How will FFXI become with real PVP contents!

[wrongfeifong]

I know this is pretty much going to be a dead topic or lock, but i would be nice if someone bring this up in next fanfest or something.

Since FFXIV is closing in soonish. While don't we have SE try add some real PVP element beside those "brenner and ballista" and please don't call them even pvp, no one even play them at least on my server(s). The only reason they are used are for duels.

What is the point of gearing up when there is nothing else to use it anyway, i am sure a lot people are in the same boat.

So i want to hear some ideal, at least it would be fun to see what everyone thing if FFXI have real PVP contents. For example: a battlefield where Windurst taru vs bastok Galka in a true battle with objective of siege"

The way i see it is, PVP should come in a new expansion that travel into 30 years later (and maat finally DEAD, it better be an epic one). Setting is something where country start battling for resources ... like windurst losing mana, and bastok want more mining and sandy want to prevent those two overpower. A third party of beastman will allied and attack as a third party on any places along but sometime they will make ally with some nation base on their power balance

New outpost will be player set to mine specific power resource and return to their nation for "points". players can form unions with their nation in that... etc.

There will be airship battles!!! where airship come close into each other enough to dock each other in the air!

Someone bring it up in next fanfest please, we all know they don't care about "english" inputs from these forums.

[Takelli]

Re: How will FFXI become with real PVP contents!

Since FFXIV is closing in soonish. While don't we have SE try add some real PVP element beside those "brenner and ballista" and please don't call them even pvp, no one even play them at least on my server(s). The only reason they are used are for duels.

The main reason as to why they are not balanced is because PVP is HUGELY unbalanced. A ranger can take out a Samurai in a second. Just bind them, run off then Sidwinder and they are down for the count.

The PvP content is also too fast as well to be enjoyable. 3 hits and your dead. Thats not really fun. Even if you are the attacker. If you hit first, you win bassically.

IF they made balanced PvP, it would be nice, or atleast put in "body hits" where if you get hit int eh arm, your attack deals less, you leg, you move slower, and depending ont he damage delt to it, depends on how much of an affect it has on you until healed. Or atleast have armor negate some damage.
Getting hit for 500 points of damage by a dagger when you are wearing plate mail is highly unlikely unless the armor is cracked first.

[Armando]

Re: How will FFXI become with real PVP contents!

The way i see it is, PVP should come in a new expansion that travel into 30 years later (and maat finally DEAD, it better be an epic one). Setting is something where country start battling for resources ... like windurst losing mana, and bastok want more mining and sandy want to prevent those two overpower. A third party of beastman will allied and attack as a third party on any places along but sometime they will make ally with some nation base on their power balance

New outpost will be player set to mine specific power resource and return to their nation for "points". players can form unions with their nation in that... etc.

There will be airship battles!!! where airship come close into each other enough to dock each other in the air!

You realize you're asking for a new game, not an expansion, right?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: How will FFXI become with real PVP contents!

I think so long as the only interest in PvP for FFXIV or FFXI is just people killing each other, that we're really never going to see it in that form. Also keep in mind that competitive online games are not the Japanese gamer's cup of tea. They'll gather in arcades for competitive things, but then, they kind of need reasons to get out of the home, especially in the city.

Ballista and Brenner were not bad ideas, I think its just the time restrictions that kinda destroyed their potential. This was something better left for the players to organize. The system should have just maintained the rules, not a schedule. I mean, we don't have the system maintaining schedules for Dynamis and we totally should because of the sheer demand. Ballista not so much.

[KingOfZeal]

Re: How will FFXI become with real PVP contents!

windurst losing mana, and bastok want more mining and sandy want to prevent those two overpower.

This is already true.

A third party of beastman will allied and attack as a third party on any places along but sometime they will make ally with some nation base on their power balance

There are already 9 classes of beastmen in what can be considered the "Old world (that is, FFXI through CoP) -- Orcs, Quadav, Yagudo, Goblins, Gigas, Tonberry, Deamons, Shagain, Antica, plus another 5 in the ToAU expansion -- Mamool Ja, Trolls, Lamia, Qiqirn, Poroggos. Even among beastmen there is conflict enough to keep them from teaming together (see also: the Crystal War, where only one, shall we say 'entity', the Shadow Lord, was strong enough to bring them all together). The hate between beastmen and the Children of Altana, especially during that time, would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to overcome. The only exception to this were the Goblins (as I recall, the Goblins didn't take a particular side during the War, but were more like Mercenaries), and the Yagudo with Windurst, who are at a semi-peace until the events of the Windurst mission line (again, if I remember correctly).

