A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

It's naive to say vanilla and RoZ content wasn't flawed in design. There's nothing terribly wrong with them, but they should have been level capped so that they would retain their difficulty. Look at CoP - even with 5 new jobs, new abilities, and lots of new gear and foods, it'll still take you 2 hours to do Promyvion-Zvahl and you'll probably still wipe to Ultima/Omega at least once. CoP is content is always difficult because when it comes right down to it, the level caps mean you're mostly in the same boat as the people that tried CoP when it came out. Then take a look at Shadow Lord - a fight that was made for level 60's, but because it wasn't capped, a Lv.75 can solo it for you.

Granted, these things happen - it's SE's first foray into the MMO world, so obviously you'll see fuck-ups in early content. Just because it's to be expected it doesn't mean the fuck-up isn't there though.

Hind sight is always 20/20. When these things were made, they were at the penultimate of difficulty for the time frame. Obviously, with the bar getting raised by the "developers" themselves, going back and looking at their previous work, the missions are incongruent with the developers newest standards in certain things. But honestly, calling it a fvck up is like looking back in your childhood and saying that Kindergarten was a fvck up because all you did was eat paste with snot coming out of your nose. Now that you are in college doing high level mathematics, sure, Kindergarten seems fvcked up, but it's what got you from point a to point b. The game has a sense of progression that cannot be ignored. Sure, each set of missions has almost very different, distinguishable characteristics that are not all congruent on a level playing field. Just because it got harder later on and the rules were more strictly enforced doesn't mean the team intentionally fvcked up. You'll forgive me I don't subscribe to this doctrine.

Obviously what Squee could've done "to appease the ever-vigilant gaming masses that scrutinize and micromanage every minut detail of game design" was go back and, if we're assuming they felt it necessary to compare and level the playing field on all grounds everywhere, add your level caps, and level the playing field on all sides in order to provide a semblance of congruity. But they obviously didn't possibly because in their minds it would be a waste of time and they didn't want to pay a programmer to do it. They possibly didn't care. That there will be your fvck up if anything.

My intent was simply that the missions were not so skewed that they were completely unenjoyable. My intent was not comparing or basing claims off of exact in-depth gaming rules. I'm working off of information I read where people complain about things being easy one moment then going 0 to 60 in difficulty in less than a second, and back to ez-peezy again. If anything, the expansions seem like they served to harbor a sense of nostalgia of the old game play and wrap up unanswered questions left over to CoP. What the hell is so wrong with that lol? I liked the little ending scenario. It was cute.

I don't know, I mean, the "play the hand your dealt" kind of attitude nets you a better gaming experience than "I am smarter than the developer and I should have designed this stuff myself so I'd enjoy it more." The former is the gist of what I read here.

I certainly wasn't making a basis of comparsion for minut details. I hate that you misunderstood or lightly took my wording out of context. But that's ok, I won't call you a "fvck up."

[LilithAngel]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Look at CoP - even with 5 new jobs, new abilities, and lots of new gear and foods, it'll still take you 2 hours to do Promyvion-Zvahl and you'll probably still wipe to Ultima/Omega at least once. CoP is content is always difficult because when it comes right down to it, the level caps mean you're mostly in the same boat as the people that tried CoP when it came out.

I would slightly interject here, and point out that that of the "5 new jobs" you mentioned, 3 of them has shifted the power balance more in the player's favor against the system than it already was. Dancer combines solid damage over time with effective debuffs and quite handy backup healing, which can often be that which can tip the scales in close battles, Scholar main or sub directly addresses one of CoP's main issues facing mages (increased MP efficiency during fights), and Blue Mage and its line of Stun spells, while not an auto-win, comes pretty damn close to making the majority of fights pretty simple and easy once the BLU latches onto the mob. While the system can still throw "screw you, you will lose" moments at you (which is present everywhere in the game), these are harder for the system to pull off in CoP because of these three jobs specifically.

I recently redid the Omega/Ultima fight on BLU for a friend of mine. I've done this fight on various jobs, and with various setups, with various results. Then I did it on BLU.

I will never touch a CoP mission again unless it's on BLU. Period. Now I see why SE didn't release the job with CoP. They wanted us to actually have a challenge. The Diabolos mission fight cannot kill you if you throw two BLUs at it. It cannot. Just don't be an idiot and stand on the wrong tiles, and you cannot lose.

