-head-retarded and refuse to accept the reality that the iconic image of Red Mage does not match the Red Mage as it has evolved in FFXI, nor will it ever.

I don't think the rdm community has more pants-on-head retarded people than the rest of the playerbase, it's just that retarded rdms stick out a lot more. I mean if you invited a retarded DD to an old meripo, you'd just have one guy doing less damage. Invite a retarded rdm and ALL the DDs are doing 15% less damage, people are dying right and left to pecking flurry because the cures aren't coming fast enough or because these colibris are using tier III nukes somehow and you're fighting multiple mobs at once because of a <bt> in a certain Dia macro. Rdm is not just easy to fuck up, it is easy to fuck up big time stylee.

With the RDM, one thing it does bring to the table is versatility. It will never be the best at anything unless Squeenix wants to break the class but it can fit neatly into a number of roles. I think the majority of the RDM community really lack the understanding of what a generalist class is. If you want to be the best at something, go and play a specialist. Most RDMs would be best off just switching to SCh of they want to be a mage that can take on multiple roles.

Imo, rdm was best balanced in the CoP era, when a rdm could be invited to take the place of either a blm or a whm, but the specialist was usually preferred. That was back when parties still had dedicated tanks, rested between chains and magic bursted, targeted high-VT/low-IT mobs that are actually worth enfeebling, and a variety of jobs in the party setup was actually a good thing. Iirc the community considered rdm to be underpowered back then, because we never got picked for those good parties in Onzozo where you needed Stona. But I digress.

Adequate at many roles but not preferred at any is, imo, the correct balance of power for rdm. Having a niche in the enfeebling department was nice, too, and it worked out because it was something we could excel at that didn't let us eclipse any other job in traditional party roles. When rdm actually became preferred over whm that was obviously a big screw-up on SE's part and it's a good thing that's no longer the case. What's happened now, though, is that rdm is no longer even adequate at any of the roles it performs.

My best cure heals about 600 hp. That's not even a third of my black mage's hp total in abyssea. So if a mob TPs or has a particularly good round and takes out half a melee's HP, it's going to take me at least 4 spells to get that one person back on his feet. If it was an AoE we've got a big problem. It basically feels like trying to main heal in Valkurm without Cure II. If you're fighting anything serious in abyssea, you want a whm, period, and a whm is a strong enough healer than it doesn't really need a rdm to back it up. Likewise for nuking. A rdm can drop a very decent tier IV and our empyrean set supports that quite well, but damage is secondary to being able to proc yellow, which practically requires a blm. All the proc spells a rdm gets are covered by the blm, so once the blm arrives there's really no point in the rdm.

---------- Post added at 05:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:06 PM ----------

I'm still not having much luck with that, but I think am still pretty weak on gear and the correct atmas. It's frustrating, because I am already lol enough. ;/

How are you gearing for it? Whisker is rather counter-intuitively dependent on DEX rather than INT. Are you prepping the mobs with Sound Blast and Enervation?

[Neverslip]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

How are you gearing for it? Whisker is rather counter-intuitively dependent on DEX rather than INT.

Pretty sure it starts with Physical Damage down gear for the pulling. Then they switch a bunch of sh!t, do a lil dance, make a little love, and mobs get down tonight. I'll ask someone to post on our LS guildwork page a walkthrough or something. I know they were all a lil annoyed I lotted and won my Aias Bonnet (-20 Hp, STR/DEX +8, Acc +5 ... great WS piece for my THF or DNC).

I just googled Charged Whisker setup and there were many hits. Couldn't look at them at work but perused them a bit on my phone. Looks complicated. I'm just gonna ask my LS.

[Taskmage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Oh, I know how it works. PDT+Cocoon up, pull mobs, AoE Sleep, Enervation, Sound Blast, Memento Mori, pile on as much dex and MAB as you can, Whisker and 1-shot everything. Pearl anything still on its feet.

[Neverslip]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Ah... I misunderstood where you were asking the question despite the quote right above your text. Me so sweeeeepy.

[Firewind]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I think the problem there is that the majority of Red Mages are confused about what class they are actually playing. And by that I of course mean 99% of RDM melee players are pants-on-head-retarded and refuse to accept the reality that the iconic image of Red Mage does not match the Red Mage as it has evolved in FFXI, nor will it ever.

Really you hit the nail on the head there Drjones. The majority of RDMs should really be playing another class.

Honestly, a lion's share of the whiners about the RDM class would really be best off playing a Scholar. SCHs are a very versatile class that can switch roles on the fly if they are forced to but they won't be better than a BLM or WHM at nuking or healing respectively.

A lot of the other whiners would probably be better off just rolling a DD class. All abysses parties will welcome a MNK, NIN, THF or DNC. If you want to DD and support then they might be better off playing COR or DNC since they offer great support and offensive abilities. If you want to nuke then BLM, and SCH are there.