New outpost will be player set to mine specific power resource and return to their nation for "points". players can form unions with their nation in that... etc.

So.. campaign with non-fighting activities? Otherwise known as Campaign Ops?

There will be airship battles!!! where airship come close into each other enough to dock each other in the air!

See also: CoP 6-4. Granted, it's not repeatable, but you can still help others all you want. And yes, I know it's not exactly what you're talking about.

Someone bring it up in next fanfest please, we all know they don't care about "english" inputs from these forums.

Which isn't true as well, if you care to look at some of the updates in the past. They do keep up with what the community (meaning forums) put up, and updates tend to reflect that. Just because they don't reply or participate in it doesn't mean they aren't watching. Also, they won't necessarily listen to just one voice when something new, there needs to be a substantial demand for new feature. Or nothing better to do.

[Armando]

Re: How will FFXI become with real PVP contents!

I think its just the time restrictions that kinda destroyed their potential.

I think it's the lack of meaningful rewards. As long as people have limited play time and they're being charged monthly for access to FFXI, the majority will always default to activities that actually improve their character first.

[cidbahamut]

Re: How will FFXI become with real PVP contents!

What about the possibility that this game just doesn't attract a big PvP crowd?
The lack of PvP asshattery is actually a huge plus for me.

[wrongfeifong]

Re: How will FFXI become with real PVP contents!

The main reason as to why they are not balanced is because PVP is HUGELY unbalanced. A ranger can take out a Samurai in a second. Just bind them, run off then Sidwinder and they are down for the count.

The PvP content is also too fast as well to be enjoyable. 3 hits and your dead. Thats not really fun. Even if you are the attacker. If you hit first, you win bassically.

IF they made balanced PvP, it would be nice, or atleast put in "body hits" where if you get hit int eh arm, your attack deals less, you leg, you move slower, and depending ont he damage delt to it, depends on how much of an affect it has on you until healed. Or atleast have armor negate some damage.
Getting hit for 500 points of damage by a dagger when you are wearing plate mail is highly unlikely unless the armor is cracked first.

You realize the battles isn't as fast as you think? consider everyone got shadow up.
If you can one shoot my dnc with your "siderwinder" i will give you 500 millions gil.

I want to see what type of things everyone imagine up. Since this game might as well should become a "test" subject for SE to improve FFxIV, i think they should add PVP to see what happen.

Beside i never feel the game have unbalance PVP, of course brd can't do anything and that is a fact.

And let's stay off the PVP hates, if you never try, you never know.

[KingOfZeal]

Re: How will FFXI become with real PVP contents!

Shadows don't make nearly as much difference as you seem to think.

Give me 12 MP and 1.5 seconds and I can wipe EVERY shadow in a group of people. Diaga > shadows.

[Takelli]

Re: How will FFXI become with real PVP contents!

And let's stay off the PVP hates, if you never try, you never know.

Errrr... I did play PvP for about 2 weeks. Because I didn't have /nin, or a way to get rid oof shadows, It was a HUGE disadvantage.

Shadows can be taken down in a second. Just a single AoE can take down shadows, then the ranger can just sidewinder you to death. Its real easy to do it. Hell. The ranger can even be /sam for meditate and still own your ass. Once you are bound, and you see the "So and so does sidewinder" you know you are down, especially witht he long recast and casting times of utsusemi.

[Ketaru]

Re: How will FFXI become with real PVP contents!

About PvP contents. Keep in mind I'm on the Siren server where the PvP scene is still "relatively" active, compared to other servers. I can't say it's a thriving situation because it's really a bunch of diehard players that are keeping it afloat. But sometimes, we get isolated instances, like last week, where there was a 60 cap match of 23 vs 23 people.

The PvP content is also too fast as well to be enjoyable. 3 hits and your dead. Thats not really fun. Even if you are the attacker. If you hit first, you win bassically.