Feed BLU Yagudo Drinks and Ethers, and just ride the Head Butt Expressâ„¢ through CoP. Better yet, pair them with a Dancer when you know the targets have MP.

The game has changed, and even CoP isn't immune to power creep. It's more resistant because of level caps, sure, but not totally immune.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Also its overlooking the fact that COR becomes the most viable refresher starting in 40 caps, the only support class that doesn't waste the slot since it can reliably DD as well (unlike BRD, which is dead weight til Airship). Not to mention, oh, Wild Card. Which brings all the players up in my face in Whitegate when then need to retry an CoP BCNM.

SCH and BLU damn near break the balance of some CoP fights. Seriously, take these two onto the airship fight, have BLU keep Spiral Spin applied while BRD does Haste buffs and SCH layers everyone in Stoneskin. Those three jobs by themselves mitigated practically all the damage we could have needed to worry about, and then we had a RDM and BLM, too. Weapons couldn't even damage our NIN. Only the WAR really took some hits.

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Also its overlooking the fact that COR becomes the most viable refresher starting in 40 caps, the only support class that doesn't waste the slot since it can reliably DD as well (unlike BRD, which is dead weight til Airship). Not to mention, oh, Wild Card. Which brings all the players up in my face in Whitegate when then need to retry an CoP BCNM.

SCH and BLU damn near break the balance of some CoP fights. Seriously, take these two onto the airship fight, have BLU keep Spiral Spin applied while BRD does Haste buffs and SCH layers everyone in Stoneskin. Those three jobs by themselves mitigated practically all the damage we could have needed to worry about, and then we had a RDM and BLM, too. Weapons couldn't even damage our NIN. Only the WAR really took some hits.

Cry SEE? This is why I hate when the playing field changes because when everyone in later versions grows up, they get all the new neato tricks to make the -totally-in-your-face-evil-BCs-of-Doom- almost super easy.

Oh well, I did all my CoP stuff pre-SCH/DNC and just when BLU was in its infancy. Some of us older players ought to be screamin mad! lol

[ruffrydasean]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Feed BLU Yagudo Drinks and Ethers, and just ride the Head Butt Expressâ„¢ through CoP.

Yea, I just so happened to be leveling BLU around the same time I picked back up on COP.... If we had 2 BLUs, pretty much stun lock whatever. on Omega fight, I just kept stunning with random spells thrown in between since i was the only BLU

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

I did CoPs on RNG first, without BLU or SCH to be seen, it's just I have two characters.

I did use COR a bit on some missions, but mainly just 40 cap farming, 50 Sacrarium farming. The rest was all RNG all the time. RNG has never gone out of style for CoPs.

[Armando]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

@SHFD: Calm down, jeez. I never called RoZ a fuck-up. I called the decision to leave the missions uncapped a fuck-up. There's a difference between calling RoZ a mistake, and calling a decision made regarding RoZ's design a mistake. Why does it offend you so much either way?

My intent was simply that the missions were not so skewed that they were completely unenjoyable.

And I never said otherwise. So why are you on my case again?

@LilithAngel: Very valid points, but it's not like these dream setups didn't exist before ToAU. A couple of Lv.30 SMNs will get you past Promyvions no sweat. A BST or two can take care of the Minotaur with Familiar'd slimes. BLMs will get you past Mithran Trackers. A couple of SAMs can beat down most things very, very quickly with Meikyo Shisui, especially stuff like Tenzen.

I wasn't implying that CoP is immune to power-creep because that would imply all sorts of silly things like "the introduction of Marinara Pizza doesn't give you an edge during CoP at all." The point was that its susceptibility to power creep is negligible compared to leaving the missions uncapped.

[Malacite]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Sadly there's still no easy way out of that god damned Mammets fight, which I'm starting to hate far, far more than any other in the entirety of CoP.

Seriously those guys piss me off... I'm glad I got it done back when we had the temp-log trick

[Clever Ninja]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

I'm doing CoP now as a BLU. How anyone did this before Head Butt is beyond me. I did CoP 2-5 as a RDM to kite a Mammet, which is honestly some of the most fun I've had just cause there were a lot of WTF moments in that 2-3 minute process.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

To any and all saying that the end-rewards are entirely optional and replaceable (easily or not) by existing pieces of gear: screw you.

