A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

[Yellow Mage]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Its nice, but if you're going to build that ACP body without +10 Accuracy and +4 Fast Cast - as much as I can say do as you like - something is wrong with your priorities as a melee RDM. Haste, Accuracy,and enspell builds are really all that matters since you're banking on Enspell damage to bring you up to par. Nobody is going to be blown away by a RDM's weaponskills.

If what you say is true, you'd make a better argument for Accuracy +10 Double Attack +2% - why would I have Fast Cast on what I'm basically turning in to a ghetto melee piece?

I know, its crazy they're given mage gear, seeing as they're mages and all. Oh and that nifty new Composure adds +10 Accuracy and X3 buff duration while in effect. You need gear for melee still? Even with all that's provided?

Sounds like you just want shinies again. And here I thought RDMs were cured of that.

RDM had it too good before their update and they have it even better now.

You know, the original intention of my post was not to ask for more "shinies." The point was, if they're going to flaunt more "shinies" in our face like, it's utter crap to charge $10 for it as well as a bad add-on to lead up to that.

If more potentially good melee gear is offered to us, I don't want the only way to get it to be buying a piece of equipment with a magey model and base stats that I can just so happen to augment with the "extra" melee stats - which coincidentally enough, happen to be better than anything else we have offered in the same equipment slot. No. To me, that's crap.

Aside from how the community in general still regards us, RDMs have it good now. I acknowledge that, but to try and pull this crap instead of just plain giving us more melee gear in the game itself (we don't need any more mediocre mage gear, we have Errant) is just plain being a tease in the worst way possible.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

If what you say is true, you'd make a better argument for Accuracy +10 Double Attack +2% - why would I have Fast Cast on what I'm basically turning in to a ghetto melee piece?

I would hope you'd consider other melee pieces first and make this a casting piece, but I suppose that all depends on what you intend your high level experience to be.

What other Double Attack gear do you intend to use this with, aside from Brutal Earring? Main hand Joyeuse and you've slashed the DA effect in half on both pieces of gear. Main hand something else and you're only going to get the most out of it if other jobs are laying down DA buffs.

Solo, without a /WAR sub and Brutal, the difference will be negligable. Main hand the Joyeuse and the effct would be practically non-existant.

You know, the original intention of my post was not to ask for more "shinies." The point was, if they're going to flaunt more "shinies" in our face like, it's utter crap to charge $10 for it as well as a bad add-on to lead up to that. If more potentially good melee gear is offered to us, I don't want the only way to get it to be buying a piece of equipment with a magey model and base stats that I can just so happen to augment with the "extra" melee stats - which coincidentally enough, happen to be better than anything else we have offered in the same equipment slot. No. To me, that's crap. RDMs have it good now, I acknowledge that, but to try and pull this crap instead of just plain giving us more melee gear in the game itself (we don't need any more mediocre mage gear, we have Errant) is just plain being a tease in the worst way possible.

You discredited your statement the moment you played the RMT card. You made the insane leap from dismissing the content - which you have to complete in order to get that reward - to insinuating that its RMT.

You're just spouting the elitist crap, whether you realize it or not.

Remember Star Wars Galaxies and how it originally was. You had to spend tons of time to even earn a starship and becoming a Jedi was intended to be extremely rare. Remember Jump to Lightspeed changing all of that? They realized - even as stupid as it was - that everyone wanted to be Jedis or Siths and have starships even if it didn't make sense in context to the setting and that they were practically giving ships away.

Something had to be done to keep interest.

How about that WoW Battlechest for Burning Crusade? Pre-order now and get an epic mount and more inventory slots for loot! You could do these things in game, took lots more effort. They weren't happy that things were being made easier for new players.

Champions Online is doing this sort of thing, too. Lots of games are doing it. PS3 Version of Arkham Asylum lets you be the Joker, which isn't possible in the 360 version (yet).

Part of it is because games are a lot more expensive to produce these days. Another reason is that consumers have proven they're stupid enough to fall for buying withheld content.

