The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Re: Astral Flow exp parties

I'm not arguing the exp may be better for the one or two jobs that are leeching or are the sync, I'm trying to explain that the benefit of the superior exp gain is an illusion. Invariably people use astral burns to level up jobs they can't be bothered to earn exp on the proper way only to then join a merit party on samurai, for example, with an 80 polearm skill. The hours/days you then have to fuck around wailing on EP crabs earning 3-4k an hour tops is exp you could have been earning at a superior rate in a traditional party while gaining skillups anyway.

Not sure if that's entirely true. It doesn't take all that long to skill up combat skills for weapons, especially when it's low, and it's even better with Martial Master (Super Kupower). Think Evasion goes up pretty fast, too.

In this level sync age, everyone needs skill up after gaining a few levels anyway. The huge waste of time that is seeking party has to be accounted for as well.

Either way, you can't really argue that once skills are capped and all a person is looking for is merits or exp buffer, AF parties (when done right) provides superior exp/hour than a WS spam party (when done right). No illusions there.

[Elwynn]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Not sure if that's entirely true. It doesn't take all that long to skill up combat skills for weapons, especially when it's low, and it's even better with Martial Master (Super Kupower). Think Evasion goes up pretty fast, too.

But you still need to fight Even Match or better to cap your skills. So you aren't going to cap at 99 even on current HNMs.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

They've updated the Shards of Abyssea site but there's no real information other than price on it.

Oh, and there's someone wearing that god awful pink armour in one of the pics.

One key point of interest seems to be the fact they're killing mobs in La Theine Plateau. I wonder if the new levelling areas are essentially existing areas in an alternate dimension with higher level mobs in them.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

They've updated the Shards of Abyssea site

Where the heck are you getting "Shards" from?

Anyway, new thread inc - I'm not going to lie, I kind of miss people like Lilith who were super on-the-ball about that.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Where the heck are you getting "Shards" from?

I have no idea.

[Elwynn]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Hmmm...

Furthermore, users must have installed and registered FINAL FANTASY XI, PlayOnline, and the "Rise of the Zilart" and "Wings of the Goddess" expansions in order to play "Vision of Abyssea".

Doesn't MMM require WoTG too? They're probably using the same instancing stuff.

[Zoltar]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Did anyone say if there will be new Dynamis zones?

[Ziero]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

That's 20 seconds longer than it takes to kill a colibri with significantly less chance of death and everyone near the mob losing all their buffs, including food, repeatedly.

Kill too fast and you clear the area and break the chain(it's why Cor roll can be more useful then DD related rolls), so that extra 20 seconds has no importance unless your puller sucks. Also, the one WS a Wyvern can do in the 30 seconds it's alive won't one shot anyone.

Also, complaining about losing food...when compared to fighting Colibri? Really?

Edit: Dispelling wind doesn't even remove food effects, it just removes up to two stat bonuses on players (pro and shell). Nihility Song can remove food effects, but that's only if it's the last effect you have on as it only removes one effect per player.

Point is it's beyond stupid to insinuate that because parties will kill one as a last resort to avoid losing the chain when they run out of birds, they're EXP'ing off of wyverns, or that because they can be killed in 30 seconds a party would do just as well against them as they would against birds.

If two parties set out to EXP and one killed exclusively birds and the other exclusively wyverns, the bird party will consistently do better.

Mamool camp doesn't even have birds, people exp off the Puks and Mamools there and pull the Wyverns for chains. If you're talking exclusives of course an all colibri camp would be ideal, but I never said exclusively kill Wyverns (though people have tried against the Ajattaras in Grau with decent results iirc), I said uncapped CoP zones, including the ones with Wyverns, could be potential 75+ leveling spots.

And again, when talking absolutely bestest exp pts, a fully function Astral Burn will double a completely open, perfect pull Mamool point Colibri party. But we're not debating absolute bestest ever possible situations, we're talking about good, decent EXP options, 10-20k an hour places. Which CoP zones could be turned into, amongst other places with some mob rearranging and re-leveling.

It's a shame what little pink birds did to the game, but then again people have always found that one perfect, ideal camping spot and compared it to the average spots with disdain so this isn't really anything new.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Kill too fast and you clear the area and break the chain(it's why Cor roll can be more useful then DD related rolls), so that extra 20 seconds has no importance unless your puller sucks.

What kind of topsy turvy logic is that? I typically kill colibri in 10 seconds while using Cor Roll and will completely decimate any exp you'll get on skoffin even tossing the odd wivre bridging kill in. You're honestly trying to say that the extra 20 seconds would be wasted anyway if there were mobs still available to be killed?

Also, the one WS a Wyvern can do in the 30 seconds it's alive won't one shot anyone.

