new level 85 cap?.... what the hell

[Malacite]

Re: new level 85 cap?.... what the hell

Yeah, except RDM is not just a mage job.

Even though it's clearly labeled Red Mage.

[Raydeus]

Re: new level 85 cap?.... what the hell

Mal, that's sooooo 2006.

[KingOfZeal]

Re: new level 85 cap?.... what the hell

Are you referring to the idea that mages are mages, or are you referring to his sig that my eyes for some reason can't seem to leave?

[Mhurron]

Re: new level 85 cap?.... what the hell

Even though it's clearly labeled Red Mage.

I know I'm totally stoked about that Blue Mage healer I had the other day, and the Blue Mage nuker the time before that. Fuckers need to learn to put that sword away, they're MAGES, it says so right in the job name.

[Karinya]

Re: new level 85 cap?.... what the hell

Yeah, except RDM is not just a mage job.

We can melee just as much as we can cast spells, it is a very balanced job.

Uh... not really. RDM can melee and we can cast spells, but those two aspects of the job are about as balanced as Fox News.

We're the best in the game at enfeebling, pretty good at enhancing, somewhere in the top 5 at nuking (depending on your opinion of blu nukes and whether you count pup and smn pet-based nuking), a good enough healer to keep most parties alive... and maybe, on a good day, average in physical damage dealing. Probably below average, because it seems like half the jobs in the game are physical DD, and tanks outmelee RDMs too.

Have you played any jobs other than RDM? The difference in melee damage output is not something you can really miss in a direct comparison. More like laughing maniacally at how damn fast stuff dies on a real DD job when you're used to nibbling on it as RDM.

Melee on RDM is like tanking on SAM or MNK: it's theoretically possible, there's some abilities of the job that sort of support it, but it's not really up to the level where it performs on par with jobs designed to fill that role. And expecting each new piece of gear that comes out for that job to support its novelty goofing-off role rather than its A game is ridiculous.

(The one exception to the rule that jobs are mostly good at, and get gear for, their designed roles is NIN, which actually has quite a lot of gear designed to serve its unintended extra role, but that's because by the time that gear came out, SE was deliberately giving in to the players who had already redesigned it as a tank. NIN, even before Yasha and other tank-supporting gear, let alone Yonin, was already much better as a tank than RDM is as a melee.)

Best part? Just when there's a good mage weapon or armor set that RDM could use SE magically remembers we aren't just a mage job and doesn't allow us to use it. You know, like it happened with Seers or the high dmg trial staves, etc. etc.

The high dmg trial staves? You do know that RDM has 0 staff skill and therefore dmg is a dead stat on a staff for RDM, right? Staves are only useful for their effects on spells for RDM, not to hit things with (since your acc and atk are guaranteed horrible).

But hey, there's still Zenith, Nashira, Goliard, Yigit, Morrigan, Teal, the spell oriented trial staves... oh wait. RDM gets all of those.

IMO, SCH gets screwed much worse on gear availability than RDM; not only do they not have a JSE, but they really *can't* use about half of the stuff I just listed, for no apparent reason.


P.S. I don't know if Mhurron is joking on purpose, but BLU actually make quite decent healers if they want to, and can nuke at least enough to contribute in Abyssea (although BLUs that put any actual effort into nuking besides grudgingly casting a nuke in full melee gear and then bitching about how ineffective it was are _extremely_ rare). The first step is realizing that your WS kind of suck, and therefore your TP aren't actually all that valuable (certainly not compared to your MP, which is where the job's real power is), and swapping and resting are not the kiss of death they are to ordinary melee jobs.

And BLU gets enough different enfeebling effects (some of them really damn good) to maybe even dispute the claim that RDM are the best in the game at it, too.

[Raydeus]

Re: new level 85 cap?.... what the hell

So just because you don't do the numbers dedicated melee jobs do you simply back away and stop meleeing as a RDM?