For the third time in a row, with the release of an add-on S-E has very much been selling Red Mages some of the best front-lining gear we are going to see in the slot provided, ever.

A Haubergown is, to the best of my knowledge, only beaten by a Morrigan's Robe (and only because Refresh alone is worth 5 Accuracy and 1 Attack, never mind all of the other magical bonuses that come bundled with it as well), and yeah, we totally see Red Mages everywhere running around with those. (Sarcasm off, I actually did one day. Morrigan's Robe and Duelist's Chapeau Red Mages just seemed to pop up everywhere I went for some bizarre reason. But that's an anecdote and beside the point.)

To my knowledge, Accuracy +25 on a Weapon skill, performed by a job with a B skill (+15), whose bread-and-butter weapon skills when meleeing are 3, 4, or 5-hits apiece, is unmatched by a long shot.

And now the legs. Accuracy +7 alone beats what is possibly the best we have in the slot, but then again that isn't saying much when the "best" are pretty much Pahluwan Seraweels. Movement Speed +8% is also an attractive way to hold off on W. Legs until one has the resources (and will) for those, and provided one manages to get them, the Movement Speed can be replaced with Haste +3%, which also happens to beat out the ol' Nashira option in that department. Guess it would be relegated to Enfeebling macros only.

- - - - -

Now, for those of you saying (possibly using harsher wording), "But Yellow, you moron, Red Mage front line is itself strictly and situationally optional for your job," I'd like to point out that 1. I do not very much like being blocked from options that I am interested in, especially by the purchasing with real money of an add-on which may more than likely be of shoddy and undesirable quality, and 2. the options for augmenting are for my job's "specialty" of casting Enfeebling Magic are, relatively speaking, not that good:

Body: Magic Accuracy +9.5, meet Mr. Enfeebling Magic +15 AF.

Head: obviously not everybody has Relic Hat or even W. Mask, so maybe MP +20 "Conserve MP" +3 INT +4 Magic Accuracy +5 hMP +3 is, in fact, marginally better than most everything else in the slot. Marginally. You're typically going to want to strive for one of the first two pieces mentioned, though.

Legs: Magic Accuracy +4 barely beats Errant Pants (it matches the HQ). There really are only two pieces better than it in that department, neither very simple to obtain: Morrigan's Pants, which beat it by a bit, and Nashira Seraweels, which obviously crush it. The thing it has on everything else, though, is of course the Movement Speed +8%.

- - - - -

Our second best skill, immediately before weapons, is B+ Enhancing Magic, the only things that the add-on equips have to add to that are the obligatory and rudimentary +MND given just for being magey gear (gee, thanks S-E!), itself being a trivial task to beat, some Fast Cast bonuses that RDM RSE laughs at, and some Haste. Glamor Jupon and Warlock's Tights win out for most spells automatically just by having +Enhancing Magic skill on it (Errant body wins out for Stoneskin, of course), and for Recast times, Relic Body (also wins casting time) or Goliard Saio win for body and AF Hat (again wins in casting time) or W. Turban tie for head, but add-on pants do win here for legs if given 3% Haste.

- - - - -

So, the Royal Redingote is complete garbage magically for Red Mages, the Selenian Cap is a marginally good Enfeebling piece for every Red Mage without at least a Crimson Mask, and the Tatsumaki Senpu Kyaku is decent for whatever use you decide to use it for. If augmented physically, though, we have the second best front-line body for Red Mages, the absolute-best-by-a-mile Weaponskilling headpiece in the game, and easily the best RDM front-line pants there are. And S-E expects me to buy each, 2/3rds of them on painfully magey models, mind you!, for $10.

I was already fooled in to doing so twice (the second one was shame on me). But I am sending a message to Square-Enix: I'll buy the add-on if it's any good, but no matter how good these pants actually are, if the add-on turns out to be the third in a series of garbage, I will NOT end up just buying my darned Red Mage front lining equipment from you, not like this. I am, however, paying for it each month, with each passing subscription fee, and thus I humbly request that you STOP HAVING US RED MAGES ALMOST RMT OUR DECENT MELEE GEAR AND START PUTTING SOME MORE IN TO THE REGULAR GAME FOR ONCE!!!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

RDM had great melee gear before the mini-expansions, its just you couldn't use it for same purpose as casting and had to make macros accordingly. That and you didn't see new gear very often for RDM. Even with the augments, there are vastly superior casting options outside of these rewards and very suitable melee ones..