The concept behind being a "Jack of All Trades, Master of None" is exactly what it says on the tin. You can do everything well but you will never be the best at it. Yes elitists and idiots will shun you for not being the best at a role but that does not make you the worst either. A smart party leader will realise that a RDM can fill in a large variety of roles and will use RDMs to cover what a party's backline (or even front line) is lacking.

My best cure heals about 600 hp. That's not even a third of my black mage's hp total in abyssea. So if a mob TPs or has a particularly good round and takes out half a melee's HP, it's going to take me at least 4 spells to get that one person back on his feet. If it was an AoE we've got a big problem. It basically feels like trying to main heal in Valkurm without Cure II. If you're fighting anything serious in abyssea, you want a whm, period, and a whm is a strong enough healer than it doesn't really need a rdm to back it up.

I actually feel VERY comfortable with a RDM beside me. Why? Okay I will get this out of the way and say I would be lying if I said I did not like the idea of a safety net for any of my screw ups. I like having a RDM around because a healer RDM backing me up quite simply just makes me more efficient. I can focus on healing and buffing those who need it while a RDM can basically ensure that the alliance's support is running nice and tight.

Basically it's like an engine running with fresh oil. Sure an engine can run fine with old oil for a while but if you want everything toe be perfect you're going to need fresh oil. Melee classes love having Bards around since they boost their performance. I like having a RDM to back me up for the very same reason.

Does this mean I think that a RDM is currently resigned to the "WHM'/BLM's bitch" role right now? Unfortunately yes it seems that way if we look at just Abyssea Parties. Do I want the class like that? No. No class should have that role.

IMHO, RDMs don't need a class changing update or even spells from another class. That needs changing is the playerbase's conceptions towards the class. A lot of people unfortunately see RDMs being relegated to "Bitch Class" as a sort of catharsis from the ToAU era. I know a lot of WHMs who still taunt RDMs about not having the Premier Healer role anymore. Other people see the RDM not having a specialisation as a weakness when it's in fact a major strength of the RDM.

Basically the challenge with getting RDMs more invites lies in the following:

1) Not making the class more powerful or as powerful as a specialist. This is actually the reason why I'm Anti-"Give RDM Cure V"

2) Changing the playerbase's current conception about the class (AKA the "lolDRG Syndrome") while sticking to the above point.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Honestly, a lion's share of the whiners about the RDM class would really be best off playing a Scholar. SCHs are a very versatile class that can switch roles on the fly if they are forced to but they won't be better than a BLM or WHM at nuking or healing respectively.

I'm not sure I agree with this sentiment. While SCH can indeed switch roles on the fly, it cannot fill multiple roles at the same time the way Red Mage can. There's just too much of a bottle neck with Addendums and stratagems for them to do both at once the way a Red Mage can if hard pressed.

A Scholar and a back-line Red Mage do not offer the same utility.

[Firewind]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I didn't mean to imply that, but thanks for pointing it out.

[Taskmage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

So long as we're on SCH, SE should throw those guys a bone and at least make helices proc yellow. >_>

[Mhurron]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

1) Not making the class more powerful or as powerful as a specialist. This is actually the reason why I'm Anti-"Give RDM Cure V"

Until the level cap was raised, RDM was one cure spell behind WHM. Raising the level cap changed this. giving RDM Cure V would not overpower it or make it the best healer (it never was), but it would allow RDM to more easily be used when a WHM can't be found, or actually useful in an Abyssea party.

---------- Post added at 07:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 PM ----------

So long as we're on SCH, SE should throw those guys a bone and at least make helices proc yellow. >_>

SCH needs Cure V too.

[Firewind]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Until the level cap was raised, RDM was one cure spell behind WHM. Raising the level cap changed this. giving RDM Cure V would not overpower it or make it the best healer (it never was), but it would allow RDM to more easily be used when a WHM can't be found, or actually useful in an Abyssea party.

---------- Post added at 07:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 PM ----------



SCH needs Cure V too.

We still have 9 levels worth of spells to go. I can realistically see RDM and SCH getting access to Cure V. The reason why I laugh at people who whine about class balance right now, is that things may well change Balance-Wise at Lv99.

[Elwynn]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

All the proc spells a rdm gets are covered by the blm, so once the blm arrives there's really no point in the rdm.

Except for Dispel.

[Taskmage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Except for Dispel.

Relevant three hours out of every seven and odds are the blm or whm will be subbing rdm or sch. Yeah.

[Firewind]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

The WHM can cover that by subbing RDM or SCH.

EDIT: Ninja'd but yeah, anyone subbing RDM or SCH can cast Dispel.