I don't really see what FFXI is doing in that light because I do have interest in the story content and respect that time and money have to be invested in writers and scenario planners. i'm quitting in November and I like Shantotto, so why shouldn't I be interested in this content? I have no long term use for this gear so what am I paying for here aside from access to the mission content?

You're not even close to ready for most of the mission content in the game beyond a certain level. By the time you can benefit from this gear, this stuff could be rolled into the next expansion for all we know.

If you don't like how this content is being released you can: (1) Not buy it, (2) Not buy it and stop subscribing, sending a bigger message to SE or (3) wait for it to be rolled onto a collection disc, which is actually happening soon and can only happen again in the future with the next main expansion.

No one is making you buy it. So if you don't like it, don't get it. Pretty easy, I say.

[Armando]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Attack doesn't mean jack for RDM anyway, your nicest way I can say it.

I wouldn't go so far. 10 Attack isn't magically less efficient for a RDM than for a "true" DD. In fact, quite the opposite is true - because a RDM's Attack tends to be weaker, the Attack yields a bigger improvement for them than for true melees. I would think a melee RDM would want all the help possible in bringing his damage up to par.

Man I feel for you so much TGM. I never had to repeat a BC more than 3 times in CoP. Mammets definitely was one of those sticking points though, because if you don't take the 3 NIN shortcut there's soooooo much that can go wrong. Nightmare doesn't exactly have the biggest leeway for stunning either, so I usually don't take it too hard when someone misses. It's hard but it's possible to recover from a Nightmare with some 2-hour use. I don't think I've ever seen a group survive 2 though. Then again my group didn't have a BLU.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

I wouldn't go so far. 10 Attack isn't magically less efficient for a RDM than for a "true" DD. In fact, quite the opposite is true - because a RDM's Attack tends to be weaker, the Attack yields a bigger improvement for them than for true melees. I would think a melee RDM would want all the help possible in bringing his damage up to par.

At the end of the day, though, RDM isn't going to compete with any melee if they're not nuking too. Sadly, the current climate is rigged against RDM in that regard.

I'm just of the mind of enhancing something more unique to my job. Where nukes are applicable, its going to add more to my DoT than melee will. I was nuking and MBing on RDM successfully before ToA came along. Just because ToA affects it doesn't mean I don't find merit to our nuking elsewhere.

Plus my RDM is a taru. And I have a SCH sub. M. Acc. and MAB would benefit two jobs rather than one. I'm referring to the ASA pants, mind you. Other Mini-expansions don't have much for SCH of interest that a slot isn't already better suited for.

[Karinya]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Funny to hear that coming from the person that started this debate in the first place by criticizing/mocking people that didn't like the add-ons, without any sort of provocation.

Uh... I count at least four posts bitching about add-on content before my first post to this thread, not even counting people talking about paying $10 for gear (which implicitly dismisses the content as worthless and something you only do for the gear). So I really don't know where you're coming from here.

[Aksannyi]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

The content was worthless, and people did only buy the expansions for the gear.

I sure didn't buy the first one to farm a bunch of key items from level 25 gobs.

[Karinya]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

@SHFD: Calm down, jeez. I never called RoZ a fuck-up.

Well, I will -- the first really severe balance problems in this game that are still around are RoZ multihit weapons and RoZ Utsusemi. There was, and still is, a lot of fun stuff in RoZ, but if the same team did RoZ and ToAU, you'd have to conclude that isn't exactly their A team from a balance perspective.

I called the decision to leave the missions uncapped a fuck-up.

I think that's a bit overly harsh, considering the way level caps worked until a few months ago. Finding people (let alone equipped people) to fight SL (or Dark Spark and AF3 NMs, which have the same issue) would be pretty challenging if they had to function under CoP-style level caps. I'm not convinced it would have been better. People would have taken that content more seriously, but they also would be more likely to get hung up on it and frustrated. Remember how popular Eco-Warrior has always been?

Now, of course, if you could put the level sync/gear scaling update in a time machine and send it back to RoZ, *then* capping SL and AF3s would be pretty obvious, and some of the RoZ fights might benefit from capping too. (Although RoZ always was pretty much an expansion for high levels, mission-wise, so maybe not.) But saying "it should have been that way from the start" is just imposing 20/20 hindsight.

