Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

Isn't Sekkanoki lvl 60? Or is the Wiki just horribly out of date.

SE said they're considering changing the level that its earned at.

I fully expect SE to address concerns by implementing a charge system to Sekkanoki, not unlike what SCH and COR have with Strategem and Quick Draw.

Oh, QD, there's another one. Requires a gun. That'll be fairly easy to keep COR exclusive, you'd have to use COR to sub it and then need a gun with Bullets to use it.

Which means RNG/COR, NIN/COR, and THF/COR.

Could be nifty for RNG main when using a gun, though I think SAM would still be better. For NIN and THF its questionable. Might be a dandy replacement for a soloing NIN either low on or just plain doesn't use shurikens They could just Light Shot whenever they need to put up shadows badly and they have decent amount of AGI to push into QD accuracy. THF it would mean replacing crossbow, which might actually be detrimental to their EXP and solo performance.

NIN finally would get an opportunity to have the full line Ninjutsu or at least a few more Ni spells and a spread of San spells.

[Coinspinner]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

They should have done this earlier; done it gradually, so that people could have slowly sipped the Koolaid until they liked it.

Kinda sucks for all the old diehards who toiled for years to fill their 80-slot bag with every potentially useful bit of equipment and can now wave it bye-bye. End game equipment and limit grind always seemed awful to me. Your character's "growth" slowed to a crawl compared to the gains you got from leveling, and eventually devolved into getting tiny boosts to specific abilities, rather than overall boosts or things noticeable without a parser/microscope.

I quit right after CoP came out, still not level 75 at the time, and came back right when WotG came out. Having to sort out 3 1/4 expansions worth of content, most of it catering to level 75 characters, was frustrating. As was having to deal an elitist playerbase that 4 years worth of merits and gear on me and the elevated expectations that came with 'em.

If their aim was to help new or returning players, then obsoleting the morass that is the current endgame would probably be a good move. It was hard to get people to focus on anything since their interests were so scattered. It would also erase the advantage of having spent 5 years worth of free time toiling for slight upgrades.

