The February Mini-Update Goes Live! (02/14/2011)

[Aeni]

Re: The February Mini-Update Goes Live! (02/14/2011)

again, it's biggest problem is still the fact that it can't keep the mob's attention when up against a good DD;

I know, I'm old school, from a different era, but wasn't there a time when there was such thing as being a "good DD" in the sense that you knew how to hold back and when to let go? Same with the tank ... a time to hold hate like Krazy Glue and to let it go.

This game seems to have evolved (or devolved) into something unrecognizable for me...

[Aksannyi]

Re: The February Mini-Update Goes Live! (02/14/2011)

Well there have always been idiot DDs. Even in my linkshell which was generally considered top-tier, there were a few people who didn't realize (or moreso didn't care) when they were crossing the hate line. All about the epeen baby. Topping the parses.

[Neverslip]

Re: The February Mini-Update Goes Live! (02/14/2011)

I find it funny that just before Abyssea, experience parties had to have a PLD or they wouldn't happen. It was awesome gathering together or being asked to come to a party only to find out that god's gift to experience parties... the almighty PLD was leaving or possibly never even found so the leader disbands. Yeah... that was good times. /sarcasm

I'm glad those days are over but I do feel bad that PLD have fallen so far off the "needed" radar. It's hilarious to me that these days tanking is "NIN, THF, MNK, DNC or GTFO!!!" when I was typically ridiculed for even leveling DNC past sub.

Anyway... anyone done any solo xp'n? I've been wanting to fo out on my NIN or even my 10MNK and xp but things keep distracting me. How are the numbers looking ?

[Aksannyi]

Re: The February Mini-Update Goes Live! (02/14/2011)

Some posts about it in the Battle Adjustments thread. I obviously haven't done any but the numbers look great.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The February Mini-Update Goes Live! (02/14/2011)

Malacite: Try this thought experiment.

Let's say the PLD hold the monsters from the following, but do less damage than they do: WAR, NIN, SAM, MNK.

Now, you've 4 people left to pick jobs for for a mix session of light/TE/gold-box gathering and NM hunting/popping in Abyssea, and can set those 4 people as 4 of 5 jobs: PLD, WAR, NIN, SAM, and MNK.

Which 4 jobs will you pick? Assuming you already have BLU and BRD and BLM and WHM (plus RDM and/or SCH), and those are set.

Leaving out which job is going to help you kill faster? Leaving out which job would have the least impact on number of triggers you can do?

Even if PLD can hold the NMs from a MNK or WAR, do you want the PLD there?


The message the community is telling us PLD players is, "Don't want PLD." Not until PLD can do the same amount of damage as "real DDs". Which basically is saying the rest of the players don't want a job whose core concept is trading damage output for better damage mitigation and survivability.

---------- Post added at 03:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:47 PM ----------

It's hilarious to me that these days tanking is "NIN, THF, MNK, DNC or GTFO!!!" when I was typically ridiculed for even leveling DNC past sub.

I've never heard of anyone asking for DNC tank in the Abyssea era; if DNC is mentioned at all, it's about how there's yet another one taking 40 minutes to solo something which can be done in 5 minutes with everything triggered if the DNC would just go away.

And, you left out WAR for tanking.

[Neverslip]

Re: The February Mini-Update Goes Live! (02/14/2011)

you left out WAR for tanking.

Mostly cuz I don't see them used for tanking... ever.

if DNC is mentioned at all, it's about how there's yet another one taking 40 minutes to solo something which can be done in 5 minutes with everything triggered if the DNC would just go away.

I've run across those random DNC solo'n the mob my party/alliance wants and usually they have been open to us aiding them since we have tons of grellow/blue/red poppers so we don't have to wait forever.

I've never heard of anyone asking for DNC tank in the Abyssea eral

DNC is amazing at tanking in Abyssea. I've tanked many an NM for my LS when the usual DNC they use didn't show. It's a hate machine. While I was on a Azdaja run, a random DNC saw the alliance I was in (as a SAM) keep wiping... They offered to help and after I convinced the alliance leader to get them, suddenly we had a tank that didn't die. That Worm ate through our MNK, THF, WAR, and NIN cuz our healers couldn't survive the AoE to heal them...but the random DNC wrapped that worm around their little finger.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The February Mini-Update Goes Live! (02/14/2011)

Mostly cuz I don't see them used for tanking... ever.

Heh. I figured that; but, now you know why I say that about DNC.

DNC is amazing at tanking in Abyssea. It's a hate machine.

It depends on the player's skill/gear and the NM, but generally speaking I don't think this is the case; it's extremely difficult to out generate enmity from a comparably buffed WAR or MNK, if not impossible.

While I was on a Azdaja run, a random DNC saw the alliance I was in (as a SAM) keep wiping... They offered to help and after I convinced the alliance leader to get them, suddenly we had a tank that didn't die. That Worm ate through our MNK, THF, WAR, and NIN cuz our healers couldn't survive the AoE to heal them...but the random DNC wrapped that worm around their little finger.

I hope it wasn't the case all four of them were on the critter at once--feeding lots of TP to a Wyrm (not 'Worm') is not a good idea.


