Least-needed Dynamis jobs?

[Zoltar]

Just curious since I've only been in a few EG linkshells over the years, what jobs do you think are LEAST needed in Dynamis? (And why?) Why does BST seem favored over SMN? Why do I never see PUP?

Just want an open discussion on the topic, b/c I'm tired of hearing ppl yell at others NOT to bring certain jobs

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Least-needed Dynamis jobs?

All of them are the least needed job. Mostly because I think Dynamis is the least-needed thing to do just behind HNMs.

[Callisto]

Re: Least-needed Dynamis jobs?

SMN actually has useful party benefits(especially since last update), hence BST being lower on the chain. BST is more or less a mediocre DD, and most Dynamis shells are already filled with enough mediocre DDs just from having newer players still working on their gear, without bringing jobs that are at a steep natural disadvantage vs. jobs like WAR or SAM.

PUP is more or less the same, it can deal moderate damage, and backup heal, however most people with PUP have another job, and most other jobs can do either task, but slightly better.

Even some strong DDs I don't personally like to bring with, such as DRG, simply because they lose out a lot as /NIN compared to WAR or SAM(I'm not super staunch on the /NIN for DDs, but for lowman northland runs we tend to play it safe) and aren't as versatile as something like DRK. RNG I dislike as well, simply because mobs tend to die quickly, and in my experiences it has a lot of trouble keeping up DD-wise simply due to mobs dying before it can get a few shots off.

Really though, pretty much everything aside from BST and PUP have a reasonable place as long as they know how to play their roles properly, NIN can pull very well in place of THF, WAR/NIN can tank most zones fairly well, SCH can handle various tasks that used to be left to other mages. Unfortunately for the other two it's just a case where other jobs do the same thing better, and when you're trying to mow your way through a large mass of fodder mobs on limited time you're aiming to be as efficient as possible.

That said, as a leader on BS city runs I tend to let people mix up their jobs a bit more, I only get very specific on clears or northlands.

[Zoltar]

Re: Least-needed Dynamis jobs?

All of them are the least needed job. Mostly because I think Dynamis is the least-needed thing to do just behind HNMs.

greatly NOT appreciated, thanks

[Solymir]

Re: Least-needed Dynamis jobs?

Since they aren't rules I made I am just going to list the jobs people are not allowed to come on to my dynamis shell's runs. By the way if someone only has one of these jobs they are allowed to come to dynamis with it, but if they should level another job to 75 that is more desirable they will forfeit the right to come on this one.

Pup
Bst
Smn


Just for the heck of it I will list the most desirable jobs. This is more opinion than fact but based on observation.

Blm
Pld
Nin
Whm
Rdm
DD

[Callisto]

Re: Least-needed Dynamis jobs?

Any shell that is still keeping SMNs out needs to learn to keep current, they can do well either taking a spot in the BLM-ish party for extra Refresh between Diabolos' Favor and an extra 1/tick out of Evoker's Roll, are pefectly capable of helping handle statues and crowd control if they know their job, and can help backup heal/support in a DD party with things like Earthen Ward. If they sub SCH they can easily keep their own MP up as well between Elemental Siphon and Aspir.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Least-needed Dynamis jobs?

greatly NOT appreciated, thanks

This isn't a topic for being helpful, but weeding out and diminishing the value of other jobs for the sake of elitism. Short version: Pet jobs get dicked because people don't want to think of a way to use them. Same reason SCHs that could crowd control are just asked to play healer - there's no thinking or stategizing there. People pick the easiest solution, always. Thinking bad.

And you're playing right along with it.

We've already had someone play the "mediocre DD" card on BST when the can actually be an asset to crowd control groups in cities. DRG and PUP have always been good for assisting some of the small crowd control groups as well.

SMNs are good supporters, buffing and healing. If there's an instance where big magical spike damage is needed, there you go.

But pet jobs are more complex and again, thinking is bad. Easier to not think, not try anything different from what you read on the wikis and forums.

All of them are just as useful as any warm body you'll throw in there for hitting things and healing. Does a melee's DoT really fucking matter when the cannon fodder mobs go down in five seconds no matter who you throw at them? I think not.

Some of the most "critical" jobs are just kinda there until a certain point of the fight. PLD and BRD don't really seem to have a stellar range here, but they're "needed." And yet, BRD gets the same dumb treatment SCH does - just stick em with the mages and ballad spam or, worse, a melee party where we'll just spam Minuet or March. No flexing the skills there, Mr. BRD, least amount of thinking. Yes, you will cry that you have to gimp yourself with a harp just to hit everybody that has run every which way.

