JOGA interfering with FFXI and SE's future requirements?

[jenova_9]

JPButton » Verified by Visa and JOGA

"The sudden requirement for people with North American accounts to use Verified by Visa or MasterCard’s SecureCode has caused quite a stir in the community lately. There has been a lot of speculation as to why Square Enix would suddenly spring this on players.

One possible reason I’ve discovered today is something maybe people heard before but had forgotten about. Back in February in the Geekonomics blog on CNET Asia, the article author talks about JOGA’s support of Verified by Visa. Later Massively picked it up as well.

JOGA is the Japan Online Gaming Association. It is a relatively new industry association. Many of the association members are companies involved with the online gaming industry in Japan, like Webmoney and NCSoft. Square Enix does not appear to be a member at this time.

Back in January, JOGA made an announcement saying they were cooperating with VISA to create industry support for 3D Secure (in VISA’s case, Verified by Visa). They want to see 100% participation by companies that offer online games and services in Japan. At the time of the announcement, they said 60% of their association members were participating already with the Verified by Visa program. I decided to check The Tower of AION since I have a Japanese account. Sure enough, they require Verified by Visa or MasterCard’s SecureCode for people who opt to pay by credit card. While Square Enix is not currently a member, they might be trying to align themselves with the group’s standards. Perhaps they might even try to become a member of the association in the future.

So far the requirement is only on North American accounts. However, if they are trying to meet the standards set by JOGA, we might see changes for European and Japanese accounts in the future.

You can see the original announcement by JOGA in Japanese on their site here."


Are they an evil shinra company? How are they profitting from this? FFXI is losing subscribers betcause they can't even pay to play.

That is not smart from a business standpoint and there doesn't look like SE has anything to gain joining their bandwagon.

[Takelli]

Re: JOGA interfering with FFXI and SE's future requirements?

That is not smart from a business standpoint and there doesn't look like SE has anything to gain joining their bandwagon.

If SE is loosing money because of this, then why are they even doing it? Whats the point to even do this anyways? Its just to put more stress on legit players? I haven't seen one good thing come from this since it has been started.

[Ziero]

Re: JOGA interfering with FFXI and SE's future requirements?

How many players have they actually lost to this change though?

I know none of my friends, or any of their friends or any of the friends of friends stopped playing. Hell I checked my card after they announced this and apparently it's already secured and I never even knew it was. Has anyone gotten any numbers as to how many people were forced to stop playing because of the change? Was it thousands of players suddenly cut off? Or more like a few hundred who have to change their billing info?

I mean, back when the Salvage bans hit, and 1kish accounts got banned/suspended, everyone was all up in arms about the hit in subscriptions FFXI would take...yet the game hasn't changed at all with those 500 or so banned accounts gone. There has to be something in it for SE to do this if they're losing players, and if they've really lost that many people to make a dent in their profits it's gotta be something *real* good. But so far, I haven't even seen a rough estimate of people who suddenly had to stop playing.

[Mhurron]

Re: JOGA interfering with FFXI and SE's future requirements?

How many players have they actually lost to this change though?

Only those who had to reenter credit card information for whatever reason and don't have VbV (or whatever MasterCards program is called) on their card. Neither Visas or MasterCards security program can verify recurring charges so you only go through the processes of entering your password when you change your billing details.

If you're payment method wasn't rejected for whatever reason on Aug 1, you didn't notice they made a change at all.

[Aksannyi]

Re: JOGA interfering with FFXI and SE's future requirements?

Eventually, though, it will affect everyone, because everyone eventually needs to change their payment. Some will have much longer than others to take care of this, others will have to next month and find that they can no longer pay and play.

I don't think they're losing that many, but every time they do something they lose a few they wouldn't have before. That's gotta be adding up.

[Feba]

Re: JOGA interfering with FFXI and SE's future requirements?

honestly, I highly doubt it's that big of a deal to their bottom line. Hell, maybe the entire reason the mini-expansions have been so price-gougingly delicious is because they wanted to get a bit of cash under their belt before they lept into this.

But how many people have we heard bitching about getting a card to pay for it? SE has never offered POL cards as far as I know; and I've certainly never seen any in a store. Certainly there are more kids out there that can't play it because their mommy won't let them use the credit card than there are people out there who can't (or won't) obtain cards that support this. SE doesn't really care, and they won't until it shows some real damage to their profit margins.


PROTIP: won't be, dudes.

