Job Adjustments (04/21/2011)

[cidbahamut]

Re: Job Adjustments (04/21/2011)

The real question is why don't you have a Pony avatar?

[Malacite]

Re: Job Adjustments (04/21/2011)

It's horribly OP right now.

No, Melee are horribly OP right now. Biiiiiiiig difference.

Again, it's totally possibly for RDM to break 600+ HP Cure IV's with gear, atma too if needed. The problem is that WHM can keep up with the loss of HP much more safely because 5 and 6 generate the same hate as a 3, where as RDM & SCH have to use 4 which is a shit magnet.

You have to consider the broad applications of giving RDM 5, and not just the immediate party scene. There's not much else SE can do if they give RDM & SCH Cure V save for some passive trait that reduces healing magic MP cost because another Cure spell would be stupid, as would cure potency traits.

WHM can already get very close to the CP cap outside of Abyssea.


Surya Staff +2 22%
Orison Earring 2%
Orison Cape 3%
Orison Cap +2 10%

That's 37% right there, all easy stuff to get. I don't include Noble's Tunic on purpose because the AF3 body is actually better and if you really need another 10% you can use Atma of the Rescuer. Left out Roundel Earring & Fylgja Torque on purpose as well as they're rare/expensive, but those are another +7~8%.

I'd be ok with letting Cure 5 go *if* WHM got something to compensate, but I just can't see what SE could do that wouldn't just make WHM OP entirely.

[Murphie]

Re: Job Adjustments (04/21/2011)

I'm wondering why Firewind got all RL > FFXI on us when no one was contending that. We were just saying that maybe reading patch notes isn't the same as actually being in the game.

Also, I was never all loooool WHM or anything, so I don't really need the shoe to be on either foot. And hell, I'm not even a RDM anymore, so it's not like I'm advocating for it out of personal need.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Job Adjustments (04/21/2011)

I feel like I'm arguing with a brick wall here.

[Murphie]

Re: Job Adjustments (04/21/2011)

It's Malacite. So, basically.

[Firewind]

Re: Job Adjustments (04/21/2011)

That's exactly the point I was trying to make. You give RDM & SCH Cure 5, coupled with their superior MP endurance and WHM will be relegated back to a very niche end-game role. Also take note that again, Cure 6 is both only feasible and only necessary within Abyssea, Outside it's overkill for the MP it costs.

Since they buffed Sublimation royally, SCH can pretty much keep up with RDM now for MP endurance. So why invite a WHM? Don't really need R3 with EXP being so stupidly easy to get now, and the bulk of EXP mobs aren't even all that dangerous. Never mind that melee DD's are getting more and more OP with each update.


Again, *why* do you want Cure V, other than to bone over WHMs? If your Cure IV isn't cutting it it's likely because you have a crappy cure potency set. That's not SE's problem. Lowering the enmity on cures in general is kick-ass for everyone and should help SCH & RDM just fine without taking away from WHM.

I dunno but apparently to the others Abyssea = class balance or something. I'm not quite sure. Apparently overpowered bonuses available to everyone that makes a class more desirable instantly makes it overpowered no matter what a class has access to or how they would perform outside of Abyssea or if the Abyssea bonuses get nerfed.

[Murphie]

Re: Job Adjustments (04/21/2011)

Why do you keep making assumptions about everyone else? It's not helpful. Since, again, you don't actually play the game right now, you don't realize that no one does anything else. So what matters right now are the things that everyone are doing.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments (04/21/2011)

And I feel like every time anything gets a job adjustment and RDM doesn't, RDM bitches because they didn't. And then when RDM does get something, they bitch because it's not enough.

RDM has the best MP regen in the game without any subjob support to speak of and just got a way that helps them out with enmity which admittedly was a problem with Cure IV. RDMs with a good healing set - not even a leet one, just a good one - shouldn't have any issue being able to keep up with parties and now should not have any trouble with hate really, but people are still complaining that they want more. So of course you have the WHM people coming in and saying, "Hey, what more do you want? You were prime for like four years! Step back and let another job fucking shine already."