PLDs role in Dynamis Bastok isn't much bigger than "pick target for melees."

Dynamis boils down to one critical skill for most people - listening.

The least useful person in Dynamis is the person that wastes everyone's time and doesn't pay attention. The most useful job will be defaulted to the most useless just for that.

But yeah, let's just keep rolling with this "least needed" discussion because its just adding sooo much to what we already knew - pet jobs get cockblocked for whatever reason leaders feel like.

[Zoltar]

Re: Least-needed Dynamis jobs?

you could have started off w/ your real opinion on the subject instead of giving your 'dynamis isn't worthwhile' post at first glance. if you re-read my original question, you'll see it states the following:

'what jobs are least needed in dynamis?'

I only gave a few examples and jobs I rarely see and I wanted to see if MAYBE some ppl did infact use them (for a greater good perhaps) We can roll all day with this discussion as it is a valid topic. I know that YOU don't want to discuss it because you think it is old hat, but please let others chime in with their opinions and stop trying to /thread because you're simply not interested.

[Callisto]

Re: Least-needed Dynamis jobs?

We've already had someone play the "mediocre DD" card on BST when the can actually be an asset to crowd control groups in cities. DRG and PUP have always been good for assisting some of the small crowd control groups as well.

I stated that the things they can do, other jobs can do better. Technically they can crowd control...but anyone with any out of RDM, BLM, WHM, SCH, BRD, COR, DRK, THF, RNG, or NIN can also crowd control even more effectively, while offering much better benefits to the alliance in the forms of healing, support, or damage dealing, greater so than a BST or PUP could. If someone has a job other than BST leveled I'm not going to let them come on that just so they can stick Carrie on a mob that 12 out of our 14 people could have slept or held easily, and then gone on to be even more effective in other aspects as well.

Some of the most "critical" jobs are just kinda there until a certain point of the fight. PLD and BRD don't really seem to have a stellar range here, but they're "needed." And yet, BRD gets the same dumb treatment SCH does - just stick em with the mages and ballad spam or, worse, a melee party where we'll just spam Minuet or March. No flexing the skills there, Mr. BRD, least amount of thinking.

Anyone who is putting a BRD with the BLMs/RDMs etc instead of a COR shouldn't be leading Dynamis. BRDs are put with melees spamming March because that's one of the most effective ways of speeding up kills, resulting in less deaths and greater loot yield. They should be assisting with crowd control, but they shouldn't be experimenting with shit like Pastoral mid-run just to see if they can try something new.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Least-needed Dynamis jobs?

Anyone who is putting a BRD with the BLMs/RDMs etc instead of a COR shouldn't be leading Dynamis.

That logic would cut out 90% of all Dyna shells right there. Its the truth, but try getting people do put COR in the BLM group that you're not leading.

BRDs are put with melees spamming March because that's one of the most effective ways of speeding up kills, resulting in less deaths and greater loot yield. They should be assisting with crowd control, but they shouldn't be experimenting with shit like Pastoral mid-run just to see if they can try something new.

Not talking about experimentation, just variety. Following any group around and alternating between one song, Elegy and Lullaby is boring as hell and you know it as well as I do.

[Vyuru]

Re: Least-needed Dynamis jobs?

Granted, my experience is limited to two Dynamis Sandy runs, but....

No Pups? Are you fricking insane or is there something that I am missing here?

Nyzul WS is awesome, most ranged frames that I have seen are in melee range, and while I don't know if this is how they normally work or just how the pull got brought in I don't know. But I do know that the mage frames tend to stand outside of AoE range, so for DD I would think use a Blm frame, which last I heard can toss tier IV nukes as well as a Blm can.

maybe it's just been my experience, but all of the Puppetmasters I know are damn good and could easily compete with any DD job out there, and frankly I think they'd probably win or at least make it a close tie.

Bst and Smn I can see working as well.

I'm going to agree with 'kitten in his second post, and relate the last Dynamis run as an example.

Dynamis Sandy, part of the plan is to beat on Orcish Monks and then sleep them when they use Hundred Fists. I am asked to come on Blu, so I'm Blu/Nin. Monks Hundred Fists, and some of the melee keep pounding on the Monks despite numerous messages about it. This results in some dead tanks and people. Now I, as a Blu, can do things in order to neutralize a Monk when they Hundred Fist. However part of that deals damage and takes quite a bit of hate sometimes, so if we are sleeping the Monk then I am not using these abilities. This results in dead people because I'm expecting everyone else to follow instructions, and they are not.

