Pandy Warden Killed last night!

[Tickmeoff]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Then why not use the SE Windower? I've been using it for years and haven't had any problems.

It's been available for one year but you've been using it for years?

[Ellipses]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Oh, psh to that. If you're doing those races you should know the quickest routes already. Since draw distance doesn't affect mobs or PCs, the only things you'd be able to see would be things that were already there.

I know the quickest routes generally, but with DD active it's a lot easier to spot landmarks earlier on. I don't have to know the routes as well as I would otherwise.

To me, it's just a matter of degrees. The fact that Draw Distance gives such a small advantage doesn't make it not an advantage. I'm not arguing against Draw Distance, or TParty, or Recast.

I just think saying that a small advantage isn't an advantage only muddies the issue.

Of course, at this point, there aren't many left who aren't fairly entrenched either for or against any of this, so I'm likely mostly masturbating.

It's been available for one year but you've been using it for years?

Hax!

[eticket109]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

I can explain why to use non-SE windower in two words: draw distance. Man this game can look so much more beautiful than SE lets on.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

//cure5 Whomever may be faster than /ma "Cure V" <something> but hitting Alt-# and then F1-6 for a target is just as quick.

And there is a reason you use //cure, because targeting someone when they blink is a pain in the ass. So while I'm trying to do it the "old fashioned" way, there is someone typing it out and bingo! So ya, HUGE advantage. You know how you test stuff, well I've tested this so I'm confident I know what I'm talking about.

<Stuff about Ventrillo>

Quit derailing by talking about Ventrillo. I've said more than a few times the topic at hand is Windower Programs and logging hate to avoid an attack. (And just to satisfy your curiosity, no I do not use Vent anymore but yes I did in the past.)

Some deflection and re-railing. You focus on the parts that are convenient to you and ignore some of the statements that I make as you see fit. For instance, you've ignored more than once now that I've never said FFXI is a bad game as a whole, it just has a shitty UI, just to save face on your argument that I should quit and show them with my money. I'm not quitting over a UI when the rest of the game is enjoyable and I probably wouldn't find another MMO that would float my boat as much as this one - but that doesn't mean I'm not going to make the switch if there's something that makes the UI more amenable.

Because you lost the entire point I was trying to make when I said that. I said

Like someone told me, if you don't like it then show them with your money and stop playing the game.

in response to your:

Finding out how much time is left on your recast timer or what a party member's TP is is NOT a challenge or objective presented by the game, so it shouldn't be a challenge to find these things out. There's no need to make the player go through extra hurdles so they can perform basic gameplay actions unless the game is A) poorly designed or B) the developers are looking for a quick way to increase the game's difficulty artificially.

Now if a game is so poorly designed and difficult to play that you have to cheat at it, why play it? If I bought a rpg and found out that I'd have to use a game shark/game genie or some cheat device in order to enjoy it, I wouldn't play it. Same thing. So no, there was no deflection or de-railing, you started the comparison by criticizing the game.

[Ziero]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

It's been available for one year but you've been using it for years?

Seriously? It feels so much longer then that ._.

I know the quickest routes generally, but with DD active it's a lot easier to spot landmarks earlier on. I don't have to know the routes as well as I would otherwise.

To me, it's just a matter of degrees. The fact that Draw Distance gives such a small advantage doesn't make it not an advantage. I'm not arguing against Draw Distance, or TParty, or Recast.

I just think saying that a small advantage isn't an advantage only muddies the issue.

Eh, it's just with that particular plug-in, in that particular instance, it's a debatable as even being an advantage in any way. It's almost like saying dat swaps are a gameplay advantage because they make ugly armor more bearable to look at. It's a personal thing that would, when measured, have no real affect on actual game-play. At least imo...with this specific app.

But things like TPparty and such do infact give a slight advantage, because they help reduce the number of button presses needed for certain actions. However, as Armando pointed out, things like voice chat and such do the same thing and certainly aren't cheats. Things like those are too muddled in the grey for me to damn or praise them.

Of course, at this point, there aren't many left who aren't fairly entrenched either for or against any of this, so I'm likely mostly masturbating.

Since when is that a bad thing?

Hax!

*Gets banned*

[Malacite]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

<,< Armando wins the thread for injecting Richter Belmont and 2 of my fav Castlevania songs ^^

Whoever was playing in that video was pretty damned good, though I don't understand why he didn't use a single item crash.

[ShepardG]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

I had a question guy's and gals:

This may have been answered, but I was curious as to how "Botting" a HNM works? It's slightly off topic i suppose, but I was under the impression that SE had fixed all the crazy bot claiming of NM's almost 2 years ago. This recent banning of folks has spawned all kinds of crazy threads, and alot of the people that got perma or temp banned, were also accused of Bot camping Land kings and what not.

I post in here since we've been discussing the SE windower and the 3rd party app Windower.net, and i'm under the impression that their using a plugin with the 3rd party windower.net program??? I don't know though...does it just spam provoke on fafnir or something? I'm confused


And i'm gonna try and slip this one in under the radar:

What the fuck does the following forum speak mean::
FTFY
Q_Qing
ld;ar

Shepard Garrett is a noob...