Another issue, of course, is whether they should cap that content *now*, now that they have the technology to make it less of a PITA, but I think there would be more people complaining about it than enjoying it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

The content was worthless, and people did only buy the expansions for the gear.

I sure didn't buy the first one to farm a bunch of key items from level 25 gobs.

Hasty generalization are fun, aren't they?

I'm getting ASA.
I'm quitting the game no matter what happens in November.
I like mission content.

I personally thought the big fights in ACP were a blast and worth the price of entry alone. If I'm getting this content for gear, though, I have pretty lousy timing. I won't get much out of it.

[Vyuru]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Sadly there's still no easy way out of that god damned Mammets fight, which I'm starting to hate far, far more than any other in the entirety of CoP.

Seriously those guys piss me off... I'm glad I got it done back when we had the temp-log trick

Mammets were an easy fight, you had to use a cheap trick to beat them? >o.0<

Actually, all of CoP while not exactly easy, was not difficult until fighting Promathia, and even then the only difficulty was in that one NPC getting killed.

Seriously people, it's called strategy and planning ahead with just a little bit of luck mixed in, use it. If you have to resort to using a glitch it's because you didn't plan ahead or prepare properly.

STOP HAVING US RED MAGES ALMOST RMT OUR DECENT MELEE GEAR AND START PUTTING SOME MORE IN TO THE REGULAR GAME FOR ONCE!!!

What makes Rdm so special?

The drop rate of Nyzul Isle armor pieces frankly, sucks. You could call low drop rates one way of SE RMTing armor as well.

In the long run however, really so what if these mini expansions are $10 each? It costs about $13 per month to play this game. Show me any Limbus shell where you will get Homam pants within one month of joining. How about Nyzul? HNM shells?

It is because of this reason that I don't terribly mind these mini expansions.

I don't think I've ever seen a group survive 2 though. Then again my group didn't have a BLU.

We survived 3 Nightmares, but got lucky in that our Dnc resisted the third Nightmare's sleep effect and could wake us all up.

[Satori]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

In regards to that mammet fight if it's the first mammet fight.
You cant fail with 3 Pld/dnc another DD and a healer. You dont even need yellow liquids.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Hasty generalization are fun, aren't they?

I'm getting ASA.
I'm quitting the game no matter what happens in November.
I like mission content.

I personally thought the big fights in ACP were a blast and worth the price of entry alone. If I'm getting this content for gear, though, I have pretty lousy timing. I won't get much out of it.

Yeah, we all know you're a special little buttercup though. You just need to read the responses in this thread to see the majority of people are only interested in the add-ons for the gear. $10 for kitty pants equivalent vs 6-12+ months fucking around in Sky.

And what big fights in ACP? That piss easy BC with the teleporting goblin or the shittastically designed (I use the word design in the loosest possible sense) final fight where everyone uses an endgame-geared pld and ranged DD or face a 99% chance of wiping and repeating the climb?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Yeah, we all know I'm a special little bittercup.

Fixed.

You just need to read the responses in this thread to see the majority of people are only interested in the add-ons for the gear. $10 for kitty pants equivalent vs 6-12+ months fucking around in Sky.

Again, vocal minority.

See, you're still adhering to all the wrong points. +3% Haste and +2 DEX do make Kitty pants. Haidate is +5% Haste and +15 DEX. I don't think I need to play the math teacher here. The benefit is only for the people with no time to invest in sky, but its not going to come close to sating the demand for Haidate. Barbossa's Zerehs sure as hell didn't. Also +8% movement speed is not +12% and will not satisfy those holding out for what's better from Salvage or Sky, just merely tide the over.

For those with less time to play (let's just repeat this for emphasis), less time to play, less time to play it gives a satisfactory piece of gear. Satisfactory. Satisfactory is never the best, but for those with less time to invest it does the job.