I just don't see the point though, given that FF14 is coming and that their gear losing it's ePeen bonus will displease most of the existing players. Furthermore, I felt no desire to grind more when I hit 75. If anything this is a turnoff that makes me less likely to return. BLM gets Meteor, eh? Whatever. To get me, personally, to care they'd have to reduce the exp needed to gain levels, or implement some leveling method better and more fun than what they've got now.

~~~~~~~

Funny how many people are talking about how this will ruin game balance when it's not balanced now. Refresh is already a bit weak, I expect stronger refresh effects in the future. It may not even work with Accession.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

If you think the EXP curve is bad now, you must have forgotten the original grind to 75 was extremely steep.

Not to mention how quickly 54 to 75 came with pink birds.

I could see SE making a 25% cut on existing levels 50-75, but really, people would complain no matter what the TNLs are.

I mean, people cry over having to get 500 EXP back, something they could get back in almost a minute today

You think a BST is going to stop by and comfort you when you scratch your knee? BSTs get disemboweled on a regular basis and no one is there to raise them more often than not. For BST, getting to 66 is reason enough to sub WHM and never look back.

[Takelli]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

If you think the EXP curve is bad now, you must have forgotten the original grind to 75 was extremely steep.

Not to mention how quickly 54 to 75 came with pink birds.

I could see SE making a 25% cut on existing levels 50-75, but really, people would complain no matter what the TNLs are.

Well... Grinding is a pain. A game shouldn't reward time spent, it should reward skill.

But FFXI rewards time spent in the game. If you sit there and grind for 3 hours a day, you wont level too fast. But if you spend 5-7 hours a day grinding, you'll hit 75 faster than the one only grinding 3 hours.

But, they should make it so that you can gain 2-3 levels a day, rather than just one every other day, or something like that. Just make exp come a little bit faster, just no more birds, please! Or at least make it more fun to grind, than just hit the auto attack, use a Ja, and WS every so many seconds. Or cure/haste.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

Well... Grinding is a pain. A game shouldn't reward time spent, it should reward skill.

There's that abused word again, "skill." Replace it with knowledge and I'll agree with you. There can be no skill without knowledge.

RPGs should reward you with growth. Nothing more, nothing less. If they can't make growth rewarding, they've failed. Endgame is proof of that failure, the EXP grind is not proof of this. You gain levels and you see returns on all subjob investments you've made.

But FFXI rewards time spent in the game. If you sit there and grind for 3 hours a day, you wont level too fast. But if you spend 5-7 hours a day grinding, you'll hit 75 faster than the one only grinding 3 hours.

This is like saying, "That guy without a job has it better than me."

Think about that for a second. Who really has it better?

But, they should make it so that you can gain 2-3 levels a day, rather than just one every other day, or something like that. Just make exp come a little bit faster, just no more birds, please! Or at least make it more fun to grind, than just hit the auto attack, use a Ja, and WS every so many seconds. Or cure/haste.

I fully expect that birds will drop off the radar for a while, but I wouldn't be surprised to see people use level sync to stick with them til 80.

MJSP will be like Qufim 2.0.

[Mezlo]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

This is like saying, "That guy without a job has it better than me."

Think about that for a second. Who really has it better?

If we are talking about Conan O'Brien, I'd say Conan.

[Takelli]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

There's that abused word again, "skill." Replace it with knowledge and I'll agree with you. There can be no skill without knowledge.

RPGs should reward you with growth. Nothing more, nothing less. If they can't make growth rewarding, they've failed. Endgame is proof of that failure, the EXP grind is not proof of this. You gain levels and you see returns on all subjob investments you've made.



This is like saying, "That guy without a job has it better than me."

Think about that for a second. Who really has it better?



I fully expect that birds will drop off the radar for a while, but I wouldn't be surprised to see people use level sync to stick with them til 80.

MJSP will be like Qufim 2.0.

I agree with you, I was just making a point at how FFXI rewards how much time you invest in the game, nothing more. Thats all I was saying.

As for the Birds... I was hoping the level sync was done with... I am so god-damned sick, and tired of birds! They are annoying as hell with their Pecking Flurry, and the Feath Tickle move when you have hate. Yet, they are the weakest mob in game, and everyone wants to kill them.

I thought I was done with level syncing when I hit 75 on my sam.. I guess not... Maybe people will just do a "Merit party" set up from 75-99, with no true tank, and so on.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

If we are talking about Conan O'Brien, I'd say Conan.

OK, you got me on that one.

Otherwise, my point still stands.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

Yeah, I have no plans to go back, but I'm in the "Fuck that, I really thought I was done with the xp grind" camp. I didn't enjoy grinding, I enjoyed doing endgame events. I would have loved new endgame events but not with the added necessity of spending more time grinding - on each of my jobs, too, since all of them were useful (okay, not SMN, except for lowman sea farming). There were various reasons behind me quitting, but it wasn't entirely because I was bored with the game. Hell, there were still things I did actually want to accomplish, but several other things just kind of sucked my desire to play away.

I can say with absolute certainty, though, that after having leveled four jobs to 75, capping XP and merits on all of them, I was sick and fucking tired of grinding. I'd level some things on occasion for the hell of it, but even leveling WAR - which I did with some regularity - was more of a chore than something I enjoyed. I wanted it done. I was sick of xping. I enjoyed the grind on RDM, and a little bit on WHM, but I was sick of it by the time I got through with BLM. I wanted to finish my WAR, but I didn't want to be bothered to fucking level it. I just wanted to play the damn job. Merit whore it a bit. Pimp it out. Play it at events. But I was hung up on leveling, something that I never was able to bring myself to finish because I was sick to death of the grind.