[jenova_9]

Re: JOGA interfering with FFXI and SE's future requirements?

even though right now it's not affecting "that many' people,
every person that is wiling to pay to play and are not RMT, are important and real people who deserve to get whatever enjoyment they want out of FFXI.

If you were going through this you would feel the same way. SE might not care or be aware of the numbers, but it's still causing damage to subscribers out there.

[Feba]

Re: JOGA interfering with FFXI and SE's future requirements?

every person that is wiling to pay to play and are not RMT, are potential sources of profit.

This, and nothing more. SE is perfectly free to determine what means people need to be able to play, and what they will support. There's no reason they should have to support old and outdated cards just because people use them. The same logic would apply to old computers, too; and it's significantly less hassle to go out and buy a new computer than to sign up for a new credit card.

SE doesn't have to port it to other platforms either. That doesn't mean they shouldn't, but if you don't want to play exactly the way they proscribe, tough shit.

[Aksannyi]

Re: JOGA interfering with FFXI and SE's future requirements?

It's not even under the customer's control whether their card is "outdated," though. It's under their bank's control. I'm not going to change banks because mine doesn't use VbV, that's retarded and asinine, and any company that would expect as much is just as retarded. They should, however, offer other avenues of payment for people whose banks/cards do not use the service instead of completely cockblocking some users completely.

It's not a matter of not wanting to. It's a matter of not being able to. Credit is not easy to come by. Go ahead and apply for a card in my name, I guarantee you'll get laughed at. Many are in my boat, for whatever reason. In a lot of debt or just screwed from old debt or bad marriages or whatever. Changing cards or not changing cards isn't always a matter of want. It's a matter of actually being able to do so.

[jenova_9]

Re: JOGA interfering with FFXI and SE's future requirements?

that's why SE should start offering time cards/ subscription cards people can buy at gamestores. this way they don't need a VbV certified credit card.

just make the time cards like monthly or 1 year subscriptions so people don't need to hold onto a deck of 24 hour cards.

if XBL Live subscription cards are sold in stores, SE should learn from that, and especially consider offering subscription
cards for FFXIV.

as the way things are now, FFXI is going to snowball into more groups of lost subscribers when this VbV thing affects UK
and Japan.

[Feba]

Re: JOGA interfering with FFXI and SE's future requirements?

Like I said, they don't support different hardware or software, either. Mac/Linux users are screwed. Wii owners are screwed, and PS3 owners could be treated better. And it's pretty stupid to go out and spend hundreds of dollars to play one game.

The best policies for companies like SE is that if they don't want your business, you ought oblige them.

[Aksannyi]

Re: JOGA interfering with FFXI and SE's future requirements?

It's one thing to stiff people who never were playing your game in the first place (Mac users, for example) and people who have been playing your game with little to no problems for several years.

I agree, best course of action is to tell them to go fuck themselves, but they really should start to care more, or they will begin to lose.

[Raydeus]

Re: JOGA interfering with FFXI and SE's future requirements?

Nah, just look at the novelettes, they seem to be selling pretty well for 10 bucks.

A lot of people bought Kupo even though they knew exactly how lacking it was. And a lot more people will play SE's online games no matter how many hoops they have to jump through to do so.

The best way to change things is with lots of screaming, loud whinning and press attention. It's a method that has proven to be effective time and again.

Quiet demonstrations like simply stop paying don't work on this one.

[Feba]

Re: JOGA interfering with FFXI and SE's future requirements?

It's one thing to stiff people who never were playing your game in the first place (Mac users, for example) and people who have been playing your game with little to no problems for several years.

Yeah, and the difference, from the perspective of an inhuman corporation the size of SE, is that you've already got money from one of them, and you don't have any money from the other one. It's just a matter of who can give you more money in the future. If going along with Visa is more profitable for them than keeping the customers who absolutely cannot get this technology, they'll go with the more profitable option. If it's not truly more profitable, I doubt they would've done it.

[Thalyn]

Re: JOGA interfering with FFXI and SE's future requirements?

It hasn't affected me yet, but it will in less than a year when my credit card expires and I have to update my billing information with the new card I'm issued. I use Citibank and currently they're not a part of this program. I've been with them for 15 or so years now, and for SE to expect me to suddenly get a second card simply to play their game is (I feel) a tad ridiculous. I can use this card to purchase (insert something impressive here), but I can't use it for my monthly fee on their MMO? Okay..