3 new expansions, Visions, Scars and Heroes of Abyssea

[Karinya]

Re: 3 new expansions, Visions, Scars and Heroes of Abyssea

my group had to take on 5 NM Chariots WTF 3 of which were all close together in 1 tiny room and there was no avoiding a link. Or getting a"kill all enemies" floor only to find out the last mob is a freaking Dahak.

I'm pretty sure I've won runs with either of those situations in them. Of course, it also depends on the other floors in the run; if you had both of those in the *same* run, or one of those and a couple floors of amorphs, then wind up with Cerb spamming stoneskin until time runs out, then that kind of sucks.

Anyway, the point is that different runs are different, so obviously some are going to suck more than others. If you make it so that the worst possible combination is still winnable by reasonably skilled players, then the *average* combination is going to be pretty easy. If the average combination is winnable but takes some effort/coordination/etc., then above average combinations are going to be out of some parties' reach (or maybe even all, but I bet we could break through Cerb's stoneskin faster than he could reapply it if we all had relics, for example).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 3 new expansions, Visions, Scars and Heroes of Abyssea

Flow of Nyzul:

Arrive to a floor
Check objective
Complain for two minutes about objective
Complete objective or die.
Move to next floor.

(repeat)

[Malacite]

Re: 3 new expansions, Visions, Scars and Heroes of Abyssea

I was looking at the site again, and apparently it will even be possible to solo Abyssia >_>

[Nuriko]

Re: 3 new expansions, Visions, Scars and Heroes of Abyssea

I never said the randomness was bad; far from it, it's what makes Nyzul so interesting. I just said it doesn't make for much of a legitimate challenge when one floor can be as easy as a free clear or assrape you like the time my group had to take on 5 NM Chariots WTF 3 of which were all close together in 1 tiny room and there was no avoiding a link. Or getting a"kill all enemies" floor only to find out the last mob is a freaking Dahak.

I remember getting a floor like that, 3 chariots stacked on top of each other. This was before I'd levelled SCH for subjob use, so I was WHM/SMN. Summon Carby, set it on one of the chariots, and stand back ... there's your clean pull. Now, that "kill all" floor where Cassie showed up, that wasn't so fun...

And to Karinya, I know what you mean about PUG idiots. I was on one run where we took 10 minutes on a REGISTER lamp! Everybody was told to click. Everybody was told this at least a dozen times. Everybody was told to click AGAIN, to be sure they didn't just think they had. I think we cleared 5 floors despite this, and wouldn't you know it, instead of exiting we go on to a 6th floor! 2-3 of us just used fireflies at that point...

[Ziero]

Re: 3 new expansions, Visions, Scars and Heroes of Abyssea

When I use the word random in regards to Nyzul, this is what I mean. This you can't plan for.

Except you can. You know that whatever floor you're going to will be one of XX number of situations and you will have a party set up to deal with it. Hell, the best Nyzul "plan" you can have is to make sure you have a Blu, a Whm and a Sam. There ya go, you've planned for everything.

The fact that bad luck will inevitably bite you in the ass is part of Nyzul's balance and design. If you luck weren't a factor for Nyzul and a balanced team of sane people could reliably win every time, you can bet your ass that the grind would be longer and the rewards per win less generous. In the long run it's all the same.

How can the rewards be "less generous" then nothing? That armor has a craptastic drop rate and much of it isn't all that good either. The only real "reward" is the new WS, which many of which have questionable use anyway.

This statement makes no sense.

There's no single monster in there that can't be beaten but the random combination of a few individually challenging mobs ends up making an unbeatable encounter.

Nyzul, as an event, is not difficult. Because getting those random hell floors every now and then will not stop you from eventually just waltzing up the floors when they end up being literal free floors. When an event can be easily beaten by a group of 6 casual, AH geared players, it's not something I consider difficult. Saying Nyzul is hard is like saying the Orichalcum Survey assault mission is hard, because the result is entirely luck based.

[Neverslip]

Re: 3 new expansions, Visions, Scars and Heroes of Abyssea

The hardest part of Nyzul Isle for me so far has been finding WG groups that don't include this in the shout:

"A:X 2/6 DD {please}"

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 3 new expansions, Visions, Scars and Heroes of Abyssea

Except you can. You know that whatever floor you're going to will be one of XX number of situations and you will have a party set up to deal with it. Hell, the best Nyzul "plan" you can have is to make sure you have a Blu, a Whm and a Sam. There ya go, you've planned for everything.

Except Pathos.

SAM/DNC is not going to save you if White Magic Pathos happens on a Boss floor and all you have left for healing is a BLU that didn't set Healing/defensive spells. Setting new spells you cost you a few minutes, too. You have a PLD/NIN and his effectiveness his halved under that pathos.

Even if all the melees came /DNC you're still boned because now you're losing damage output to keep everyone alive. That BLU is going to need to make some preparations for being a healer for there even to be a hope of winning. Than means bringing an MP build.

And if his Blue Magic or Ninjutsu Pathos, that creates other problems.

Its not just random floors with random objectives, but random penalties as well.

[Elwynn]

Re: 3 new expansions, Visions, Scars and Heroes of Abyssea

Nyzul, as an event, is not difficult. Because getting those random hell floors every now and then will not stop you from eventually just waltzing up the floors when they end up being literal free floors. When an event can be easily beaten by a group of 6 casual, AH geared players, it's not something I consider difficult.

Nyzul as an event may not be difficult, but finding a party to get you through the lower numbered floors when everyone (even in your linkshell) wants to just farm the boss floors is a pain in the ass. Nobody wants to do anything but 20, 40, 60, 80, 100. Yes, I know, "start your own"... except if you're a Nyzul-noob, you're not going to know a lot of what you need. Or "form a static", except there's so much other crap to do (and now everyone wanting to get all their subs to 49) that makes it harder to get people to commit to just Nyzul. Especially if they're in Dynamis or other EGLSes. And it doesn't make things any easier that apparently (from what I've heard), the lowest floors are harder than usual, and you get crap floors more often. If true, that's just stupidity on the part of SE.

That's a problem I've seen in general: "Hey, I'm already here, now I'm too busy farming here for uber gear to help anyone else get here too." It's the same as people avoiding city Dynamis (when given a chance) because it doesn't drop the gear they want. The declining and top-heavy population just makes this worse. Maybe things will get more interesting next week when SylFairy merges.

And then there's the stuff that people get cleared, go to for a week or three, then never go back. Nobody I know does MMM any more, though I do see JPs hanging around just as midnight ticks over. When I finally got sky, the "core" of my linkshell had just gotten Sea and were bored with Sky already. And a week later I haven't even seen much of them going to Sea. Fortunately we've still got people on lower CoP missions than me. Three alone are on Darkness Named, and we've already had one "wipe night" to try to get them cleared.

[Emmanuell]

Re: 3 new expansions, Visions, Scars and Heroes of Abyssea

FFXI doesn't want to lose everyone to FFXIV but I really do not see how they will keep this place alive. I love FFXI but the interface is old and the graphics. So, only time will tell!