What does Raydeus rant about half the time? Missions that are not soloable, no rewards for people with little time to play. How do you suggest we leverage that apparently rather common demand being made by people within and without of the FFXI community?

I just pointed out what other MMOs do and this isn't even as shady as that. They just outright give you the stuff, too, FFXI at least makes you go through the missions.

And what big fights in ACP? That piss easy BC with the teleporting goblin or the shittastically designed (I use the word design in the loosest possible sense) final fight where everyone uses an endgame-geared pld and ranged DD or face a 99% chance of wiping and repeating the climb?

I don't see the poor design in the BC, I just see people scared of getting SAed. That's nothing new, THFs deal with it all the time. If you can't count your shadows, it deserves to get you and I think its funny. I think the case is what I see as fun you just see as an annoying obstacle to a reward.

I'm sure you're going to play CoP Defense Force again, but this is casual content designed for people with less time. It shows. A majority has demanded and wanted this - you know, the people thatdon't play FFXI or don't have time to - or SE would not continue releasing the content. We've already established CoP Missions and Sky farming/gods aren't casual friendly. We've even established the common loathing among the hardcore for sky.

And ranged attacks are not mutually exclusive to RNG and COR. THF, DRK, WAR, SAM also happen to make use of this and anyone can sub /RNG last I checked. Additionally, the ranged attacks aren't even a requirement, as like anything else it can be meleeburned down by MNKs if you play your cards right. MNKs aren't rare.

If you want to keep thinking its dependent on RNGs, I'll be more than happy to let you, though. Suits my needs just fine. I'd like a little Triumph Earring with +3 ranged attack.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Again, vocal minority.

Yes dear, everytime the unwashed masses disagree with you they're the vocal minority. Your conceit is colossal.

Oh, and you can repeat the same tired and incorrect statements all you like. The add-on pieces are not just satisfactory, for many jobs they're best in slot. Everyone else acknowledges this but I'm sure you'll disagree because they're just the vocal minority right.

And ranged attacks are not mutually exclusive to RNG and COR. THF, DRK, WAR, SAM also happen to make use of this and anyone can sub /RNG last I checked. Additionally, the ranged attacks aren't even a requirement, as like anything else it can be meleeburned down by MNKs if you play your cards right. MNKs aren't rare.

I sometimes wonder if you believe half the shit you talk or whether it's just a byproduct of your desperation to win an argument you know you've lost. That's really the only reason I can imagine you'd pull idiotic statements out like monks can meleeburn it down. The majority of meleeburns fail hard not due to lack of skill but pure bad luck on Seed of Deference and Seed of Judgement. Of the few meleeburns that do succeed you can guarantee they'll be in godly gear which represents what percentage of the population exactly? The average player with one or two decently equipped jobs is going to spend weeks of frustrating attempts on that fight trying to win with anything but the ranged method. As to your comment about other classes being able to /rng I don't really need to explore the obvious stupidity of that statement.

Regarding the goblin fight, I think you missed my point that the fight was piss easy, however, you couldn't resist using it as another example of showing us how awesome you are compared to the average player.

[Vyuru]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

You just need to read the responses in this thread to see the majority of people are only interested in the add-ons for the gear.

Do they offer new zones? Nope
Do they offer endgame content? Nope
Do they offer fun stuff to do with the LS? Yup
Do they offer interesting gear that we get to customize? Yup


And yes, everyone just loves to go fight claim bots vs Kings because of the fight, no one does it for the gear.

Or Dynamis

Or Limbus

Or Nyzul

Or ZNMs

Or Sky

Or Sea


While there ARE some people who would do it for fun, if there were no rewards, how many people would still be doing these events?

But we only do mini expansions for the gear!


Damn you SE, damn you to Hades!

I sometimes wonder if you believe half the shit you talk or whether it's just a byproduct of your desperation to win an argument you know you've lost.

Pot calling the bright blue kettle black?

'Kittens posts offer reasoning behind them, for the most part.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Way to completely miss the point. Now go back and read what people have said on the subject of expansion content, challenge, and rewards vs add-on content, challenge, and rewards before posting.