RDMs have a very high sense of entitlement. And I did play RDM, for many years, but I always maintained that RDM needed nothing. I still firmly believe that. And yet every time a job update rolls around the RDMs are crying bloody murder when they don't get to be the OMFGPWN only class worth leveling. You want to talk about OP? RDM was up there for a pretty damn long while with regards to being able to do absolutely everything - and well. Not just "Jack of all trades, master of none." No, it was "Jack of all trades and pretty fucking amazing at all of them." RDM doesn't need anything but a reality check, if you ask me.

And know that I'm not attacking anyone personally, I've just been on forums for a long time and all I see is RDMs whining everywhere. It's old. Very.

[Murphie]

Re: Job Adjustments (04/21/2011)

Do you know how many HP a MNK has in Aby? I'm just curious.

Or for a less extreme example, a WAR.

[Taskmage]

Re: Job Adjustments (04/21/2011)

Besides, didn't you know? SE's way of "balancing" the game comes from letting one job be totally OP for a while, then nerfing it into the ground to give another job a chance to shine, then nerfing that job into the ground to give another job a turn to shine. They figure it will all even out in the end when every job has had equal opportunity to shine. If you didn't level it during its peak, oh well, too bad for you.

This. Being a healer isn't complicated. You cast cure spells and you try not to run out of mp. As long as every healer is trying to do the exact same thing, either one class is going to be strictly superior or they're all going to be clones. If you want to have more than one valid choice for healer class, each of them has to do their jobs differently. Give one job the strongest cures, let a different job get the cures that come with stoneskin, and give another job the strongest regens to cover for their weaker spike cures. Oh, and maybe give each of them a valid way to restore their mp?

Here's a rdm-specific idea: How about making fights last for long enough that enfeebling magic gets a chance to meaningfully reduce the mob's damage output to the point where Cure III & IV can be adequate?

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments (04/21/2011)

It's not relevant to the point I was trying to make. RDMs complain about everything and it's annoying. It's never ever enough for RDMs. Ever.

---------- Post added at 01:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------

Here's a rdm-specific idea: How about making fights last for long enough that enfeebling magic gets a chance to meaningfully reduce the mob's damage output to the point where Cure III & IV can be adequate?

And this.

[Murphie]

Re: Job Adjustments (04/21/2011)

Aks, every fucking job bitches. Just because you notice RDM bitching more doesn't mean they do it more. I'll agree that for many years RDM didn't need anything, but yeah, there are Malacite's for every job out there, so you're always going to get someone complaining. I've played this game for years and I've never been all RAWR THIS JOB IS BROKEN MOER BUFFS FOR [JOB]! All I'm saying is that right now, RDM could use SOMEthing. SCH too.


EDIT: Also, my point was relevant, but thanks for admitting that no, you have no idea.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Job Adjustments (04/21/2011)

If you want to have more than one valid choice for healer class, each of them has to do their jobs differently. Give one job the strongest cures, let a different job get the cures that come with stoneskin, and give another job the strongest regens to cover for their weaker spike cures.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments (04/21/2011)

Maybe they could. But you can go back through every job adjustment thread on this forum for the past three years and I guarantee that if you look through them, there will always be a few "WTF RDM didn't get anything" posts which will very often turn the whole thread into a RDM bitchfest. It has happened that way on several occasions.

I used to see it on Alla too when I posted there, and to a lesser extent, on BG, though I've never really read the news threads on BG because the arguing is generally more civil here. (But they're king for the media threads and anything off-topic.)

I'm just very tired of hearing people whine over what RDM did or did not get. The only thing remotely similar was the SMNs bitching about no new avatar, which, thankfully, has died. You'd think that the Composure update would have kept RDMs quiet for a while but it didn't.

[Murphie]

Re: Job Adjustments (04/21/2011)

I think you have an observational bias, but that's cool.