Pandy Warden Killed last night!

[Rodin]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

And yet why do you feel you need my approval? Why can't you simply say, "Well, you think that hate logging, which was the essential keystone to the strategy to defeat PW, was an exploit, that's fine. We don't think that however and will continue to do so" Why do I have to conform to YOUR beliefs? I'm not asking you to conform to mine, I am however letting you know why I consider this an exploit and why I'm not ok with the way they killed this mob. Used here or there, I'm more or less ok with it, I may not be happy, but I'm not going to raise a fuss. But when it's used as the cornerstone to take down some hard mob? Yeah, I'm not going to be so quiet.

Well, TBH, this is the only proven method so far to kill this HNM. 90% of the people who are complaining about logging to prevent an AF Wipe, are just hating. What I'm wanting is people to stop hating, and start congratulating Apathy on being able to take down this mob, and give us insight and tactics on how to take it down for ourselves. They did it without exploiting things like speed hacks, and POS warping. So they logged out and logged back in to reset hate and avoid getting hit. They did not blatantly violate any form of the ToS in order to do so.

Let me ask another question, how do you kill Kirin or KB?

Do you use Gravity and Kite them? If you look at SE's response to the use of Gravity on mobs, it hasn't been very good. Especially considering they nerfed the use of Gravity on HNM mobs LONG before they nerfed the Magic Accuracy or use of Soul Eater.

Yet people still kill Kirin and KB this way. (If you don't have any Kraken DRKs)

You can look at that as an "exploit" of the game mechanics, but many (including me), see that as a legitimate way to kill the NM.

To me, it all comes down to hating. People don't like the fact that they weren't the first to kill the mob, nor to think of the tactics and strategy to kill the NM.

I say, grats Apathy.

And to all you haters:

Find another way to kill it, and I'll shut up.

[Caspian]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

You're out of your mind.

The Wall of Justice was a method that prevented AV from fighting back. It may have been a rougher method of doing things, but it worked. In the same vein, logging hate is a method that prevents PW from fighting back.

So, PW kills himself if you stay logged out long enough? Then you just log back in and collect the loot? Because I'm fairly certain you have to log back in and continue fighting him.
Is what this LS did ideal? I'd hardly think so. Do I think the dev's intended for that to be the way to nullify his AF? I doubt it, greatly. If what Vyuru expects is right, and their whole LS is over in the BG forums on their knees pleasuring eachother, then they should probably stand up and start working on a more efficient way of killing him. But the impression I've been getting from a few people's posts is that this kill shouldn't count at all, and I think thats pretty shitty.

Does anyone else remember a thread from a few years ago where there were people saying that kiting a mob was an exploit? This thread kinda reminds me of that.

[hexx]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Well, TBH, this is the only proven method so far to kill this HNM. 90% of the people who are complaining about logging to prevent an AF Wipe, are just hating. What I'm wanting is people to stop hating, and start congratulating Apathy on being able to take down this mob, and give us insight and tactics on how to take it down for ourselves. They did it without exploiting things like speed hacks, and POS warping. So they logged out and logged back in to reset hate and avoid getting hit. They did not blatantly violate any form of the ToS in order to do so.

Let me ask another question, how do you kill Kirin or KB?

Do you use Gravity and Kite them? If you look at SE's response to the use of Gravity on mobs, it hasn't been very good. Especially considering they nerfed the use of Gravity on HNM mobs LONG before they nerfed the Magic Accuracy or use of Soul Eater.

Yet people still kill Kirin and KB this way. (If you don't have any Kraken DRKs)

You can look at that as an "exploit" of the game mechanics, but many (including me), see that as a legitimate way to kill the NM.

To me, it all comes down to hating. People don't like the fact that they weren't the first to kill the mob, nor to think of the tactics and strategy to kill the NM.

I say, grats Apathy.

And to all you haters:

Find another way to kill it, and I'll shut up.

QFT preach on brotha!