I feel sorry for you, but I guess you probably have melee jobs to compensate for it so it's ok.


I've played many jobs, leveled PLD and BRD to 75, got BLM almost to 60, other melee jobs to 50+ etc. etc. but right now I'm focusing on RDM because that's what I enjoy playing.

I like all the posibilities the job has to offer. I play mage when the situation merits it, I play melee when the situation merits it, I play tank when the situation merits it. And RDM AF gives bonus to all those roles. That's what I want to see in RDM armor instead of just mage stats repeating over and over again.

Not very difficult to understand if you ask me.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: new level 85 cap?.... what the hell

I play tank when the situation merits it.

As in, pre-June 2010, unfortunately.

Though, I thanked you because it is a tad ridiculous to expect the numbers of a dedicated DD to come from a RDM. If so, then why play anything else?

Concerning gear, though, Ray, if anything we get too much Magey gear as it is, e.g. our AF3. >.> I was actually stoked about Seer's set simply for the fact that we weren't getting the magey set that time around. (Turns out we didn't get any of those sets, but that's because freaking Thief stole our Enkidu. >.> )

Finally, concerning Red Mage and Blue Mage, they seem to be more similar than either lets on: assuming proper gear and subs, both can make competent healers, and less-than-competent (magical) nukers. BLU has a greater Sword skill plus EX Weapon Skills (not to mention a more-than-decent array of gear to support it . . . ), and RDM has MP up the wazoo now - and it would seem that each job wants what the other has. <.<;

/minddump

[Karinya]

Re: new level 85 cap?.... what the hell

So just because you don't do the numbers dedicated melee jobs do you simply back away and stop meleeing as a RDM?

When the situation calls for it, certainly. I melee against lower-level mobs when it's safe to do so, and not when it's excessively dangerous or a waste of time that could be better spent resting.

Didn't the playerbase already hash all this out when the original elemental staves came out? RDM is not that good at melee and often has better things to do, and this tendency gets stronger and stronger at higher levels. So why would you want melee-oriented empyreal armor for post-75 RDM? You would only be able to use it in non-serious situations, which really doesn't justify the amount of effort it takes to get empyreal.

If I'm going to take on dangerous enemies in a group, my melee capabilities will be a joke compared to the melee jobs present, and if I'm going to take them on solo, then I probably have to stay out of melee range and dot/grav kite or sleep/bind/nuke to stay alive. More melee oriented gear isn't really going to change either of those things (the problems with RDM melee go much deeper than that, starting with low damage 1h weapons and no A skill even with those), so it's just going to go to waste in difficult fights.

To be clear, I'm not opposed to the *existence* of higher level melee gear for RDM; but I think it shouldn't be empyreal. The method and difficulty of obtaining empyreal mean it should be gear for endgame (whatever that means anymore) and HNM situations, and as such, designed for the primary party/alliance roles of each job -- which, for RDM, is clearly not melee.

[Mhurron]

Re: new level 85 cap?.... what the hell

None of that speaks against the request that there be some more decent RDM melee gear, at least on the AF. RDM empyreal is hardly better then the much easier to obtain Teal. Why would I waste my time getting RDM AF3?

So why would you want melee-oriented empyreal armor for post-75 RDM?

Because I'm a post-75 RDM that occasionally solo's and duo's and there is precious little else new.

[ShepardG]

Re: new level 85 cap?.... what the hell

RDM empyreal is hardly better then the much easier to obtain Teal.

Really?

[Mhurron]

Re: new level 85 cap?.... what the hell

Estoqueur's Chappel +2
[Head] All Races
DEF: 31 MP +40 INT +8 MND +8
Magic Accuracy +7 Magic Attack Bonus +7
Enfeebling magic casting time -12%
Set: Augments "Composure"

Teal Chapeau
[Head] All Races
DEF: 22 HP +17 INT +6 MND +6 Enmity -2
Set: Enhances "Fast Cast" effect

2 Mind and 2 INT difference. Set bonus difference either enhances composure or fast cast. Fast Cast on Teal is comparable to RDM AF1 head. Composure augment is 'enhances duration of spells cast on others by 10% on the first two pieces, and an additional 10% on all additional pieces.' 40 mp on AF3 head. MACC is nice, but honestly, MAB on RDM - as useful in a party as melee stats would be, SE seems to think magic bursts still happen.

