Merrit Parties...

[Takelli]

Re: Merrit Parties...

3 SAM using Polearm spamming 2k+ Penta Thrusts = dead bird in 2-10 seconds. I don't have FRAPs or I'd show you some of the insanity I've seen from the really pimped out SAM on Seraph.

I actually saw a youtube video with an all Drg party on Colibri in West Ronfurau (S), that was killing fairly fast. Not that fast, but still, pretty damn fast. If I can fish it up, I'd post it here.

@ Grizlebeard. Everyone wants to reach lvl 75, and have maxed merrits ASAP. People don't realize that they could take time, and explore some more, and try to have some fun in the game, instead of reaching max lvl, and max merrits asap. I don't know of any other camps that can get you a lot of exp super fast, but there are probably plenty out there that you could get like 20k/hour which isn't all that bad at all.

[Ketaru]

Re: Merrit Parties...

@ Grizlebeard. Everyone wants to reach lvl 75, and have maxed merrits ASAP. People don't realize that they could take time, and explore some more, and try to have some fun in the game, instead of reaching max lvl, and max merrits asap. I don't know of any other camps that can get you a lot of exp super fast, but there are probably plenty out there that you could get like 20k/hour which isn't all that bad at all.

Explore? What's there to look for anymore? More ??? points that say "There is nothing out of the ordinary here." when obviously there is?

[Takelli]

Re: Merrit Parties...

Explore? What's there to look for anymore? More ??? points that say "There is nothing out of the ordinary here." when obviously there is?

There are people who follow EVERYTHING to the book, and go only to places where they have to go, and thats it. they don't enter zones that can be used for other stuff. People will follow others, and thats why I said that. A lot of the newer players who are able to explore, don't explore because they follow teh "vetern" players, and do as they say. So when they hit 75, and its time to merrit, they don't want to do anything else besides Colibri, and then when the players that "helped" them leaves, they teach the newer ones, areas that they shouldn't go to becase its "bad exp". But, those places that are "Bad Exp" are actually used, you might actually find its "good exp" rather than what everyone else is saying. And if the party set up is right, you can get pretty damn good exp.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Merrit Parties...

But "good" xp is subjective. You say that 20k/hr is good exp. And up until 75, I'd be inclined to agree with you, but at 75 that's average, and I'm not interested in average for merits. And there are a lot at 75 who agree with me, that 20k/hr is average at best and not acceptable for meriting.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Merrit Parties...

@ Grizlebeard. Everyone wants to reach lvl 75, and have maxed merrits ASAP. People don't realize that they could take time, and explore some more, and try to have some fun in the game, instead of reaching max lvl, and max merrits asap. I don't know of any other camps that can get you a lot of exp super fast, but there are probably plenty out there that you could get like 20k/hour which isn't all that bad at all.

I appreciate what you're saying and it's applaudable that you would try to look around for alternative camps. That said, I've been playing on and off since 2003 now and have seen pretty much every square inch of every zone and have found through experience where is good and bad to exp or have asked peoples' opinions on the forums and in-game and judged for myself.

Merit grinding is a chore, people want them but as with exp parties, unless you're always with friends and just shooting shit and casually killing, you generally want to maximise your merit gain thereby minimising time spent doing it and cost of consumables used. 20k/hour is 3 hours to earn me 6 merits as opposed to 2 hours in a bird camp at 30k/hour. I'd sooner have that extra hour to do something else with.

[Takelli]

Re: Merrit Parties...

I understand that its a chore. I have yet to do it as I have 60 rdm atm, and still leveling my subs. (Hoping to get Drk, and Rdm to 75 before FFXIV.) When I first played as my Sam and got it to 75 (I kept syncing to lesser Colibri, and got about 2 lvls a day when I hit 60 as sam), I got to 75, and I got to it so fast, I got bored of it, and I quit the game for some time. I did some Dynamis, and some Campaign, and so on, but it just got boring. But that being said, in a normal 3 hour party at 20k/hour, I don't mind getting 2 merrits/hour. Its not as fast as possible, but thats 6 merrits a day. Yea, it may not be the 9 merrits a day, but at least I am not rushing it.