If we are going to kill the Monk regardless of Hundred Fists, I can Head Butt > Actinic Burst > Head Butt, I have enough +haste gear to normally keep a mob stunlocked with Head Butt alone, but if it wears too quickly I also have Temporeal Shift set and ready to go.

However this is not good to use on mobs that are going to be slept, I don't want to cast Head Butt just as another mage is casting sleep, that would be a bad thing.

So yes I agree with 'kitten above when he says that the most important thing is to listen and follow instructions, it let's the rest of us do our job and doesn't mess up the run.

Lost the AA fight a few times too due to people not listening.


Oh, and let it be known that when I think of a Bst or Pup, I am thinking of a decently to well geared player who knows their job and etc.

[Callisto]

Re: Least-needed Dynamis jobs?

Not talking about experimentation, just variety. Following any group around and alternating between one song, Elegy and Lullaby is boring as hell and you know it as well as I do.

I agree, but Dynamis specifically I always aim to get the most out of the time there. It's a long, boring event and I want to knock as much off our wanted list as possible each run so that we don't have to drudge through zones multiple times. What works best tends to well, work best, and sticking a BRD with your DDs to spam optimal songs qualifies as such.

No Pups? Are you fricking insane or is there something that I am missing here?

Nyzul WS is awesome, most ranged frames that I have seen are in melee range, and while I don't know if this is how they normally work or just how the pull got brought in I don't know. But I do know that the mage frames tend to stand outside of AoE range, so for DD I would think use a Blm frame, which last I heard can toss tier IV nukes as well as a Blm can.

maybe it's just been my experience, but all of the Puppetmasters I know are damn good and could easily compete with any DD job out there, and frankly I think they'd probably win or at least make it a close tie.

I'm not anti-PUP specifically, we have 2 very well-geared ones in our shell that I try to let use it when applicable, but their other jobs are COR for one and well, everything else for the other(Maat's cap player), with WHM/BRD/BLM/DRK/THF all being well-geared and easily available.

Yes, puppet nukes can do very well in raw damage, however there is a lack of control that is important in Dynamis. Puppets do not make reliable timed nukers, and they don't Sleepga afaik. If I have the option of putting a BLM, RDM, or SCH in that slot I will take it any day.

As far as a DD, if your shells PUPs are touching anything close to your WARs/SAMs/DRKs/DRGs, the issue is with your melees. My shell is a small, well-geared group so the differences are greatly magnified versus some shell with Usukane PUPs and AF Feet/Barone Legs WARs.

[Caramis]

Re: Least-needed Dynamis jobs?

well i dont think any job is less needed they all have their benefits and drawbacks as well, i just think most shells or shell leaders would prefer 5 jobs

pld
sams
rdms
brd
blm

maybe toss in a whm for r3s for the one that eventually begs for it i think every shell has one of those.

oh and forgive me a thf w/ th4..

its a shame things in this game can get so class restrictive at times or se tweaks it and then it changes preffered class to throw against it.

reminds me of that old joke from a few years back that was floating around ff forums.. and please dont hate me if i dont get it perfectly right but here goes::

hume pld, galka war, taru blm standing infront of the banishing gate..

pld rubs his chin.. "so how we gonna get through this..."

war looks over at the blm picks him up and launches him at the gate.. the little taru blm hits the gate with a resounding splat.. then slides down it towards the floor..

pld with a look of shock "what the hell are you doing?"

war looks at pld and shrugs "what?! dont we always throw blms at any problem we have?"

[Zoltar]

Re: Least-needed Dynamis jobs?

I'd like to think that pet jobs could be brought along for backup healing/dd/nuking mega bosses, etc

I have seen some great DD'n by PUPs lately, as well as MNKs. I'd hate to think there is no room for a well-geared MNK in dynamis too as a DD. That said, the point is to kill fast and nuke/sleep mobs appropriately.

I have a friend who is an EG Scholar and nukes very high up with the rest of the BLMs, are many ppl using SCH in place of BLMs?

[Callisto]

Re: Least-needed Dynamis jobs?

I have a friend who is an EG Scholar and nukes very high up with the rest of the BLMs, are many ppl using SCH in place of BLMs?

We tend to for cities/glacier, but one of our main SCHs is also a very well-geared BLM so I just let him come on either depending which he feels like.