The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

that's 7 camps just for the popular WS spam style parties in the Aht Urhgan/Aradjiah Continent zones.

Discounting the fact that the rate in some of those parties will be significantly less than 25k/hour, that still only means roughly 42 people can exp simultaneously when they want to. Come June there will be hundreds of people wanting to grind new levels. In a game where the majority of the population is at max level I really do not see how this demand is going to be catered for if it is indeed going to be tied to the addons. As I said earlier, lets not forget just how much additional content the last three provided us.

[ShepardG]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

People who crowd the Greater Colibri camps are stupid; there are plenty of other places to go to.

I completely agree, but I'm still going to crowd the bird camps, because that's the best way to get exp/merits. if there were other camps that yielded over 20k/hr exp/merits, then I'd be all about it. But I have yet to hear or see of any.

Don't get me wrong, if It's me and some friends just capping a thf's buffer, or pld or any job that isn't the standard SAM/RDM/BRD/COR blahblah, I don't care if we get 5k/hr or 40k/hr. However, If i'm specifically out to be as effiecent as possible, i'm going to go to the camp that has the potential to yield the most exp/HR.

---------- Post added at 07:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 AM ----------

Discounting the fact that the rate in some of those parties will be significantly less than 25k/hour, that still only means roughly 42 people can exp simultaneously when they want to. Come June there will be hundreds of people wanting to grind new levels. In a game where the majority of the population is at max level I really do not see how this demand is going to be catered for if it is indeed going to be tied to the addons. As I said earlier, lets not forget just how much additional content the last three provided us.

LEVEL SYNC!!!! East Ronfarue [S] colibri parties GO GO!

[Ziero]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Well, you only have to wait one month to discover whether you'll be eating those words. Personally I don't have the faith in S-E that you obviously do. You just need to look at the clusterfuck that is 75 merit parties now. If 5-6 level 75 parties decide they want to exp simultaneously you can be certain that all of them will end up earning a substandard rate per hour. The game currently can not support more than the aforementioned number of level 75 parties all wanting to grind exp at a reasonable rate. And by that I mean anywhere from 15k/hour upwards although realistically most people are used to anywhere from 25-40k/hour now.

MMM says hi. Easy 20k an hour for people who know what they're doing. At any level.

There's either a fundamental disconnect between what S-E believes the players require or they're artificially restricting experience gain by creating these bottlenecks. While cynical I'd tend to lean towards the latter as they've shown more than once they're fond of using the, "Attempt once per <day/week/month/decade>" mechanic.

Or people are too lazy/stupid to find out things for themselves and hit up different places to Exp. The "fundamental disconnect" isn't so much between SE and the playerbase, it's between those who innovate and those who imitate. Those who can do nothing but copy what others have done before will do nothing more then flood the areas other people have found to be good exp grounds. And because there's so many more people who imitate compared to those who can find their own way, there's far more overcrowding at old, known camps then there is exploring to find new and unique camps. SE can try and add new places all they want (and they have been) but most of the followers will still always stick to the safest, simplest, easiest path.

As for the CoP discussion, personally I find the supposition they'll be used as levelling zones beyond ludicrous. There's a very valid reason there are dozens of zones now that go unused in favour of colibri areas. People don't want to fuck around exp'ing on wyverns, hippogryphs, and emptiness mobs. The playerbase don't want to return to enemies that take forever to kill and have a significant chance of decimating the party. There's not one single capped CoP zone I can seriously see anyone wanting to exp in when the caps are removed.

You do realize people exp on Wyverns and Wivres all the time right? Any VT mob can be easily ripped through, especially horsebirds, who aren't all that dangerous unless they're IT++.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Discounting the fact that the rate in some of those parties will be significantly less than 25k/hour, that still only means roughly 42 people can exp simultaneously when they want to.

Er, earlier you were arguing that you couldn't have faith in SE because it couldn't figure out how to make 6 camps for Lv.75 merit parties, and cited 15k/hr as the threshold. (Not that I've seen 25k/hr party in a while, lol.) Anyway, since I found 9+ camps which should be able to sustain 15k/hr or better (or slightly worse), and if I'm doing the math right, that's 54+ people.

Not that it really matters; in the past few months, every time I get into a merit party, either the Jade Sepulcher (my favorite) camp was open, or one of the Greater Colibri (other NAs' favorite) camps was about 9 out of 10 times. For the rest, upper camp of Tandjana Islet (Mamool Ja) worked just fine for me.

Would be nice to have some more crowding so I'd have an excuse to play with trolls, at this point. Ha!

