FFXI Reasonable Doubt

[Aksannyi]

I was asked to post this on behalf of a friend.

I know that the bannings have been beaten to death here and at BG and everywhere else, but I think if this even has the slightest chance, you might as well put your name on it.

Basically it's asking SE to look again at the bannings, as some of the people who got hit with them really didn't deserve the permanent ban they got. I'm not really going to argue that whole thing again, but because I know some people who didn't deserve perm, I'm posting this on their behalf and asking you humbly to sign if you think SE should take another look.

FFXI Banned Account = Reasonable Doubt Petition

I know it's a lolonlinepetition but well, worth a shot, right?

Thanks gaiz.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXI Reasonable Doubt

Here's the thing:

If SE goes back on any of the bannings, it gives players leverage to question other actions they take in the future and weakens SE's stance and the ToS.

Sonomaa of BG, FusionX of PFA, Elmer the Pointy of JP Button as well as Aniero and DavyJones of LBR w/ other guest Hyrist spoke at length about the matter. You can listen to it here:

Limit Breaking News 10 - Jan 22nd LM-17 (streaming link, btw)

One of the big points was why reexamining it would be bad for SE. They made no excuses for the timing of the bans SE made, but all the same it wouldn't be smart on SE's part to reverse anything, which is why they say they can ban you for any reason.

Another part of the show was the emphasis on SE's lack of communication on various levels with the western player base. I rarely come here endorsing episodes, but I think this one is worth a listen.

[Aksannyi]

Re: FFXI Reasonable Doubt

I've meant to listen to that when I don't have a huge migraine. Which isn't now. :/

I agree that it's probably not going to do any good, and that it probably won't do anything. But I figured it's at least worth a shot, and I did promise to post it for someone who I really don't think deserves a perma ban.

[Van'derfel]

Re: FFXI Reasonable Doubt

Why don't you petition Omar al-Bashir too? I don't think the people over there deserve what they're getting, do you?

[Feba]

Re: FFXI Reasonable Doubt

If SE goes back on any of the bannings, it gives players leverage to question other actions they take in the future

This is sort of like saying "It's a bad idea to give criminals trials, because it calls arrests into question".

This is a bad idea because it's sending the message that it's ok to cheat, as long as you're really really loud. It's far closer to an 'arguing with terrorists' problem than an 'admitting you might be wrong' problem.

[Malacite]

Re: FFXI Reasonable Doubt

I agree with BBQ here. If SE makes even one exception, it will start a backlash and they'll lose a lot of credibility. And they have no reason to repeal any of them;

You knowingly broke the rules, tough shit. This is why I have never used any 3rd party tools like Windower.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXI Reasonable Doubt

Feba, they're not exactly my words. Try listening to the podcast first, I just paraphrased the overall message on that particular angle of the issue

To spin the example another way - forum titles are viewed differently here than they are on LBR.

Its not a big deal here because you can make your own. On LBR we do it to signify who's a contributor to LBR - in whichever way that is - and the standard user. They're all subject to the same rules, though, no execptions.

At one point we had general users getting real fussy because they didn't have special forum titles. You guys know me, I'm all LOLtitles whenever that shit comes up. I don't see the big deal, I don't see the emotional value in it other apparently do.

Perhaps people just want to feel like stars. Sites like PFA and LBR put various members of the community into the spotlight. I remember the time I changed a title as a personal favor to a friend. People threw a total shitstorm over that. I never did it again. It was seen as her getting some extra-special recognition they weren't getting.

If SE goes back on any one ban - other banned players are going to go "Well, what did that player have that I don't?"

That's exactly what's going to happen. That's why there aren't going to be any "appeals" heard.

Or maybe I'll just put it in terms you can really understand:

You know how Obama reevaluated some of his nominations for certain positions because certain individuals had been cutting corners on their taxes. Some would say it was a move to save face, but Obama didn't want anyone who appeared to be a weak link or a special exception in his circle. If that's how he wants to say he screwed up, I can respect that, though.

Wouldn't you?

Not to mention if he had let them through, is political rivals would have a field day with it. He played it smart.

[Aksannyi]

Re: FFXI Reasonable Doubt

I agree with BBQ here. If SE makes even one exception, it will start a backlash and they'll lose a lot of credibility. And they have no reason to repeal any of them;

You knowingly broke the rules, tough shit. This is why I have never used any 3rd party tools like Windower.

To be fair, this is for the people who were probably unaware of what was happening. There are a few (and I do mean FEW) who didn't know what was going on when alliances were broken and whatnot, and I can't say that it's fair for them to be banned.

However, like I said on BG, I didn't expect a great reception to this, but I promised I'd put this out there on forums because my friend asked me to.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: FFXI Reasonable Doubt

My first reaction on seeing this thread "OH SHIT NOT AGAIN ><". My personal opinion is that its over and done, let it be. If they start re-examining random cases and turning over their decisions, they are just undermining their authority. It would create more havoc than there is already.

Fyi, I know this is going to open up this dead horse discussion again so keep it civil. If it gets off track, the thread will be closed.

[Balfree]

Re: FFXI Reasonable Doubt

To be fair, this is for the people who were probably unaware of what was happening. There are a few (and I do mean FEW) who didn't know what was going on when alliances were broken and whatnot, and I can't say that it's fair for them to be banned.

However, like I said on BG, I didn't expect a great reception to this, but I promised I'd put this out there on forums because my friend asked me to.

Problem is, how are they gonna prove that?

If SE decides to unban those folks, the ones who did it intentionally will also plead innocence.

Its not fair for those that really didn't know, a shame, and I'm sorry for them - intention can't be proven though so why not try see it from SE's perspective?

[Feba]

Re: FFXI Reasonable Doubt

The thing is, SE either monitored these players or read old logs. Those who were bystanders to duping may well have gotten banned for other things.

[dirtyclown]

Re: FFXI Reasonable Doubt

People who break the terms of service and get banned have all sorts of evidence against them due to text logs of everything that happens in the game being available for casual viewing by GMs or members of the SS that Square brought back from the dead to do their bidding. If there was no evidence of cheating then the people who were "wrongfully banned" would still be here. But they're not.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXI Reasonable Doubt

The thing is, SE either monitored these players or read old logs. Those who were bystanders to duping may well have gotten banned for other things.

Which is something most of us have been saying all along.

As I've said elsewhere, most of those involved on Titan were no strangers to seeing the interior of Gael.

[Mhurron]

Re: FFXI Reasonable Doubt

worth a shot, right?

No, it's stupid. This isn't a criminal proceeding so surprisingly, the tenets of a criminal proceeding do not exist. This is an attempt by people who have broken the rules to get around punishment.

[Kailea]

Re: FFXI Reasonable Doubt

to all that say "some did not know what was going on" I call complete and utter BSx10

Even if you did not know the other PTs where getting the drops.... was in not odd that the PTs broke alliance like that, SOMEONE would have said something to tip off the "innocent player"

I would have drop PT dropped/refused anything I won and called a GM right away.

now like its been said, this is dead as hell and lol @ online unbanning petitions ;p