Game Balance and User Frustration

[Bigfish]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Just my 2 cents so take it for what it's worth, but at what point does RDM melee reach the level of "acceptable"? Or any of a RDM's roles really?

The thing with any sort of hybrid class is that they have to balanced just right. Too far in one direction, and they overshadow the single role jobs. Too little, and no one wants them. You also have to factor in skill, where a mediocre hyrbid may perform well in relation to a mediocre main, but a superb hybrid may outperform a superb main, or vice versa where a superb hybrid performs fine in relation to a superb main, but the mediocre hybrid is a joke to a medioce main.

Now, I've just come back from hiatus, so I can't really say where I think anything stands currently. All I can really say is that all the hidden calculations aren't doing us any favors on the parsers since its darn near impossible to determine how much damage a RDM saved by landing Blind on a mob, or how much extra damage did the melee do because of Gravity? Do fights even last long enough for it to matter? And so on...

[Taskmage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

All I can really say is that all the hidden calculations aren't doing us any favors on the parsers since its darn near impossible to determine how much damage a RDM saved by landing Blind on a mob, or how much extra damage did the melee do because of Gravity? Do fights even last long enough for it to matter? And so on...

These things are calculable but irrelevant. Ninjas tank everything and they can provide their own blind, slow and paralyze, and if not dealing enough damage is a concern, the solution is to invite another DD not a rdm. Inside abyssea a rdm basically has two assets: halfway decent nukes and the shortest recast time on stun. The only time I really feel justified bringing rdm to abyssea anymore is when we're up against something like Assailer Chariot or Xibalba or Dhorme Khimaira—mobs with moves than need to be stunned often and reliably. Outside abyssea rdm's selling point isn't in any particular function it performs but in having the best mp endurance available.

[Ketaru]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Just my 2 cents so take it for what it's worth, but at what point does RDM melee reach the level of "acceptable"?

Razed Ruins, Sanguine Scythe, and Gnarled Horn. Probably sounds like a sad commentary on the metagame today. But it is true.

Wait, what the fuck? You have a Zelus Tiara but you're bitching about a Goading Belt o-O ?!

D:

Our linkshell really isn't a dedicated Abyssea linkshell. I mean, we do it, but mostly to the end of getting people Shinryu access/win and key atma. Our linkshell leader put this out to everyone: "I'll help you kill your NMs, but you have to get the triggers."

Basically, all of my Empyrean+2 armor was a result of me getting triggers and our linkshell leader offering me help. Some of those triggers were a result for me farming the NM KIs on BST. Others were using the method you suggested- amber box farming. That is the way I did it for Amhuluk, Bukhis, Sobek, Titlacuaun, and Ulhuadshi. I could've probably also farmed NMs for some of those (like Amhuluk is fairly easy), but I also wanted to get Empyrean shoes for the rest of our linkshell.

Ultimately, our willingness to farm triggers amounts to our ability to get gear. But I'm burnt out from it.

So yeah, if I do it again, it will probably be for Lacovie. But unlike +2 drops, that isn't even 100%. And as I'm fond of ranting in this game, I am immensely turned off by luck factor when it comes to drops. My thing is: You can beat the mob, you deserve the drop. So that that is a huge deterrent to me even bothering with Lacovie. It probably sounds pathetic, but I get very distraught when I get people to help me kill something and it doesn't even drop the item I wanted.

Do you have the 3 add-on scenarios? The Redingote sucks regardless, even if you slapped on +10 acc and +3 crit rate but a Selenian Cap with Acc +10/Attack +5 and STR +4 / WS Acc +15 would be marginally better, lol. In fact the only one that seems even remotely worth it is the Tatsumaki Sitagoromo with Critical Hit Damage +3% and Accuracy +7.

I used my ACP body piece for my BST. A Pet Acc/Pet Double Attack body piece. I figure why not use it to get stats I can't get anywhere else? A lot of players might gripe about how inefficient it is. But I don't want to ask linkshell members to drop what they're doing just to help me get loot for myself so I saw it as an opportunity.

As for the situation with RDMs drop in desirability, I suppose I'm lucky I'm in such an inclusive linkshell. We don't turn people away from events based on jobs. You might be sitting on your hands a lot at events if you don't have the jobs we need, but dems the breaks. Luckily, I can still do stuff on RDM.

[Malacite]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

So bottom line is RDM doesn't need new gear - it needs access to more of the current melee gear that BLU can also wear.

Seriously what the hell? Is SE that paranoid of melee RDM suddenly overtaking the game and everyone just does 18 RDM in an alliance? ...


Why Sanguine Scythe, just curious? Voracious Violet would probably help a lot more. Other jobs like WAR can get away with SS because they already have a lot of STR, TP Gain & Crit Damage (WAR +2 boots are just bullshit OP, they really are. Not to mention Twilight Gear for WS) while RDM has no native abilities to really enhance melee dps or TP gain, excluding the +15 acc from Composure.


Honestly though, give RDM Homam/Ocelot SE. There's no real good reason for locking out light-medium DD gear that BLU can also wear.

[Ketaru]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Oh. Pfft, I don't know these things. I just wear what other people wear.

[Armando]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

So bottom line is RDM doesn't need new gear - it needs access to more of the current melee gear that BLU can also wear.

I don't think anything will allow RDM to melee unless the job is completely redesigned such that meleeing is necessary to accomplish the things the job is invited for. That's a damned tall order.