Rushing to get everything can be boring. If you have fun doing something, would you rather take longer to do it, or would you want to get it done. I talk to most of my party memebers when I am in a party, and enjoy partying when I am leveling.

<Edit>

As Aksannyi has said, good exp is subjective, and it does differ from person to person. 20k/hour is good for me. 2 merrits and hour? Yea, not so bad IMO.

[Ketaru]

Re: Merrit Parties...

That the scope of the game has gotten much better, in a way, has made people raise their standards about parties. Years ago, it was "Suck it up or continue seeking." These days, you literally always have something better to do if you don't feel like sticking to a party that makes you unhappy. Kicking BRDs or CORs because you don't like their attitude? While you may think they regret it later because you actually got decent EXP by your standards, trust me, these days it's not their loss. If they couldn't find another party, they still have so many other things to fall back on. I'm sure the surge in Campaign isn't just because of Union. Some people who have fallen behind on their medals and ranks and AN want their new items. Or Assault. Or ISNM. or BCNM. Or KSNM. Or ANNM. Or if the timing is right, Besieged. Or now, getting FoV tabs to try out their hand at the new fangled augments.

With so much to do these days, it should come as little wonder that so many people have an "All or nothing" approach to getting merits these days.

And it's not rushing. It's wanting to see your character grow.
Beast Affinity capped
3+4+5+5+5 = 22 merits. 220,000 limit points. (!)
That doesn't even begin to address Sic and Reward recast. Or that my RDM and SCH need merits too. Or worse for some people, not meritting at all. Simply replenishing their EXP buffer for next they must die several times in dynamis again!

[Malacite]

Re: Merrit Parties...

Mamool Ja Staging point is as good or better than birds if you camp in the middle because you won't run out of mobs. Just gotta be extra fast on the skoffins >.>

At Colibri camp, even in the middle it is very easy to kill too fast and run yourself out of mobs.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Merrit Parties...

Hate

Skoffins

But yeah, that camp is all kinds of tits as long as your RDM knows how to Dispel and Silence. And Paralyna.

And yeah, running out of mobs is a problem, sometimes you need the entire area to yourself so you can pull from the middle and the bottom to keep the chains.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Merrit Parties...

If anything, Cor/Whm is detrimental to your exp gain. While they stand around with a Light Staff on their back waiting to toss out one or two heals before exhausting their MP a real Cor is meleeing/shooting for TP and smashing out Slug Shots to make the mobs die faster.

Was a JP party; my BRD was the only NA. They like to use COR/WHM. (I like a party to have two sources of cure as well, so didn't mind trading some offensive power for more curing power.)

From the data I could capture, that COR performed 38.98% of the direct curing, and all the Regen. Your estimate of "toss out one or two heals before exhausting their MP" is way off the mark.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Merrit Parties...

What the fuck were the other mages doing that the COR had to pick up so much slack? Holy shit. If I ever parsed so low on healing that COR did 38% of the healing, I'd be kicked from the ls for being lazy and useless.

I realize RDMs and WHMs have other shit to cast but dude, I've never let my support jobs pick up that much of the healing. That is absolutely wack. Not knocking you Itazura. I just can't believe the healers were doing little enough that the COR parsed so high on healing.

Yeah, it's a different playstyle, but gearing for MP on a job which primary role isn't to heal is such a waste, and it seems like he'd have to be geared with MP in order to cure so much. The COR/WHM thing is just something about the JPs that I'll never, ever understand.

[Icemage]

Re: Merrit Parties...

A Lot of people here think that the only monster to merit off is Colibri. There are other monsters besides those, that probbly don't hit as hard, and don't have pecking Flurry. They might have a higher def, but that can be handled by a DiaII, or a higher Attack. BioIII that shit. But everyone is saying Colibri, Colibri, Colibri. There are PLENTY of other monsters that can work just as fine if they have teh right Enfeebles on them. Everyone here has mentioned only Colibri. No one has yet to mention anothe monster that can work just as well, or almost as well as Colibri.

Uh, no. Colibri are mentioned because they are the WEAKEST enemy you can potentially merit on at 75.

EVERYTHING else hits harder. Mamool Ja. Trolls. Treants. Puddings. Whatever.

