Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

[Takelli]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

No, I mean the way Square Enix is actually capable of.



Easy way to make any job popular; give bonus EXP to party members for having that job around, and allow the person playing the job to accrue bonus EXP on some other job. It's patchwork, but this is SE.

Then... that would make them wanted for just the extra EXP, not because it is a "real" asset to the party.

[Malacite]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

FFXI: Heroes of Socialism

You mean Communism, there's a big difference between the two but otherwise still a funny joke

You only have to beat Matt once for all of the jobs on ONE character. If you have a seperate mule account that you get to 75, then you'd have to beat Matt with that one too.

Or if you want his hat, which I'm ever so close to now ><

---------- Post added at 01:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 AM ----------

I find it discomforting that they really have no idea what they're doing with Red Mage.

Well they've confirmed more enfeebling magic, and Refresh II is pretty much a given so idk what else you want.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

...back here in not-insane-land, what do people think of incentivizing unpopular jobs?

Define "unpopular." There are jobs that are popular to invite, but they're the same jobs people are reluctant to play for varying reasons.

BRD and COR are popular, but no one wants to be the BRD because its the most dehumanizing experience in the game. There are relatively few faults to BRD's job design, though. Its quite powerful. In endgame, though, the job does become someone one-note in particular situations, which doesn't make the job terribly fun.

But its less fun that you're barked at like a dog and called "BRD" rather than your name.

People don't want to level or play COR properly for the same reasons people don't want to play RNG - too cost prohibitive. This is why there are so many terrible CORs - they try to get by on the cheap, buy the bare minimum rolls needed and do minimal work on proper subjobs.

BST, BLM and PUP are not popular invites, but they're also jobs that never seem short on gil. That's the flipside to being expected to solo. Since you're expected to solo, you're not as pressured to update gear to keep leveling up and you're keeping all the loot you take in. And you can afford to pick lucrative targets for EXP, drops, beastmen seals and kindred seals..

So while you can have a disadvantage in invites, you still have an advantage elsewhere

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

no one wants to be the BRD because its the most dehumanizing experience in the game.

That's a huge exaggeration. For example, I like playing BRD--not all the time, since I like to use all my jobs--but I do miss it when it's put away for too long. My sister is the same, bouncing between RDM, WHM, and BRD as needed.

But its less fun that you're barked at like a dog and called "BRD" rather than your name.

In JP parties, I'm always ◀Bard▶ さん (actually, 詩さん, but 詩 is just abbreviation for Bard) --and that's perfectly fine, because it's the cultural norm: Warriors, Red Mage, etc. are all referred to by job even while in party.

In NA parties, though, very rare. Never in any LS event, of course.

To be honest, I wouldn't really be offended to be referred as 'BRD' when I'm on Bard even in NA groups. I mean, it fits, right? What's the big deal?

[Karinya]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

You mean Communism, there's a big difference between the two but otherwise still a funny joke

And Stalin wasn't really either, he was a dictator who lied about doing things for the workers but didn't give a damn about them. But let's not get off topic into a political thread :D


Anyway, that was a dumb suggestion, but the problem of too many people only wanting to play the jobs that hit things is real, and has occurred in (AFAIK) every MMO that has ever existed. (Especially since players who *do* mostly play tanks, healers, or support may want to also play DDs sometimes, but the reverse is hardly ever true.) WoW tried to solve the problem by making everyone a DD or hybrid-DD, but then has it anyway with too many people playing the pure-DD classes that aren't good for anything else (so that they won't be forced into non-DD roles again and again, which is how the hybrids end up most of the time they're not soloing).

Ultimately, it's not a problem with the game, it's a problem with the players, and I think the only solution is to let the excess DDs get bored of being excess until some of them decide to contribute what parties actually need. (Except in organized groups, where the leaders have to make players bring a useful balance of jobs and not all DDs all the time, because you can't just leave half your LS seeking in whitegate.)

It's particularly bad in FFXI because so many people have overly narrow mindsets about tanking -- they'll accept a dozen jobs as DDs but only two as tanks. SE can talk about making more jobs able to tank, and even do it, but if the players won't accept BLU or WAR or DNC and just keep looking for a PLD or NIN to log on, then it doesn't solve the problem.

And if SE does what many players want and brings back exp on difficult mobs, players will probably retreat even further into the 2003 ideal of the perfect party and which jobs can fill which roles in it (outside of the level ranges where you can easily abuse ToAU gimpy mobs).

[Feba]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

You mean Communism,

Watch the names.

Define "unpopular."

I'd rather not.

Then... that would make them wanted for just the extra EXP, not because it is a "real" asset to the party.

Yes, pretty much.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

That's a huge exaggeration. For example, I like playing BRD--not all the time, since I like to use all my jobs--but I do miss it when it's put away for too long. My sister is the same, bouncing between RDM, WHM, and BRD as needed.

Disagreeing just means you're an exception. You're a support player, of course you're going to say this. If people liked being BRDs so much, they'd use them for more than just getting easy merits and then hiding them for the rest of their FFXI careers.

The support-minded player is the minority. I'm only half-and-half. If I wanted to be full support, I'd be all over RDM and BRD again. I grew to hate them because they felt more like needed tools than desired as players.

In JP parties, I'm always ◀Bard▶ さん (actually, 詩さん, but 詩 is just abbreviation for Bard) --and that's perfectly fine, because it's the cultural norm: Warriors, Red Mage, etc. are all referred to by job even while in party.