In all seriousness, Apathy beat PW, sure, using unconventional means, but a win is a win. They did NOT violate the user agreement, the did NOT use any sort of hacks, the did NOT do anything that would normally get you banned by a GM. Want some cheese to go with that whine? Come on now, if yall wanna hate so much, go kill PW with a so called "legit" strat then come and show us and Ill gladly eat my words as will other people here. Its like saying that kite/grav/sleep/nuke strats are also exploits. Hell, if thats how yall see it, mass-sleeping mobs in dynamis is also an exploit, because based on your reasoning, the entire LS should be fighting all them mobs at once, right?

And please dont get me started on gear swaps being an exploit cuz thats just an excuse gimp mofos use to not buy the gear they need to maximize their output. Buncha dumbasses

[Feba]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

There's a big difference between using abilities that SE PUTS IN THE GAME, and a system function which was NOT designed to interact with gameplay in any way, shape, or form.

nerfing a tactic doesn't mean they find it to be an exploit, just that they find it to be too powerful. Gravity is a great example; they don't think that it's an EXPLOIT, that's WHY THEY HAVE IT SLOW THINGS DOWN IN THE FIRST PLACE. They just don't like it being used TOO much.

[hexx]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

If its not an exploit, then why mess with it? Now you're changing things around Feba. First yall claim its an exploit, and now its not, but its not the way that game mechanic was SUPPOSED to be used? No disrespect, but who the fuck are YOU to say how a game mechanic should and shouldnt be used??

Hell, make it simple, dont mess with the game mechanic, just make these popped mega NMs to be instanced, so that the moment you trade in the pop item(s) you are immediately transferred to a separate battlefield with the necessary restrictions. Or hell, make it optional, for those who want TRUE bragging rights, they can use the instanced version of the fight, and those who just want the easy way out can do it as they see fit. Pure and simple.

[Feba]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

First yall claim its an exploit, and now its not,

Learn to fucking read.

but its not the way that game mechanic was SUPPOSED to be used?

Logging out isn't even a goddamn game mechanic. It's a system mechanic, because they KINDA CAN'T HAVE YOU ONLINE 24/7

[hexx]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Learn to fucking read.



Logging out isn't even a goddamn game mechanic. It's a system mechanic, because they KINDA CAN'T HAVE YOU ONLINE 24/7

1. Watch it asshole, I wasnt disrespecting you, or is it that YOU cant read?
2. Its being USED as a game mechanic, otherwise we wouldnt be discussing its validity now would we? And ummm.......tell that to those "hardcore" ffxi players who NEVER log off dude, theyre online......you guessed it......24/7.

[Sabaron]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

...No disrespect, but who the fuck are YOU to say how a game mechanic should and shouldnt be used??

(Please note that I'm not replying to the topic itself but just the quote above)

ROFL...

I like how you use the phrase "No disrespect" and then use an overtly disrespectful phrase "who the fuck are you" directly thereafter. I can just imagine your head weaving back and forth with undue smugness.... Seriously...

ROFL...

[ShepardG]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

koogelmander!

[Malacite]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Tiddly Wank.

[Vyuru]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

No disrespect, but who the fuck are YOU to say how a game mechanic should and shouldnt be used??

/rolls eyes

Makes me think of that one Dilbert where they find out that so long as they say "No disrespect, but" they can say whatever they want to their boss.

They did it without exploiting things like speed hacks, and POS warping.

The problem is that those are not exploits, those are hacks and additional programs added to the game that should not be there in the first place. If the Dev team hasn't put it in it is a hack, the severity of the hack is dependent on what it is.

An exploit is something like the wall of justice, CS immunity in mission fights, only one member getting warped down to fight Diabolos while the rest nuke/shoot from on high, etc.

You cannot create an exploit, it has to be something already in the game. Hacks are something brought in from outside the game. Big difference.

start congratulating Apathy on being able to take down this mob, and give us insight and tactics on how to take it down for ourselves

Yet you and I both know that no one, or a very few LS spread out across many servers, is going to try anything BUT the way they just showed that it can be beaten. I'd be willing to bet that a good 95% of the FF population don't try new things or experiment. Case in point, how many LS where saving their PW pop items until "someone else" found a workable idea?