And enfeebles? Surely you jest. At most I'll toss out Silence, Paralyze I/II, and/or Slow I/II and only on especially ornery enemies who like to use fun things like self-haste or spells (typically Mamool Ja spellcasters). I also like tossing Paralyze on Skoffins to avoid unpleasant things like Dread Shriek > Deadly Drive/Radiant Breath > multi-attack deaths. I have never, ever, EVER used Bio III in a merit party (and yes I have the spell - but the MP cost is beyond exorbitant).


Icemage

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Merrit Parties...

What the fuck were the other mages doing that the COR had to pick up so much slack? Holy shit. If I ever parsed so low on healing that COR did 38% of the healing, I'd be kicked from the ls for being lazy and useless.

"The other mage" was spending MP on Cure (61.01% of direct curing), Hasting (x6), Refresh (x2 + occasionally on DRK).

With a RDM and COR working together, they can afford to cure bomb anyone under threat at the moment, so definitely a bit over over-curing, but that's how Japanese players like it on Ifrit. Try to imagine a merit party where no one is ever in orange HP (except the BRD who has a bit of trouble pulling at a fast pace and keeping up Utsusemi), and no one stays in yellow HP for more than a few seconds. That's how JPs like every party. (Heck, it's was actually kinda rare to see a JP player use Regen so much; they usually just prefer to bomb everyone to 100.00% HP.)

Yeah, it's a different playstyle, but gearing for MP on a job which primary role isn't to heal is such a waste, and it seems like he'd have to be geared with MP in order to cure so much. The COR/WHM thing is just something about the JPs that I'll never, ever understand.

It's a different mentality, where safety is prized over damage output. And, really, with Evoker's Roll and Refresh, I don't think any COR would need that much MP gear to cure.

I do go as BRD/WHM for some Dynamis runs, and I always do a fair amount of curing even though I don't have MP gear unless you count BRD gears which happen to have MP along with CHR or skill, and my 4 MP merits. COR/WHM probably isn't so different.

* * *

This talk about jobs whose "primary role isn't to heal" reminded me of a Yhoator Jungle party with mixed NA and JP players, and a JP WAR decided on to go /WHM and chuck Pineapple Juice. I think we had a RDM and a SMN or something, but the RDM was a total idiot, and the WAR seemed to know that from a previous run-in.

I was like 'Huh?' at first, but it turned out the WAR helped backup tanked, backup cured, waked up people if the mandy was on him or if he had poison on, and even switched weapon to SC with me (which job was I on? I forgot. lol.), while the melee RDM cured no one and was a burden since he's always slept along with the front line jobs.

That WAR turned a party which was going to be extremely lousy (due to the terrible RDM) into a party which was workable, and even fun.

(Would've been even better if the JP WAR could've convinced the NA leader to boot the RDM and replace him before heading out, but I guess the language barrier and tendency toward politeness prevented that.)

[Malacite]

Re: Merrit Parties...

>.> Why did the TY button disappear? I want to thank Ice for that post.

And we just have clashing views on merit parties Aky

The JP are obsessed with /NIN and as you said, COR/WHM while we (well, the best of us) prefer to wtfpwn stuff before they even have a chance to do anything.

You ever see a pimped out MNK/WAR with a full counter set up in merits? It's pure evil until he gets whacked by a multi-hit WS, and even then there's still a chance of guarding it. Hell, a friend of mine has guarded spike flail. /NIN is for pussies/crappy pick up parties (in the context of merit parties)

[Aksannyi]

Re: Merrit Parties...

Yeah like I said in my earlier post, so many people are terrified to let someone sit at 90% health for a while. 90% health for me, on RDM/WHM, is like 850-900 HP, so it would still take quite a number of hits to knock me down, let alone a DD. I let them sit there so that a fully powered Curaga can hit all of the DDs and efficiently cure everyone instead of bombing one person.

It is quite a cultural difference. I've seen plenty of people get hit freakishly hard in some situations, but Colibri are fairly weak and I'd have to either be really slow or just not paying attention to not at least get a Cure III off before someone else can grab hate on a mob, if someone's really getting owned that hard.

I just don't get the JPs sometimes lol. It's their thing, but I won't merit with them because they're too scaredy cat-ish.