* * *

I had fun tanking Isgebind (Wyrm in Abysea-Uleguerand) on PLD. I hope SE will give players more instead of fewer reasons to use PLD tank for Wyrms in the future.

[cidbahamut]

Re: The February Mini-Update Goes Live! (02/14/2011)

Well there have always been idiot DDs. Even in my linkshell which was generally considered top-tier, there were a few people who didn't realize (or moreso didn't care) when they were crossing the hate line. All about the epeen baby. Topping the parses.

Trying to top the parse is a good way to earn a dirt nap, courtesy of the healer who knows that the party will operate more efficiently once you're dead and no longer eating up all the MP that's supposed to go toward hasting everyone. Yes I am bitter and resentful.

[Aksannyi]

Re: The February Mini-Update Goes Live! (02/14/2011)

Yeah that's how I was too, and I got chastised for it. Apparently, I'm supposed to use cures to mask stupid. It doesn't work that way. Let stupid die, then stupid learns. Sometimes.

[Romyro]

Re: The February Mini-Update Goes Live! (02/14/2011)

if DNC is mentioned at all, it's about how there's yet another one taking 40 minutes to solo something which can be done in 5 minutes with everything triggered if the DNC would just go away.

Hey, good for the Dnc. There are so many occasions where I want to pop a NM only to find it camped by 1 or 2 groups that plan on killing it 15 more times…and their not willing to share.

Do you know that it’s borderline impossible for me to get my Bst head +2 because the Hecteye/Worm are CONSTANLY camped for Emph Weapon items. Abyssea has brought out the ‘jackass’ in people even more so than before.

And it finally hit this guy
<-

[cidbahamut]

Re: The February Mini-Update Goes Live! (02/14/2011)

Yeah that's how I was too, and I got chastised for it. Apparently, I'm supposed to use cures to mask stupid. It doesn't work that way. Let stupid die, then stupid learns. Sometimes.

Even if stupid doesn't learn, the dirt nap keeps them out of the way so they don't fuck up whatever it is we're doing.

[Aksannyi]

Re: The February Mini-Update Goes Live! (02/14/2011)

True. Then they bitch about not getting R3. Because I tend to not R3 people who are dumb. They're all like, "But I don't have a buffer!" And I say, "All the more reason you should try harder not to die."

[Cotners]

Re: The February Mini-Update Goes Live! (02/14/2011)

True. Then they bitch about not getting R3. Because I tend to not R3 people who are dumb. They're all like, "But I don't have a buffer!" And I say, "All the more reason you should try harder not to die."

One of my favorite things about Abyssea is that exp is bountiful and dying means almost nothing. None of the people that I play with care what kind of raise they recieve.

[Malacite]

Re: The February Mini-Update Goes Live! (02/14/2011)

Eh PLD still has the ability to trigger several red and blue !!, and swift blade is PLD only so it's not screwed in that regard. In fact, with Chant a PLD should be able to out damage SAM and DRK (it's a pretty damn strong WS).

But on average a PLD won't be able to keep up with said DDs, and in order to do so it has to sacrifice Atmas that would help tank/survive better.

I wouldn't stress over it too much though, as I'm pretty sure the final lv 99 content will not be inside Abyssea and for all we know SE is planning to tweak PLD with this in mind.

[Karinya]

Re: The February Mini-Update Goes Live! (02/14/2011)

The message the community is telling us PLD players is, "Don't want PLD." Not until PLD can do the same amount of damage as "real DDs". Which basically is saying the rest of the players don't want a job whose core concept is trading damage output for better damage mitigation and survivability.

It was the same thing in the colibriburn era for the same reason: the mitigation and survivability aren't necessary. Monsters need to be dangerous enough to kill people or they won't bother getting a person who specializes in not getting killed by the same attacks that kill other jobs. With the amount of HP and MP players have in Abyssea, 10/tick refresh (or more) and Cure V and VI, they're just too overpowered for even most NMs to be a real threat.

Dangerous mobs promote the tactics that are effective against dangerous mobs; harmless mobs promote the tactics that are effective against harmless mobs. And harmless mobs are all tankless meleeburn, all the time. Now you want one good blm for procs and azure light, and a whm to take full advantage of unbelievably massive HP pools, but other than that, everything but about half a dozen mobs is about as dangerous to 90s with multiple atmas as Greater Colibri were to 75s. And those half dozen are usually brewed.

It doesn't help that DD atmas are unbelievably broken (30% crit rate? Really? AND bonus crit damage? WTF were they smoking?) while tank atmas are kind of meh. But that could be overcome with Sneak Attack or other tactics if there was any reason to bother trying.

---------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------

P.S. in ancient times (pre-ToAU), exp parties wanted tanks even if they wouldn't literally die without them, because cure sponges meant more downtime waiting for the healers to rest and slower exp overall. But players hated downtime, so SE gave them dark staves and cookies and sanction refresh and FoV refresh and... now they have atmas which are the same thing only much more so. Taking more damage over a period of time is irrelevant in a game where downtime doesn't exist; you're either dead in 5 seconds or you're fine.