The reason why some people get killed so fast in PvP is because, often, they gear in ways that are more relevant to a majority of the game. IE, SAM who dies in seconds is probably geared for damage. Most people who actively try to become better at Ballista gear very differently. In fact, besides a few differences specific to certain jobs, the main stats that basically all jobs in Ballista gear for are:

HP
Defense
-Damage%
Movement Speed

You also get see some things you don't see anywhere else in the game: SAM subbing /PLD, RNG subbing /RDM (for Gravity, Dispel, as well as MAB for Trueflight), SMN subbing /BLU...

When I go on BST, I gear for: HP, Magic Attack Bonus, Ice Spikes, Resist Sleep.

I think so long as the only interest in PvP for FFXIV or FFXI is just people killing each other, that we're really never going to see it in that form. Also keep in mind that competitive online games are not the Japanese gamer's cup of tea. They'll gather in arcades for competitive things, but then, they kind of need reasons to get out of the home, especially in the city.

Maybe it's because there are more JP players overall, but I notice the opposite trend. The majority of Ballista players on Siren are JP. It is in the Japanese prime times that you see matches like 23 vs 23 60 caps.

Getting hit for 500 points of damage by a dagger when you are wearing plate mail is highly unlikely unless the armor is cracked first.

I find that highly unlikely even in the game, unless you've got a WS or damage dealing method that completely ignores Defense. In my signature, I put a little chat excerpt where I hit somebody for 623 damage, double the amount most WSs will do in Ballista, and for good reason. The magic WSs: Trueflight, Atonement, Primal Rend, and Leaden Salute, all ignore the ways people typically gear for damage mitigation. Also very easy to increase, gear Magic Attack Bonus. it's for that reason I think COR is one of the most powerful PvP jobs, because of their Quick Draws and Leaden Salute.

I think it's the lack of meaningful rewards. As long as people have limited play time and they're being charged monthly for access to FFXI, the majority will always default to activities that actually improve their character first.

I somewhat talked about this earlier in the reply, but I also think a turnoff is the poor applicability of PvP to the rest of the game. The best players are the ones using subjobs they wouldn't use in Dynamis, they merits things that are often viewed as useless like Formless Strikes or Feral Howl, suddenly gear swapping is bad where everywhere else it is essential to performing, players suddenly begin exploiting weaknesses in common tried and true methods (RDM mobs may not immediately cast Diaga the moment you use Utsusemi: Ni, but RDM or /RDM players certainly will). And because of all that, being a good player outside of PvP won't make you a good player in PvP, and being a good player in PvP won't mean you're good anywhere else in the game. It applies very poorly to anywhere else but PvP.

Not only will the majority always default to activities that actually improve their character first, but those improvements typically won't help them in this one area of the game? I'd imagine that'd be a big turnoff to a lot of people.

[DakAttack]

Re: How will FFXI become with real PVP contents!

And let's stay off the PVP hates, if you never try, you never know.

Blizzard has tried. Feel free to learn from their mistakes.

[cidbahamut]

Re: How will FFXI become with real PVP contents!

Since this game might as well should become a "test" subject for SE to improve FFxIV, i think they should add PVP to see what happen.

Fuck you.
Just because you've written FFXI off as dead the moment FFXIV hits shelves doesn't mean it should be getting royally screwed as some game design experiment testing ground.

You want to introduce more PvP? Watch as every job turns inside out with a wave of patches to balance the game for PvP. The jobs won't even look the same, so why not take all that "test subject" nonsense and stick it where it belongs: in a game that can incorporate it into its design from the ground up rather than forcing what doesn't work.

[Kailea]

Re: How will FFXI become with real PVP contents!

Fuck you.
Just because you've written FFXI off as dead the moment FFXIV hits shelves doesn't mean it should be getting royally screwed as some game design experiment testing ground.

You want to introduce more PvP? Watch as every job turns inside out with a wave of patches to balance the game for PvP. The jobs won't even look the same, so why not take all that "test subject" nonsense and stick it where it belongs: in a game that can incorporate it into its design from the ground up rather than forcing what doesn't work.

have you not been paying attention to FFXI the past few updates... are are you blind?

[DakAttack]

Re: How will FFXI become with real PVP contents!

have you not been paying attention to FFXI the past few updates... are are you blind?

Uh?