It is optional gear, if I wanted to build Kitten a good RDM melee build, I don't need to do it through the mini expansions - I got it through Assault, ToA and CoP sidequests and camping Charby. What's good for my COR happens to be really good for RDM, too. Its the same melee build I'd be using for COR/RNG or COR/DNC.

Head: W. Turban.
Body: Pahluwhan
Hands: Dusk Gloves.
Legs: Phaluwhan
Feet: Dusk Ledelsians
Waist: Swift Belt
Neck: Chiv. Chain
Earrings: Suppanomimi/Fenrir's
Rings: Raja/ Ecphoria
Main Hand: Joyeuse.

If I need more accuracy, then I'll use sushi or even sub DNC.

Only RDMs that made a Hauby robe are the ones that didn't know they could equip SH or Pahluwan body; or just never had time for endgame and did have time for Campaign. That's fine, lots of other people saw this as an opportunity to just sell Haubys and SHs away. The pieces are what you make of them, none of them are end-all gear, though.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Even with the augments, there are vastly superior casting options outside of these rewards.

My point. You just found half of it. (The other half being that the add-on rewards tend to be, in some way, superior to most other pieces of gear. Attack +10 would show more damage over time than a minor critical hit rate boost, please tell me you don't weapon skill in a Wal Mart Turban, and Accuracy +7 alone kinda beats Pahluwan Seraweels.)

Ah, well, half is better than what you seem to be doing in the other thread.

---------- Post added at 01:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 AM ----------

That and you didn't see new gear very often for RDM.

Every update that adds new gear Red Mages are given the Magey set by default. We probably have as many of those by now as Link has Master Swords.

The last time we thought we were getting our latest melee set since Pahluwan for once it turned out to be the Enkidu Harness Set that belonged to THF. It was still a big deal, and then a big letdown.

[Armando]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Sadly there's still no easy way out of that god damned Mammets fight, which I'm starting to hate far, far more than any other in the entirety of CoP.

3 NINs. Always has been, always will be the easy way.

Also CoP Diabolos has never been hard. Either someone screws up and he gets off Nightmare, or you and him duke it out 'til he ends up dead.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

My point. You just found half of it. (The other half being that the add-on rewards tend to be, in some way, superior to most other pieces of gear. Attack +10 would show more damage over time than a minor critical hit rate boost, please tell me you don't weapon skill in a Wal Mart Turban, and Accuracy +7 alone kinda beats Pahluwan Seraweels.)

Ah, well, half is better than what you seem to be doing in the other thread.

Attack doesn't mean jack for RDM anyway, your nicest way I can say it. Its nice, but if you're going to build that ACP body without +10 Accuracy and +4 Fast Cast - as much as I can say do as you like - something is wrong with your priorities as a melee RDM. Haste, Accuracy,and enspell builds are really all that matters since you're banking on Enspell damage to bring you up to par. Nobody is going to be blown away by a RDM's weaponskills.

Every update that adds new gear Red Mages are given the Magey set by default. We probably have as many of those by now as Link has Master Swords.

I know, its crazy they're given mage gear, seeing as they're mages and all. Oh and that nifty new Composure adds +10 Accuracy and X3 buff duration while in effect. You need gear for melee still? Even with all that's provided?

Sounds like you just want shinies again. And here I thought RDMs were cured of that.

RDM had it too good before their update and they have it even better now.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

3 NINs. Always has been, always will be the easy way.

Also CoP Diabolos has never been hard. Either someone screws up and he gets off Nightmare, or you and him duke it out 'til he ends up dead.

MAMMETS SUCK! 17+ tries!! (I gave up counting damn it!) And then AFTER I get it finally, I would help others and EVERY TIME ON THE FIRST TRY THEY'D GET IT! /sigh

I let a Nightmare get by on Diabolos on my drk......./em hangs her head in shame. My grandson came in to say goodnight and grabbed my arm and I missed hitting the key for stun.......and then I yelled at him. Talk about feeling like a royal piece of shit. The kids got a trip to Chuck E Cheese and Toys R Us out of that mistake!