Rally 'round to send Square-Enix a message!

[Aksannyi]

Re: Rally 'round to send Square-Enix a message!

Well I'd quit completely last month, so it's not so much about me anymore, though I feel for people who are in this situation because this would be my situation. I still think they could have given a lot more notice than they did, and that they could put something in place for people who absolutely can't get a card which works with this system, and there are plenty of people who can't just go out and get a new card. (Like I've said, my ex-husband absolutely destroyed my credit.)

At this point I think that the VbV thing was totally unnecessary and is causing a ton of grief for people. If I was still playing the way I was two months ago and I had to try to wait for a brand new credit card (assuming I could get one) I would have gone mad, and quit out of frustration. I'm glad I quit before all this went down, to be honest, though it still irritates me that people who want to play can't, simply because their method of payment can't be registered with them.

[Sylvane]

Re: Rally 'round to send Square-Enix a message!

I agree that this is a silly new security feature, and that they should have given way more notice about it to people. three days is absurd to warn the playerbase that they're implementing something, although with all the ninja updates, I'd say be grateful we were warned at all. My biggest thing is that they really don't have to explain anything. saying that they HAVE to is wrong. If the community bands together and asks them to, and they do, yippee, but they don't have to

[Kurb]

Re: Rally 'round to send Square-Enix a message!

Well I posted that I was done with FFXI and was waiting for 14 but then I got a parking ticket ontop of repairs to my car so I was not able to go and get airsoft gear and I said wtf and lvleled RDM then I said hell I'll finish RoZ and try to clear some more CoP since I had a lvl 50 RDM/BLM to choose fromringing SE first thing again tomorrow

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Rally 'round to send Square-Enix a message!

As Mhurron said elsewhere, though, it may not have been something SE wanted to do, but something they had to do on short notice. Eerie that I'd ever see eye-to-eye with him on anything, but this does sound like SE and other companies getting the run-around by Visa. A lot of businesses are looking for ways to satisfy their bottom lines, even at the expense of other businesses and their customers, its not just Visa.

[Kurb]

Re: Rally 'round to send Square-Enix a message!

True but still I'll give it a go

[Aksannyi]

Re: Rally 'round to send Square-Enix a message!

As Mhurron said elsewhere, though, it may not have been something SE wanted to do, but something they had to do on short notice. Eerie that I'd ever see eye-to-eye with him on anything, but this does sound like SE and other companies getting the run-around by Visa. A lot of businesses are looking for ways to satisfy their bottom lines, even at the expense of other businesses and their customers, its not just Visa.

Then that's fucked up on Visa's part. And if it was pressure by Visa, the worst part is it just makes SE look bad.

Not that they don't do that just fine on their own.

But yeah. If Visa's going to start pushing their verification thing, then they need to get more card companies on board with it.

[Sylvane]

Re: Rally 'round to send Square-Enix a message!

I'm guessing it probably was visa pushing it, and I may be wrong, but I'm assuming Debit cards don't work with the verified by visa program. and a lot of players pay with debit. SE should probably just let debit card users enter their pin number, which amounts to the same level of security as a password from the VbV

[Pawkeshup]

Re: Rally 'round to send Square-Enix a message!

I doubt it is pressure from Visa or MasterCard. The verification campaign ran a couple years ago and was an abject failure. No major retailers followed through with it due to consumer pressure about having to remember yet another password in a world already overfull of them.

The reason for this is the poor billing policy of Square-Enix. By doing this, it places the responsibility on the client. In the end, it was unneeded, and no other game and very few services require you do this. One thing you need to consider is that Verified by Visa, and most likely Secure Card, is that it terminates some of your rights to fraudulent charges...

CARDHOLDER PASSWORD AND SECURITY – You are solely responsible for
maintaining the confidentiality of your password, Registration Data and other verification
information established by you with Verified by Visa, and all activities that occur using your
password, Registration Data or other verification information supplied to or established by you
with Verified by Visa. You agree not to transfer or sell your use of, or access to, Verified by
Visa to any third party. You agree to immediately notify us, by contacting us as we require in
our Cardholder Agreement with you for a lost or stolen card, of any unauthorized use of your
password or other verification information, or any other breach of security. You acknowledge
and agree that, except as otherwise provided by Applicable Law or in our Cardholder
Agreement with you, Frost Bank shall not be liable for any loss or damage arising from your
failure to comply with this TOS.

This is off a random bank's version of the ToS, but almost all are the same. It basically means if you get your card number and VbV password stolen, and someone charges items, you are 100% liable for repayment.

Fun stuff, huh.

[Kailea]

Re: Rally 'round to send Square-Enix a message!

I doubt it is pressure from Visa or MasterCard. The verification campaign ran a couple years ago and was an abject failure. No major retailers followed through with it due to consumer pressure about having to remember yet another password in a world already overfull of them.