I'm not spending the time getting AF3 +2 head over teal. I just wear my AF1 head.

---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:34 PM ----------

Estoqueur's Fuseau +2
[Legs] All Races
DEF: 42 MP +65 INT +9 Magic Accuracy +6
"Magic Attack Bonus" +6
Enhances "Refresh" Potency
Set: Augments "Composure"

Teal Slops
[Legs] All Races
DEF: 32 HP +14 INT +5 CHR +5
Magic Accuracy +3
"Magic Atk. Bonus" +3
Set: Enhances "Fast Cast" effect

Again, MACC is nice but AF3 only adds 3 more to both over Teal, a few more points of INT, and MP again. Couldn't find anything on AF3's refresh potency.

I'm not spending the time on getting AF3 legs, I'll stick with my Jet Seraweels.

---------- Post added at 02:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:39 PM ----------

Estoqueur's houseaux +2
[Feet] All Races
DEF: 19 MND +13
Enhancing magic skill +15 Enmity -7
Increases Enhancing Magic effect duration
Set: Augments "Composure"

Teal Pigaches
[Feet] All Races
DEF: 16 HP +8 MND +6 CHR +6 Enmity -4
Set: Enhances "Fast Cast" effect

A bunch more mind, enhancing skill and enhancing magic duration. I'll be honest, this might be worth getting, but it is still not that stellar.

I wouldn't spend the time getting RDM AF3.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: new level 85 cap?.... what the hell

EDIT: Bah, he beat me to the stats.

I don't think Mhurron understated the usefulness of RDM AF3 as much as he overstated the usefulness of Teal.

ADD:

Couldn't find anything on AF3's refresh potency.

Doesn't the wiki claim it's +1 MP/tick for both of our Refresh spells?

[Mhurron]

Re: new level 85 cap?.... what the hell

I don't think Mhurron understated the usefulness of RDM AF3 as much as he overstated the usefulness of Teal.

I'm not over stating the usefulness of Teal, I'm saying given the absolute ease of obtaining Teal, and the giant pita AF3 is, AF3 isn't worth the effort to obtain over Teal. Comparing them, Teal is good enough and the AF3 is hardly better.

Doesn't the wiki claim it's +1 MP/tick for both of our Refresh spells?

I just looked at the +2 pages. +1 mp/tick doesn't make the piece suddenly worth the effort.

[emeraldpearl]

Re: new level 85 cap?.... what the hell

oh wow alot of replies sorry for not responding, was away all week haha. thank you for your responses! (ive clicked the"thanks" boxes for all those who replied to my little complait "

EDIT: also read that its being increased to 99 ... what the hell....

[ShepardG]

Re: new level 85 cap?.... what the hell

It's a different game EP, and, not blowing smoke, it actually brought a new sort of fun to me and the group we play with.

We did dynamis jeuno last night with 16.....it was so f'ing fun!!! had 3 BLMS, 2whms, 1 rdm, 1 thf, 1 cor, 2brd's (one came late) and i was on dnc. after the first 3 statues ...we realized how broke it was to be farming currency at 85 lmao!

the 5-7 DD's would litterly be searching for mobs to hold /solo. The healers could just step back a bit and convert when they ran low. The blms could -ja 3-6 statues at a time. I litterly fucked with the boss solo while the rest of the alliance killed something like 30 mobs and 10 statues. we never wiped and litterly cleared the zone to the boss in about an hour. Nobody was crying about AF because most AF2 pieces are just nice set storage things, and it was all around just really fun and relaxed.