The game was fun as hell. When I was camping HNMs and running around the damn globe killing shit, that was fun. I would have loved more of that. If it weren't for the fact that SMN burning leaves you with gimped to shit skills, I would have burned all my jobs to 75. But then you have to go damn skill up. Moar grind. Grinding was taking time away from the things I actually wanted to do, like Salvage or Assault or Nyzul or hell, even low manning some Sky NMs. The thought of grinding another 24 levels on 3 jobs - possibly 4, and then if I were to ever decide to finish my WAR - well, it makes me kind of nauseous, to be honest.

I wouldn't have minded a slight level cap increase. I could have handled a jump to 80. That sounds fine, and you'll probably be able to reasonably do shit with your 75 jobs even in level 80 events. (Can easily take 70+ into most Dynamis zones, for example) So it wouldn't be such a big deal if you didn't quite get all of your jobs leveled right away. And yes, I know they're upping it in phases. But still. 24 levels - each steadily increasing in xp needed from 44k - is still a hell of a lot of fucking grind. And for people who were very, very happy to be done with the grind, I can see where this would be a huge turn-off. I was so done grinding if I could help it. If I hadn't quit already, this would have definitely driven me to quit.

[DakAttack]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

Leveling was the most fun, for me. Dynamis was so boring. Camping NMs was so boring. I wanted to do something with results. Waiting around for a monster you might not claim for drops that might not drop and a chance to lot and not win them if they did drop... not for me.

[hexx]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

I'm the complete opposite. I was actually preparing my farewell speech to the Limbus shell that I run, as well as the Sky and Einherjar shells I co-lead. Now, I want to stay and see this game through till the bitter (or happy?) end. More grinding? {Yes, please}! New zones? {Yes, please}! Bigger, meaner, nastier mobs? {Yes, please}! New endgame content that requires less people? {Yes, please}! Burning out on endgame is what is causing a lot of players to quit this game. Honestly, there is nothing much left to explore as far as endgame goes. HNM is extremely broken with botting LS's getting 90% of the HNMs, Salvage is flat out stupid since the cost required to upgrade gear is insane. Only other endgame that doesn't feel ridiculous is Limbus, Sky, and Einherjar (to some degree, Dyna) because it can be easily spread out so it doesn't consume a lot of time, and with the right jobs, some zones/NMs can be solo'd or duoed. These coming updates are what FFXI was drastically in need of to inject new life into the game, even if it's for another year or a few months. You can't blame SE, a COMPANY, of wanting to milk all they can out of their cash cow, because at the end of it all, they are in this to make money.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

And why don't WHM just level SCH? And THF WAR? WTF is all this whinging about, you can just stop leveling the job you want to and level one you don't.

It may not be mutual, but Heaven help me I love you, Mhurron.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

Leveling was the most fun, for me. Dynamis was so boring. Camping NMs was so boring. I wanted to do something with results. Waiting around for a monster you might not claim for drops that might not drop and a chance to lot and not win them if they did drop... not for me.

I've been on both sides of endgame.

Endgame is fun when you have influence, when you have a say in matters and your opinion is respected, valued. In other words, its more fun when you're an officer or a long-time member.

I worked damn hard for my Titan LS and I'll honestly say this - I only ever got the respect of the PLDs and BLMs for it outside of the other officers and leaders. I attended to morale, helped people buffer their levels and merit and led missions I didn't need at all just to make sure everyone.

I even let other CORs and RNGs have their go first on bidding some sky gear, I looked out for needs.

But that one day I had no competion on lot and I got two things from two Seiryu fights we did, man, I was dubbed a lootwhore. I mean, what a monster I am, making sure other RNGs and CORs got their needs met before claiming my own.

So there's that side of endgame. You can bust and bust your ass and someone will still raise the knife to fucking stab you in the back, even when you've given them every opportunity to shine, gain progress and points.

Then there's all this stopping and starting over again. One shell falls apart, you join another and it falls apart. Then you join an EGLS and they pull the "I am thy Linkshell and thou shalt not have any other linkshell before me" crap. So now I have to give up a social LS because of bullshit paranoia and nonsensical politics.

Apparently if I want to talk to friends, but not do something on endgame that day, my option is not playing something offline and talking to said friends on Skype. This is totally productive toward FFXI, ain't it?

Oh and some leaders aren't above pulling out that dagger to stab you with. Oh, that BRD is probably pretending to be offline today, he could totally log on.

There are some sick and twisted people at endgame, I had to one deal with another officer as an officer and it was draining. She came in and said that such and such event was more important that spending the expected amount of time at your real job, that in order to succeed in the game RL sacrifices must be made.

This nutty girl was driving people away from the LS. Alienating them. Sickly hardcore into the game at the expense of her real life. I tried to have a nice calm talk with her and she responded with threats.

This is not pressure I was putting on her, this is not pressure SE was putting on her, this was just the deep, sick and seeded need to be the success she was not in real life. She had bought into the endgame mentality more excessively than anyone I had ever met. And as much as I wanted to feel sorry for her and help that was impossible.