The reason for this is the poor billing policy of Square-Enix. By doing this, it places the responsibility on the client. In the end, it was unneeded, and no other game and very few services require you do this. One thing you need to consider is that Verified by Visa, and most likely Secure Card, is that it terminates some of your rights to fraudulent charges...
This is off a random bank's version of the ToS, but almost all are the same. It basically means if you get your card number and VbV password stolen, and someone charges items, you are 100% liable for repayment.

Fun stuff, huh.

yes heaven forbid people don't take their own responsibility or anything......

[Pawkeshup]

Re: Rally 'round to send Square-Enix a message!

yes heaven forbid people don't take their own responsibility or anything......

Apparently you either missed the point, or... nah, you missed the point.

See, standard credit card policy is that charges are reversible from the moment you report your card stolen. You normally notice that your card is missing.

Now, online, they tend to be a bit more aggressive. Your card can get locked down for "suspicious activity", meaning that suddenly you're charging a whack of purchases at some bizarre website you've never used before.

I should know. I got called once by my bank asking if everything was alright when I was buying something online. It was actually pretty damn cool.

What the above says, basically, is you wave that right. So that means, you are now 100% liable for any false purchases made. Heaven forbid someone keylogs your "secure" passcode.

Heaven forbid.

[Kailea]

Re: Rally 'round to send Square-Enix a message!

Apparently you either missed the point, or... nah, you missed the point.

See, standard credit card policy is that charges are reversible from the moment you report your card stolen. You normally notice that your card is missing.

Now, online, they tend to be a bit more aggressive. Your card can get locked down for "suspicious activity", meaning that suddenly you're charging a whack of purchases at some bizarre website you've never used before.

I should know. I got called once by my bank asking if everything was alright when I was buying something online. It was actually pretty damn cool.

What the above says, basically, is you wave that right. So that means, you are now 100% liable for any false purchases made. Heaven forbid someone keylogs your "secure" passcode.

Heaven forbid.

yeah because anyone can have their card stolen, its not hard... but if you have your card stolen and they get your passcode.... that's all your fault.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Rally 'round to send Square-Enix a message!

I don't know, some of those keyloggers are pretty damn sneaky, and your average soccer mom isn't going to know that something like that got on her computer until she's already had thousands charged on her card.

I'll use my mom as an example, she's the most computer retarded person I know. She'd never have any idea if someone put a keylogger on her computer. Hell, I'm amazed she actually understands how to access the internet. If I were still living there I'd still be showing her how to open Word. People who know what they are doing will have no trouble stealing information and/or money because there are a lot of people who will never know they got a keylogger.

I wouldn't be so quick to blame the average computer user. Those of us here are on heightened security watch because we already don't want our FFXI accounts stolen, but average computer users aren't going to be nearly as careful, or wary that such programs even exist.

I'm sure it doesn't happen often, and I'm sure some people are dumb enough to write their codes right on their cards. Those people are idiots. But those of us who just remember our codes for things like this are still at risk of being keylogged, and we all know that it can happen. I don't like the idea that I'm liable for charges someone else makes if the unexpected happens. Which is why I don't like this Verified by Visa business at all. They're preventing very little, in my opinion.

[Pawkeshup]

Re: Rally 'round to send Square-Enix a message!

The only nice thing is that is may vary from bank to bank. Visa states that you still have the Zero Liability in effect so long as the bank backs that as well. I'm trying to find out what my bank's policy is, but it's definitely another strike against SE using this service, considering the standard policy is that charges made fraudulently are normally reversible for cards in good standing.

But we're straying from the heart of what this thread was made to do. Can we not just, for once, get along enough to just try, instead of decrying that it won't work, that people deserve these bans? It's 5 minutes of time I'm asking for, not forever.

[Kailea]

Re: Rally 'round to send Square-Enix a message!

The only nice thing is that is may vary from bank to bank. Visa states that you still have the Zero Liability in effect so long as the bank backs that as well. I'm trying to find out what my bank's policy is, but it's definitely another strike against SE using this service, considering the standard policy is that charges made fraudulently are normally reversible for cards in good standing.

But we're straying from the heart of what this thread was made to do. Can we not just, for once, get along enough to just try, instead of decrying that it won't work, that people deserve these bans? It's 5 minutes of time I'm asking for, not forever.

Thats the thing, we dont know the record history of most of the bans. We dont know any info that SE has access to. We can not really say this or that, off of info we dont have.

[Pawkeshup]

Re: Rally 'round to send Square-Enix a message!

And that right there is part of the issue. You need to spend your time arguing just to learn why you were banned. Aksa has already shared her why, and there are several of those cases that have appeared on Alla. Others were banned for selling to certain NPCs frequented by gilsellers.

The simple fact is that SE has just placed this huge wall of silence for far too long. Hell, there's a maintenance tomorrow, for what we have no idea. Any other MMO company tells their customers that.

FFXIV is coming, and hopefully it will give them pause to consider that we could spoil their launch for it by poisoning the well, so to speak. If we can get some major sites outside the FFXI community to put this out there, SE has to listen and respond, or risk loads more bad press.