[Armando]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

TGM: This is going nowhere. I resign. Windower is cheating and I cheat by using it.

FTFY
Q_Qing
ld;ar

FTFY = (I) Fixed That For You, referring to the quoted segment above it.
Q_Qing = Derived from the smiley Q_Q, which represents a crying face. Q_Qing thus means crying about something. Probably a result of too many people actually saying "Que Que" out loud. Also see: QQ More.
ld;ar = No frigging clue. You sure you're not mistaking it for tl;dr (too long; didn't read)?

[ShepardG]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Yeah, I ment tl;dr. Thanks for the info though

Shepard garrett's noob level is droping....wait....he just/still is talking in third person on a internet forum page...it's back up...nevermind

[DakAttack]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

People used bots that would spam abilities that could claim monsters, often before the monster's model was even loaded onto the players' screens. SE added a small window while the monster spawned causing it to be unclaimable for around three seconds, so that everybody had a fair chance at claiming, but people just adjusted their bots to the window.

QQing is something they say in WoW, it's a shame it didn't stay there, but I guess it's as clever as ;_;. They have lame rhymes that go along with it, though.

[Armando]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Semicolon Semicolon?

[Karinya]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

//cure5 Whomever may be faster than /ma "Cure V" <something> but hitting Alt-# and then F1-6 for a target is just as quick. Using aliases I don't have to keep my macros organized as I get more of them.

And that's an *advantage*, because macros are a limited resource, just as much as inventory slots or MP are. If there were a NM that dropped extra macro slots (per page obviously) I would be camping it right now, and probably so would half the players who play this game. And that's not even counting the macro slots that have more lines per macro, and functions that normal macros don't have at all.

I'm sure baseball players find bats with cork in them more convenient compared to the standard interface that makes it harder to get the ball where you want it. There may not be any place you can hit the ball with a cork bat that you couldn't have hit it with a plain wood bat, but the *convenience* of getting the hit you want is just so much better. You're still performing the same action, but with a more useful tool.

But as long as most players are using plain wood, umpires and the commissioner of baseball still agree, cork bats are cheating. Having a more useful tool than the other players have is an unfair advantage even if the *possible* results you could obtain are still the same.

Competition in FFXI is usually more indirect than it is in baseball, but it's still there. (Golf might work better but I'm not going to rewrite the post now.)


P.S. You can use vent while playing FFXI on a PS2 or X360, as long as you have any computer with internet access. Which might be a mac, or an old computer that can't run FFXI, or an old computer that can't run FFXI and vent at the same time. It's true that there probably are *some* people who don't have *any* computer they could run vent on while playing, though, so you still have to fall back on the ToS argument or say that *anything* outside the basic client - even calling your friend on the phone - is cheating because some people don't have it. Since SE is the equivalent of the umpires and the commissioner of baseball mentioned above, I think the ToS argument is actually pretty good, but you apparently disagree.

[Feba]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

I'm sure baseball players find bats with cork in them more convenient compared to the standard interface that makes it harder to get the ball where you want it.

Oh please. What SE does is equivalent to trying to make baseball harder by writing the registration forms and rules in Esperanto; or not clearly marking the diamond, so you have to be intimately familiar with the field to play properly. Or maybe forcing players to run in rainboots and kilts. Things which make no fucking sense except to ARTIFICIALLY MAKE THINGS SEEM HARDER THAN THEY REALLY ARE. THEY ARE A SIGN OF BAD GAME DESIGN, AND SHOULD BE CORRECTED. Corking your bat would be like using hacks to make claiming easier.

[DakAttack]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Oh please. What SE does is equivalent to trying to make baseball harder by writing the registration forms and rules in Esperanto; or not clearly marking the diamond, so you have to be intimately familiar with the field to play properly. Or maybe forcing players to run in rainboots and kilts. Things which make no fucking sense except to ARTIFICIALLY MAKE THINGS SEEM HARDER THAN THEY REALLY ARE. THEY ARE A SIGN OF BAD GAME DESIGN, AND SHOULD BE CORRECTED. Corking your bat would be like using hacks to make claiming easier.

There isn't a lot you can do to give a game a legitimate degree of difficulty these days. People will always find and use the most efficient strategy they can find, even if it's to the detriment of other players.

Sometimes it seemed as though bosses were basically slot machines with better odds. You'd pull the handle and more than likely you'd win, but sometimes you'd just get a shit spin and have to try again. MMOs in general are a lot like gambling in that respect.

Semicolon Semicolon?

Less semicolon semicolon, more...

My rhyming dictionary has failed me for the last time...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

ARTIFICIALLY MAKE THINGS SEEM HARDER THAN THEY REALLY ARE. THEY ARE A SIGN OF BAD GAME DESIGN, AND SHOULD BE CORRECTED

Putting it in all caps doesn't make you any less incorrect than you were before.

What you find inconvenient and others do not does not make it bad game design. Again, say it with me...

Cross-platform MMO.


All the Windower issue boils down to is this - PC users aren't goat lovers like Mac users, they're just sandy vaginas in general. Whatever they come up with is vastly better than what a developer is doing, yet they're not making and MMO and considering in-game balance and the developer is.