So I had to take drastic measures. She already dubbed me a monster, so who am I to disappoint? She had a really annoying, self-serving and dickish friend. He only ever showed up or helped with things if he got something out of it on the spot. Never helped out of a genuine desire to help others.

So I kicked him. No one liked him anyway.

He raged, she raged. She repearled and I kicked him again. I knew this was just going to be shit thrown in the leader's lap upon return, but had I done nothing, both I and all the other sacks knew he would just go soft on her like he always did. I had to expose her craziness by pushing her out. In that context, he had to approach her differently, realize there was a bigger problem and ask her to leave.

I didn't get any fun out of it. It was stressful. Why should a game be like this? The design of the game does not perpetuate this kind of behavior and it would be ludicrous to say that it does. No, that's just a very real addiction problem and the setting she was in was not helping. I'm just on the other side of the computer, I have to look out for my own from there and had to make a hard decision.

It might not have been the best course of action, but I got a job to do and bills to pay. I can't put ranger on my fucking job resume and expect that to mean anything. The fact that I have to submit a resume to be part of a group in a video game is fucking nuts.

To watch the old endgame die? Shit man, BURN BABY BURN. I'll stand on its smoldering ruin and cackle like Kefka the day it comes.

[DakAttack]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

I've been on both sides of endgame.

Endgame is fun when you have influence, when you have a say in matters and your opinion is respected, valued. In other words, its more fun when you're an officer or a long-time member.

I worked damn hard for my Titan LS and I'll honestly say this - I only ever got the respect of the PLDs and BLMs for it outside of the other officers and leaders. I attended to morale, helped people buffer their levels and merit and led missions I didn't need at all just to make sure everyone.

I even let other CORs and RNGs have their go first on bidding some sky gear, I looked out for needs.

But that one day I had no competion on lot and I got two things from two Seiryu fights we did, man, I was dubbed a lootwhore. I mean, what a monster I am, making sure other RNGs and CORs got their needs met before claiming my own.

So there's that side of endgame. You can bust and bust your ass and someone will still raise the knife to fucking stab you in the back, even when you've given them every opportunity to shine, gain progress and points.

Then there's all this stopping and starting over again. One shell falls apart, you join another and it falls apart. Then you join an EGLS and they pull the "I am thy Linkshell and thou shalt not have any other linkshell before me" crap. So now I have to give up a social LS because of bullshit paranoia and nonsensical politics.

Apparently if I want to talk to friends, but not do something on endgame that day, my option is not playing something offline and talking to said friends on Skype. This is totally productive toward FFXI, ain't it?

Oh and some leaders aren't above pulling out that dagger to stab you with. Oh, that BRD is probably pretending to be offline today, he could totally log on.

There are some sick and twisted people at endgame, I had to one deal with another officer as an officer and it was draining. She came in and said that such and such event was more important that spending the expected amount of time at your real job, that in order to succeed in the game RL sacrifices must be made.

This nutty girl was driving people away from the LS. Alienating them. Sickly hardcore into the game at the expense of her real life. I tried to have a nice calm talk with her and she responded with threats.

This is not pressure I was putting on her, this is not pressure SE was putting on her, this was just the deep, sick and seeded need to be the success she was not in real life. She had bought into the endgame mentality more excessively than anyone I had ever met. And as much as I wanted to feel sorry for her and help that was impossible.

So I had to take drastic measures. She already dubbed me a monster, so who am I to disappoint? She had a really annoying, self-serving and dickish friend. He only ever showed up or helped with things if he got something out of it on the spot. Never helped out of a genuine desire to help others.

So I kicked him. No one liked him anyway.

He raged, she raged. She repearled and I kicked him again. I knew this was just going to be shit thrown in the leader's lap upon return, but had I done nothing, both I and all the other sacks knew he would just go soft on her like he always did. I had to expose her craziness by pushing her out. In that context, he had to approach her differently, realize there was a bigger problem and ask her to leave.

I didn't get any fun out of it. It was stressful. Why should a game be like this? The design of the game does not perpetuate this kind of behavior and it would be ludicrous to say that it does. No, that's just a very real addiction problem and the setting she was in was not helping. I'm just on the other side of the computer, I have to look out for my own from there and had to make a hard decision.

It might not have been the best course of action, but I got a job to do and bills to pay. I can't put ranger on my fucking job resume and expect that to mean anything. The fact that I have to submit a resume to be part of a group in a video game is fucking nuts.

To watch the old endgame die? Shit man, BURN BABY BURN. I'll stand on its smoldering ruin and cackle like Kefka the day it comes.

I never had any problems like that, but at the same time I didn't spend much time involved in those events. The Dynamis shell I was in was free-lot. I don't remember the Sky shell's rule on apportioning drops, but they paid out cold hard gil for camping/working. I never got to Sea, and never got into ToAU content.

On the other hand, a smooth running party was delightful. Me doing my job, everybody else doing theirs. A little chit chat here and there. It felt good.

[hexx]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

Wow BBQ, you really been through some hell. Too bad you never were on my server, I'd have joined in with ya on fuckin with that bitch! That's also the reason why I make it a point to run LS's instead of joining one that already has had people building up points forever and a day.