They did NOT violate the user agreement

Isn't there a clause in the ToA about not exploiting exploits? This is why I thought a bunch of people got banned when CoP came out for buying an item from a merchant and then selling it back to the merchant for a higher price than they bought it for. Some piece of Barone equipment as I recall.

Hell, if thats how yall see it, mass-sleeping mobs in dynamis is also an exploit, because based on your reasoning, the entire LS should be fighting all them mobs at once, right?

Absurd example, we have Sleepga spells for a reason.

And please dont get me started on gear swaps being an exploit cuz thats just an excuse gimp mofos use to not buy the gear they need to maximize their output. Buncha dumbasses

Way to offer the olive branch, not that you didn't mean any disrespect by the words mofo or dumbass of course.

[Szkol]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Here's my $.02


It's not an exploit, or a cheat, or in any way against the ToS. Their victory was legitimate, I think, as far as rules go.

~However~

I think you'll find that a great deal of players find this victory dishonorable. You can liken this to any sort of competitive situation where the victor, while staying within the rules, won the competition in a way that was NEVER intended. I'll say it once, Logoff, while being a "legitimate strategy" according to the rules, is NOT, has NEVER been, and NEVER WILL BE intended as a way to win a fight, and YOU KNOW IT. If you're actually arguing that logoff is a game mechanic (it is a SYSTEM mechanic, and is not game PLAY) then you forfeit your right to post a valid argument in this discussion.

You can liken it to this- imagine you're running one of those wilderness Iron-man style races, marathon, mountain-climbing, and swimming through jungles and rivers in madagascar or something. You carry with you a backpack which the judges issue to all the players. In this backpack, you're allowed to carry all the gear you need to complete the course, such as dry sock and shoes, climbing gear, etc. You're running the race just like everyone else, and you all arrive at the river portion of the race. Everyone stuffs their clothes into their backpacks and starts swimming. You rip your clothes apart for thread, and build a small boat by lashing together materials laying next to the riverside, and you rip apart your backpack and use the material to make a paddle, and proceed to paddle your way to victory.

You broke no rules, you didn't cheat, you didn't MPK the other contestants so you could win. The problem is, you turned a contest of brute strength and endurance into a contest of strength, endurance, cunning, and resourcefulness. While this is still quite an admirable achievement, it's not really keeping with the spirit of the contest. The other contestants came expecting a race, not Survivorman.


I'll state again for those who can't read (read: are dense) that we all understand that no exploit was used, no ToS were breached. It's generally understood that login/logout, while being effective for this fight, is not the way the fight is meant to be won.

[Rodin]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

I'll state again for those who can't read (read: are dense) that we all understand that no exploit was used, no ToS were breached. It's generally understood that login/logout, while being effective for this fight, is not the way the fight is meant to be won.

I found out the how to kill AV, it's not the way you're supposed to kill it, but it'll definitely kill it. Just need a RNG with one of these:



The RNG can one shot it from Tavnazian Safehold. Doesn't even have to have Sea Access.

[Caspian]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

/rolls eyes

Makes me think of that one Dilbert where they find out that so long as they say "No disrespect, but" they can say whatever they want to their boss.

Kind of like adding "bless their heart" to the end of an insult?

Vyuru: do you really not think people will work to find a better and faster way of doing the fight? It may be a few months, but I really think eventually a way to lower the damage taken or a way to recover from it faster will be found.
Hell, whats the range of his AF? If they have time to log off could a large portion of the alliance not just run out of range until he uses it, then run back in and immediately start fighting him again?

[Van'derfel]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Hell, whats the range of his AF? If they have time to log off could a large portion of the alliance not just run out of range until he uses it, then run back in and immediately start fighting him again?

that's what i was thinking.
doesn't logging off take 30 seconds?