Last I counted there were two one shot moves a wyvern possesses and they're both more than capable of dropping a person in 30 seconds.

Also, complaining about losing food...when compared to fighting Colibri? Really?

There's a difference between one person losing food/buffs and every person without 10' of the mob losing food/buffs. I would have thought that'd be fairly obvious.

Edit: Dispelling wind doesn't even remove food effects, it just removes up to two stat bonuses on players (pro and shell). Nihility Song can remove food effects, but that's only if it's the last effect you have on as it only removes one effect per player.

Dispelling Wind removes two beneficial effects including food. In 30 seconds it's more than possible for a wyvern to pop it off twice which means unless your healer is doing shuttle runs back and forth each pull you won't always have Pro/Shell up to absorb the effect.

You also conveniently glossed over the fact Dread Shriek is an absolute cunt of a debuff and when coupled with all the other shit wyverns can toss out it puts a considerable burden on your healer's MP compared to a colibri. Lets also not forget the impact Wind Wall can have on killing speed if you don't have a dispeller in the party.

Look, I appreciate you backed yourself into a corner here trying to argue that wyverns are decent exp mobs but now's the time to graciously walk away.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

What kind of topsy turvy logic is that? I typically kill colibri in 10 seconds while using Cor Roll

Show parser results, please, or else I'm going to think you're making up numbers.

You also conveniently glossed over the fact Dread Shriek is an absolute cunt of a debuff and when coupled with all the other shit wyverns can toss out it puts a considerable burden on your healer's MP compared to a colibri. Lets also not forget the impact Wind Wall can have on killing speed if you don't have a dispeller in the party.

The standard (JP) Jade Sepulcher party options here on Ifrit:
1. RDM/WHM (or WHM), COR/WHM, BRD/NIN, DD x3
2. RDM/WHM (or WHM), BRD/WHM, BRD/NIN, DD x3
3. WHM, RDM/WHM, BRD/NIN, DD x3

Dread Shriek is not much of a problem with two sources of Paralyna. Neither is Dispelling Wind, really, for any of the three setups. Fang Rush is the major pain.

Fang Rush is the big cousin of Pecking Flurry, basically. Then again, the Skoffins are not the chain breakers--the Mamool Ja Lurker is. I give Madrigal for those, and hope the DDs have an Acc set for them. lol.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Show parser results, please, or else I'm going to think you're making up numbers.

I don't run a parser, only Expwatch. The 10 second claim is made not just by myself but many other players, it's not some wild and fantastic exaggeration. Maybe you don't see that killspeed but ask around and you'll find others do.

The standard (JP) Jade Sepulcher party options here on Ifrit:

That's great and all but I wouldn't touch a JP merit party with a shitty stick because quite simply they give subpar exp. I can count on one hand the number of times I've meritted with either a WHM or a BRD/WHM in the last six months. Invariably my parties consist of RDM/WHM, BRD/NIN, COR/WAR, x3 DD. All those extra dispels, erases, and rebuffing put a huge dent in one mages MP.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

I don't run a parser, only Expwatch. The 10 second claim is made not just by myself but many other players, it's not some wild and fantastic exaggeration. Maybe you don't see that killspeed but ask around and you'll find others do.

If it's not measured, it's a guesstimate--you made up the number.

That's great and all but I wouldn't touch a JP merit party with a shitty stick because quite simply they give subpar exp. I can count on one hand the number of times I've meritted with either a WHM or a BRD/WHM in the last six months.

lol. I prefer WHM over RDM when meriting on Colibri. Thanks to Esuna, a party with strong DDs can keep chain on back-to-back Wivre if it runs out of birds.

If you have lots of friends with incredibly well gear/merited jobs, I guess you can always build the better party. However, as I am someone who's been parsing a lot of merit parties, and the majority of them pickup parties--and careful about determining base exp by taking out the effect of exp rings--I can state this with confidence: The average pickup JP merit parties on Ifrit blow away the average pickup NA groups in terms of exp/hour.

Not every NA party is bad, not every JP party is great, YMMV, and etc. all apply.

Invariably my parties consist of RDM/WHM, BRD/NIN, COR/WAR, x3 DD. All those extra dispels, erases, and rebuffing put a huge dent in one mages MP.

*shrug* With only a single cure source, a bit of bad luck with a few Pecking Flurry in a row is already a huge dent. The price of configuring a party to be as offensive as possible is that it has a thin line for recovery.

Higher exp potential--until someone goes down, or the party wipes.

[ShepardG]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

COR/WHM

NO!

....waste of 10% dmg output easily. /war,/nin,/drg, /rng anything blut /whm even on scoffin

My ideal party, and one you rarely see because well most 75 Dnc's would rather campaign...