JP parties I understand it. They're not all fluent in English, but I team I'm supposed to be part of, shit, use a nickname at least. And BRD is really the only way some JPs will take an NA at all. I learned that long ago when I played it.

But if I'm part of a guild, you call me by my name and I respond, assign me a designation and I fucking ignore you. I joined a linkshell, not The Borg.



If you want to treat someone like a tool, then keep calling them by their job instead of their names. Its a great way to show you're not keen on really getting to know those who joined your group. It lets them know even more you're there for you and not for the betterment of the group.

I don't walk up to a police officer and keep calling him a "Cop," I at least address him as "sir."
----------------------------

As for the Stalin thing, I googled "Heroes of Socialism" and Stalin was the first relevant option to go with. There were lots of Obama pictures ahead of him. I chose Stalin.

Socialism is the mentality that everything should be even at the expense of those that are successful, it dovetails neatly into communism, but its not exactly the same thing. Socialism turns everyone into a number and allocates resources based on who the the government thinks is more important. That's why socialism is a terrible system.

Communism is taking it a step further. Government instead decides your role in society based off your talents rather than letting the individual decide what is right for themselves. The second the government finds someone better, you lose your prestige and get tucked away and some neat little corner if they can afford to give you at least that much.

If SE forces you to be a particular job in order to maintain fairness and balance, that's a socialist approach. Your role and value is based on the needs of the populace.

A communist system would have SE deciding my role based on which role I played the best by level 30 and then locking me into that role for my entire career.

A capitalist system - which is what we have - allows the player to compete and thrive based of what they determine their own talents to be, in addition to facing supply/demand for said talent. The populace and SE do not decide his role and talents for him. If they're not talented and fail to gain recognition, then they don't succeed. You re-evaluate and try to find where you can succeed and what your talents really are.

None of them are perfect systems, but I know which one offers the most freedom. I'll pick my roles, thanks.

[Truece]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

Then... that would make them wanted for just the extra EXP, not because it is a "real" asset to the party.

Like Corsair's Roll?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

Like Corsair's Roll?

In all honesty, any serious COR would probably love ot see that taken out of our job, but it does have its merits when there's a BRD in PT with us, so it would be kind of unbalancing to add something extra on top and a low blow to take the ability away from COR now.

It would also be difficult to manage that system.

Server low on THFs that day?
EXP Bonus for inviting THF!
And then everyone runs to the Mog House to change to THF.

I'd rather the new tier of mobs just have a different rate of EXP per kill.

No matter what, some job is always going to get the short end - if not by balance then community reputation.

Just look at WoW's Hunter. There's technically nothing wrong with the job's design, but its got a reputation because Hunters get overzealous and don't pay attention to what their pets are doing in crowd control situations, which ends up putting everyone in hot water.

The good one put the pet away when they'd not called for and focus on laying traps for crown control but the ones that insist on leaving the pet out for higher DPS are the ones that bring the job's reputation down. Hunters are basically the DRKs of WoW.

[Feba]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

I don't walk up to a police officer and keep calling him a "Cop," I at least address him as "sir."

Actually, this practice isn't that terrible. You might also call that cop "Officer,", the judge that processes you "Judge", and the courtroom officer as "Baliff". You probably call your medical professional "Doctor,", there are tons of other examples. And in other cultures, this is much more widespread, to the point of calling someone by their title being common across all fields-- and somewhat of a marker of respect. Japanese is one of those; people are frequently addressed by job title.

[Durahansolo]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

You might also call that cop "Officer"

I was thinking the same thing, not that I've had many run-ins with the cops or anything...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

Actually, this practice isn't that terrible. You might also call that cop "Officer,", the judge that processes you "Judge", and the courtroom officer as "Baliff". You probably call your medical professional "Doctor,", there are tons of other examples. And in other cultures, this is much more widespread, to the point of calling someone by their title being common across all fields-- and somewhat of a marker of respect. Japanese is one of those; people are frequently addressed by job title.

Yeah, but those are titles. Those work on-the-job. Formal.

Video games are not a job for us. Video games are a hobby. Informal.

In reality, its should be more like being a sports team. Here, titles are for outside observers or for discussing how a play works. Titles are for making things easy to understand.

But you don't call the person on your team by title. The coach doesn't call the halfback "Halfback" when he's talking to him, he uses his name or at least last name. That's what I'm talking about here. The coach is the only real rank in the room, the leader, so it fine to call him that.

I joined a team, not a company. Call me by a title and you're just making me a number and reminding me you see this as a job. I'm not working, I'm not in the army. Its a video game. Use names.

[Durahansolo]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

The coach doesn't call the halfback "You! With the face!"

I thought he called him Eyeshield 21.

[Mezlo]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

Yeah, but those are titles. Those work on-the-job. Formal.

Video games are not a job for us. Video games are a hobby. Informal.

In reality, its should be more like being a sports team. Here, titles are for outside observers or for discussing how a play works. Titles are for making things easy to understand.

But you don't call the person on your team by title. The coach doesn't call the halfback "Halfback" when he's talking to him, he uses his name or at least last name. That's what I'm talking about here. The coach is the only real rank in the room, the leader, so it fine to call him that.

I joined a team, not a company. Call me by a title and you're just making me a number and reminding me you see this as a job. I'm not working, I'm not in the army. Its a video game. Use names.

ok BRD SCH BST WHINER VideoGameElitest BBQ

[Neverslip]

Re: Over 9000... er... ok, Over level 75 - New cap 99 o.o

Video games are not a job for us. Video games are a hobby. Informal.

Blasphemy!!!!