But I'm not a RDM. I don't have years of insight on endgame tendencies and the job's inner workings.

[Ketaru]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

So bottom line is RDM doesn't need new gear - it needs access to more of the current melee gear that BLU can also wear.

Seriously what the hell? Is SE that paranoid of melee RDM suddenly overtaking the game and everyone just does 18 RDM in an alliance? ...

I don't know if that's what they're afraid of, but it does frustrate me when I think of how deliberate the shift seems. Even when pitted against BLU, for example. For a very long time, the 2 jobs had access to more or less the same melee gear. In fact, for a good while, some of the gear that was nice and relatively accessible for RDM were actually the same as that of jobs like DRG and THF.

Mhurron is probably right about the job getting less frontline updates because the majority of the playerbase demand for backline utility in the job.

So why do spiteful things like put the job on so much of the new Ranged damage dealing gear like Nemus Peti, Missile Boots, or Bersail Cap? Because it isn't as if people are clamoring for RDMs to be just like RNGs only with magic. But lock the job out of key new pieces like Loki's Kaftan? If the job really is not a big contender for a spot in the frontline, then giving the job the same gear availability it always had should be a harmless move.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Is SE that paranoid of melee RDM suddenly overtaking the game and everyone just does 18 RDM in an alliance?

To be fair, this has been a fantasy of mine ever since I figured out just how amazing Chainspell is.

I don't think anything will allow RDM to melee unless the job is completely redesigned such that meleeing is necessary to accomplish the things the job is invited for. That's a damned tall order.

But I'm not a RDM. I don't have years of insight on endgame tendencies and the job's inner workings.

Nah, you're pretty spot on.

[Taskmage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I don't think anything will allow RDM to melee unless the job is completely redesigned such that meleeing is necessary to accomplish the things the job is invited for. That's a damned tall order.

I think for rdm to get accepted as melee, melee would have to be given some new utility other than just damage. Sword procs would have been one way to do it, but it wasn't in the cards since rdm doesn't natively get RLB or Seraph Blade. (What's up with that btw? The one sword user with magic attack bonus doesn't get access to the good magical sword WSes?) A few years ago I would have said to give rdm abilities that allow them to debuff with melee, but that slice of design pie got eaten by dnc. Death Blossom was an awesome idea imo, opening for light and darkness skillchains and prepping the mob to take full damage from the chain and any MBs, but it was a bit late in coming considering tactical skillchains had long been abandoned.

I dunno. I think the right balance for rdm is somewhere in the middle of dnc, blu and sch, but it would take a brilliant design to get it into that position without screwing other jobs or overpowering the job.

[Ketaru]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Skillchains are a bad thing, yo!

I actually brought my RDM to melee in an EXP party yesterday and there was a SAM using Tachi: Gekko. It wasn't intentional, but I was closing with Evisceration and doing Darkness skillchains which resulted in Ruby lights. Not that Ruby lights are as terrible as people make of it, but somebody got pretty mad at me.

The omission of Red Lotus Blade and Seraph Blade, barring specific subjobs, has always confused me

But I will never forgive them for not letting RDM use Sanguine Blade natively since, of the Sword jobs, RDM is clearly the one that can use it to its best potential and could probably be considered a very solid Weaponskill outside of Abyssea (or even inside if your intent is on building Amber lights, or just plain not having to heal yourself). Good God. Our Empyrean gear is actually very well suited for dealing damage with that weaponskill.

[Taskmage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Don't forget mobs like freakin Glavoid where an accidental skillchain can heal back as much life as your weaponskill did damage. Somewhere along the line skillchains went from just not being worth it to something you should actively avoid.

[Ketaru]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I'm going to be honest, for all this talk about RDM, I may really wish they would give RDM the gear availability it always had. But I'm really not too worried about the job's future.

Earlier, SCH was brought into the discussion. It's SCH I'm worried about. Now more than ever even. Of course, job-ism has always existed in this game. But I felt the contemptible sting of it last night when somebody who was formerly a SCH said he quit the job because he thought it was useless, even though he openly admits it's fun.

The census shows that SCH hasn't fared well as far as people playing the job is concerned. You may blame it on lack of procs, but the fact is this is not all that different from prior to the Abyssea explosion. There was even a time when it was demonstrated that SCH was possibly a superior nuker to BLM, when it's ability to AoE status cure was the ire of WHMs. And even ignoring those, it is still a mage through and through, at a time when the mage jobs were played like hotcakes. They still are, in fact.

And yet, SCH never seems to have caught on with the playerbase. Why?

[cidbahamut]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I think it's all the JA juggling coupled with the job being less than straight forward what with all its weather effects and quirky mechanics. The addition of a bunch of weirder and weirder stuff post 75 did not help its appeal. If anything all the new stuff turned me off from the job even more. The macro palettes for playing Scholar properly must be an absolute nightmare to navigate.

[Malacite]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I think it's all the JA juggling coupled with the job being less than straight forward what with all its weather effects and quirky mechanics.

What JA juggling?! RDM has a grand total of three abilities.


You want juggling, play SCH PUP or DNC.

[Taskmage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

What JA juggling?! RDM has a grand total of three abilities.


You want juggling, play SCH PUP or DNC.

TRY READING THE FUCKING POST!

SCH

Scholar

JESUS I MEAN BASIC READING COMPREHENSION HERE!