RDM/WHM
BRD/NIN
COR/DRG (assuming earring) /war otherwise
DNC/NIN
SAM/WAR
SAM/WAR OR WAR/SAM

This has:
15% haste spell from rdm
18-22% Haste from Marchx2
5-10% Haste from samba
Acc/Atk from Rolls
3 Forms of Provoke
2 forms of healing (one instant) as well as 2 forms of -ga Cure's
and 2-3 forms of Defense Down and or Evasion down

If your at birds, you'll probably be killing wivre's
If your at mammols you'll probably be killing everything ^^

This is so funnie too because hell, SE might have gotten a hair up their arse and plan on bringing back the Whm,Blm,brd or rdm, pld, 2 dd partie idea. Who knows. Those were the days for sure ^^

Funnie thing, My LS is going through a great debate internally as to how our schedule is going to run, etc. We stay pretty busy during primetime aswell as camp 4-5 HNMs and with all the new content, and all the experience points that people need to get to 80, convo's like this about merit eficency come up almost daily. I keep trying to tell the sack holders, we USED to be an endgame Linkshell, but the game go about 30 percent longer till players get to "the end".

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

NO!

....waste of 10% dmg output easily. /war,/nin,/drg, /rng anything blut /whm even on scoffin

How many times have you merited in the Jade Sepulcher camp? I've used that camp with both single healer in the back line, and with healer + either BRD/WHM or COR/WHM, and I can tell you the additional /WHM makes a huge difference.

I don't think relying on DNC is a good idea when it comes to Skoffin, based on DNC's position while fighting--in range of AoE.

My ideal party, and one you rarely see because well most 75 Dnc's would rather campaign...

RDM/WHM
BRD/NIN
COR/DRG (assuming earring) /war otherwise
DNC/NIN
SAM/WAR
SAM/WAR OR WAR/SAM

This has:
15% haste spell from rdm
18-22% Haste from Marchx2
5-10% Haste from samba
Acc/Atk from Rolls
3 Forms of Provoke
2 forms of healing (one instant) as well as 2 forms of -ga Cure's
and 2-3 forms of Defense Down and or Evasion down

While you're at it, why not just take out the RDM and add a SMN--can Hastega and use remaining MP to do MORE DAMAGE! Just let the DNC handle all the cures!

Seriously, though, what are the odds that the DNC will be able to get off an Healing Waltz to remove Paralyze while under the (very potent) paralyze effect of Dream Shriek? After he gets his own Paralyze off, the recast is another 15 seconds before he can get another person's paralyze off. (If someone is dying, good luck getting Provoke or Curing Waltz out while paralyzed.)

Also, Radiant Breath is two debuffs at once (silence and slow II)--how fast can a DNC help out with that 15 (very long) second recast on Healing Waltz? Worse is when it hits more than one person. I like DNCs, but this is not the camp for them.

If you want use Skoffin for exp, you want the ability to remove multiple paralyze at once from the back line. The same goes for Silena and Erase.

While the ever unreliable Seigan/Third Eye may or may not absorb Fang Rush or Rushing Drub/Stab/Slash, it is completely useless for Firespit and single target spells. Pretty much every DD should be /NIN here, unless it's a NIN.

By the way, Curaga and Divine Waltz? They suck for us BRDs using the Minstrel Ring; I want to stab the healers every time they cast that while I'm in range.


* * *

But, whatever. Come June, COR/WHM will the be new standard, thanks to Haste. (Maybe. lol.)

When you already have a BRD and a DNC, why bother with a cure-bot/haste-bot RDM when the COR/WHM can do the job? After all, we're not looking to RDM to debuff anything anymore besides Dispel, and a COR can do that!

What about Dia III? Well, so what's so special about it? Pffft. Hi to you, Dia II + Light Shot!

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

If it's not measured, it's a guesstimate--you made up the number.

I'd have hoped by now you'd have learned to count to ten unassisted.

If you have lots of friends with incredibly well gear/merited jobs, I guess you can always build the better party.

I do fortunately and due to the declining parties on Fenrir have pretty much uncontested access to both bird camps. As for the JP comment, all I can say is NA's on Ifrit must truly suck.

*shrug* With only a single cure source, a bit of bad luck with a few Pecking Flurry in a row is already a huge dent. The price of configuring a party to be as offensive as possible is that it has a thin line for recovery.

Higher exp potential--until someone goes down, or the party wipes.

Oh not this same old shit again. If you want subpar exp you take the 100% safe and preferred Japanese option (hi Cor/Whm) and gimp your party. Those of us who see meriting as a chore and who don't completely suck will continue to shred colibri with an optimal setup and increased exp gain.