Come June there will be hundreds of people wanting to grind new levels. In a game where the majority of the population is at max level I really do not see how this demand is going to be catered for if it is indeed going to be tied to the addons. As I said earlier, lets not forget just how much additional content the last three provided us.

Well, Caedarva Mire (Azouph Isle Staging Point) used to be really over crowded shortly after Aht Urgant was introduced, then things calmed down and the merit parties moved out, leaving the place mostly to exp parties. So, there may be some initial crowding, I guess, then things will even out.

Or, it can be more instanced zones, like MMM/Nyzul Isle/Salvage/etc., only with even more instance servers. Who knows?

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Or people are too lazy/stupid to find out things for themselves and hit up different places to Exp. The "fundamental disconnect" isn't so much between SE and the playerbase, it's between those who innovate and those who imitate. Those who can do nothing but copy what others have done before will do nothing more then flood the areas other people have found to be good exp grounds. And because there's so many more people who imitate compared to those who can find their own way, there's far more overcrowding at old, known camps then there is exploring to find new and unique camps. SE can try and add new places all they want (and they have been) but most of the followers will still always stick to the safest, simplest, easiest path.

Okay, that was clearly something you needed to share with us. Now, please list me one single camp that rivals bird parties at around 38, 55, and 75. It has nothing to do with the horrible, little playerbase being all lazy and close-minded and everything to do with the fact they've done all the analysis, tried all the camps, and arrived at the conclusion birds are the optimal target for a balanced party under current conditions.

You do realize people exp on Wyverns and Wivres all the time right? Any VT mob can be easily ripped through, especially horsebirds, who aren't all that dangerous unless they're IT++.

Really? Who are these people because in all my time playing FFXI I've yet to see anyone say, "Hey, let's go exp on wyverns. They're fun and give awesome exp!". The only times I see people touch them is when there are two parties around mamool ja and they're a filler mob, even then it's with great reluctance.

Er, earlier you were arguing that you couldn't have faith in SE because it couldn't figure out how to make 6 camps for Lv.75 merit parties, and cited 15k/hr as the threshold. (Not that I've seen 25k/hr party in a while, lol.) Anyway, since I found 9+ camps which should be able to sustain 15k/hr or better (or slightly worse), and if I'm doing the math right, that's 54+ people.

Thing is you could double that number of camps and it still wouldn't be enough. Setting that discussion aside though, let's go with your 9+ camps. Do you really see S-E introducing that amount of new content as part of an addon with the knowledge of how much additional content the last three addons held combined? I'll be the first to cheer if they do and admit I was wrong but I'm really struggling to believe this of them.

[Ziero]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Okay, that was clearly something you needed to share with us. Now, please list me one single camp that rivals bird parties at around 38, 55, and 75. It has nothing to do with the horrible, little playerbase being all lazy and close-minded and everything to do with the fact they've done all the analysis, tried all the camps, and arrived at the conclusion birds are the optimal target for a balanced party under current conditions.

Well first off, again, MMM. Seeing as now you can buy pre-made set ups, you have everyone in your party take turns buying the Bird Exp set up and voila, your own personal bird camp. While it might not always be Lolibri, all bird mobs in this game are pathetically easy to kill as VTs, including horsebirds. Of course thinking of only bird camps (where other camps, including mamool ja and others give similar exp) severely limits your options right off the bat, it still doesn't rule out the numerous other great camps out there.

p.s. Not even the best bird camp (which requires absolutely perfect conditions, including killing Wivre to keep the chain to see anything close to 30k an hour) can rival the sheer Exp per hour from Astral Burns. That stuff is borderline broken, but SE doesn't seem to care that much since it gives Smns a way to lvl up without needing a traditional party.

Really? Who are these people because in all my time playing FFXI I've yet to see anyone say, "Hey, let's go exp on wyverns. They're fun and give awesome exp!". The only times I see people touch them is when there are two parties around mamool ja and they're a filler mob, even then it's with great reluctance.

"No one exps on Wyverns...except those people who exp on Wyverns. But we'll just ignore them since they don't count!"

Thing is you could double that number of camps and it still wouldn't be enough. Setting that discussion aside though, let's go with your 9+ camps. Do you really see S-E introducing that amount of new content as part of an addon with the knowledge of how much additional content the last three addons held combined? I'll be the first to cheer if they do and admit I was wrong but I'm really struggling to believe this of them.

The exp camps aren't going to come from add-on contents alone, but from updates as well. If you honestly can't see SE boosting the strength/level of mobs in specific areas areas around the world, you're just foolish. Throwing in old model mobs with higher levels is literally one of the simplest things SE could do in an update, to not expect them to do that, especially after they said they were more or less planning on doing that, is ridiculous.

[Romyro]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

"No one exps on Wyverns...except those people who exp on Wyverns. But we'll just ignore them since they don't count!"

Where do people exp on wyverns? The only time I see them in exp parties is when grizzle mentioned it. As a filler at certain camps.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

p.s. Not even the best bird camp (which requires absolutely perfect conditions, including killing Wivre to keep the chain to see anything close to 30k an hour) can rival the sheer Exp per hour from Astral Burns. That stuff is borderline broken, but SE doesn't seem to care that much since it gives Smns a way to lvl up without needing a traditional party.

I pulled 41k/hour in a bird party yesterday, peaked at 46k with a ring charge and dropped to 38k near the end when we were growing bored. Astral burns have a long setup time, are just as reliant on perfect conditions, can only cater to one or two parties maximum and are very prone to being fucked up by other players. On Fenrir there are a bunch of JPs who persistently Ga all pulls in Korroloka during their hours for example. So really, Astral burns aren't as amazing as you make them out to be. Also what most people fail to consider is you might gain a chunk of exp in a short time but then have to spend days skilling up. Time that could have been spent in an exp party earning comparable if not better exp and gaining those skill ups simultaneously.

The exp camps aren't going to come from add-on contents alone, but from updates as well.

Where does it say this? You're guaranteeing shit left, right and centre and there's z(i)ero information to back any of it up.

[Ziero]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Where do people exp on wyverns? The only time I see them in exp parties is when grizzle mentioned it. As a filler at certain camps.

The point is even "big scary Wyverns" explode into a powder of fine red mist when they're hit with a good exp pt. Apparently it's hard to grasp that though.

Where does it say this? You're guaranteeing shit left, right and centre and there's z(i)ero information to back any of it up.

Ohohoho~ Ever so clever.

New camping grounds are scheduled to be added to cater to the anticipated rise in demand for experience parties. Furthermore, the redistribution of monsters in existing areas is also under consideration.

Now this isn't exactly promising 40k+ an hour for everyone, but it does show they full well plan on adding ways to level past 75 without the need for the add-ons.

[Armando]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

The point is even "big scary Wyverns" explode into a powder of fine red mist when they're hit with a good exp pt. Apparently it's hard to grasp that though.

They're also far more damaging than any bird while they're alive.

[Mhurron]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Now this isn't exactly promising 40k+ an hour for everyone, but it does show they full well plan on adding ways to level past 75 without the need for the add-ons.

I'm sure SE has considered many things in the past that never saw the light of day. It is hardly as written in stone as you make it out to be. Considering is a far cry from 'full well plan.'

[Ziero]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

So you really think that the only place you'll be able to get exp past 75 will be Abyssea? SE can do some very dumb things, but not even they are that stupid.

They're also far more damaging than any bird while they're alive.

Still doesn't stop people from ripping them apart in 30 seconds.

[Zoltar]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Grizzlebeard, the best SMN Astral Flow Burn > The best Bird camp meripo.

It's not uncommon to do 50-60k xp/hour with Astral Flow Burns. Again, if you know what you're doing and have the best situations, who's to say what is best, right?

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Still doesn't stop people from ripping them apart in 30 seconds.

That's 20 seconds longer than it takes to kill a colibri with significantly less chance of death and everyone near the mob losing all their buffs, including food, repeatedly.

Grizzlebeard, the best SMN Astral Flow Burn > The best Bird camp meripo.

It's not uncommon to do 50-60k xp/hour with Astral Flow Burns. Again, if you know what you're doing and have the best situations, who's to say what is best, right?

I'm not arguing the exp may be better for the one or two jobs that are leeching or are the sync, I'm trying to explain that the benefit of the superior exp gain is an illusion. Invariably people use astral burns to level up jobs they can't be bothered to earn exp on the proper way only to then join a merit party on samurai, for example, with an 80 polearm skill. The hours/days you then have to fuck around wailing on EP crabs earning 3-4k an hour tops is exp you could have been earning at a superior rate in a traditional party while gaining skillups anyway.

[Armando]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Still doesn't stop people from ripping them apart in 30 seconds.

Point is it's beyond stupid to insinuate that because parties will kill one as a last resort to avoid losing the chain when they run out of birds, they're EXP'ing off of wyverns, or that because they can be killed in 30 seconds a party would do just as well against them as they would against birds.

If two parties set out to EXP and one killed exclusively birds and the other exclusively wyverns, the bird party will consistently do better.