SE Strikes Again! (Obtaining Mythic Weapons)

[Karinya]

Re: SE Strikes Again! (Obtaining Mythic Weapons)

But losing pop sets still isn't the answer.

Has everyone here forgotten jailers already? They were released with the same frustratingly low progression item pop rates so the people who spend all day in the game and have to be the first on their server to get something could be the first on their server to get something that took a ridiculous number of hours to do. And IIRC, there was exactly the same "omg, AV kicked our ass and now we lost all those pop items!" whining. And AV's drops, while nice, aren't even close to mythics.

Come to think of it - you had to *beat* JoL to pop AV, not just have its pop set. Would you like it better if instead of needing a PW pop set he needed a PW drop?


Anyway, a year or so after jailers came out, SE said "ok, the elitists have had their turn" and made the content more accessible to everyone by raising progression item drop rates to 100%. You still had to win just as hard of a fight - but you didn't have to do it over and over again and possibly go back to the beginning of the pop tree and build up again.

They'll do the same thing to ZNM, and then the pop sets won't be a big deal (considering this is goddamn *mythic* we're talking about, not lol6%haste). In the meantime what's-his-name has his bragging rights, which is what he wanted to get by going first without any information on how the fight worked.

(I'm still waiting for SE to decide that people with lives should have some access to the kings and similar mobs...)

[hexx]

Re: SE Strikes Again! (Obtaining Mythic Weapons)

Relic weapons and mythic weapons weren't designed for casual players though, that's the thing. If you play only to play with your friends, that's fine. You're having fun, isn't that good enough? Because relic and mythics exist, doesn't mean that you have to get them. Things like that are specifically designed for people who want a challenge and get rewarded for it at the end. Of course amazing items are difficult to obtain - that's the whole point. If you were handed the relic weapon of your choice as soon as you logged into the game, would it be any fun?

It would be a blast if I had an Aegis or [insert random relic or mythic weapon here] to play with, but the fact is I dont =/ And yes I do have a lot of fun, not having these weapons doesnt take away from the fact that I enjoy this game My point is that SE is a bit hypocritical when saying to not forget "family and friends" and yet make that a requirement when it comes to getting some of the most powerful stuff in the game......and yes having fun is good enough, just wish things were a little fairer........

If you're doing fine with the stuff you have now why complain about not being able to get Mythics/Relics? There is tons of content for casual players who only play for a little bit. Hell you said it yourself that the only thing you do is Nyzul and Dynamis, which means you're pretty much ignoring most of the other content in this game. Relics, and especially Mythics, are rewards for those who have gotten it all to aim for. Mythics even have the added bonus of making sure you do everything possible to do in ToAU, forcing you to *gasp* play the game to get something! Sure parts of it are a grind, but if they weren't people would have already flooded the game with these things. There is a massive difference between the casual player who can't do everything and the hardcore player who has done everything, and Mythics/Relics are the reward for those hardcore players. They don't cause people to play more because those who are actually going after it already play more then most.

My reason for only doing Nyzul and Dynamis is because that is all that really fits my schedule at the time unfortunately =/ used to do sky but my shell fell apart and cant find another so meh..........I dont expect for Relics and Mythics to be EASY to obtain, but at least make it a bit more reasonable, tis all I ask for really. In a way this just adds to the classism that exists in RL. You have the "hardcore" player as you say who has done everything the game has to offer, and the "casual" who plays to have fun. Well, as a casual player, it would be nice to at least have a decent chance at some of those powerful items without having to give up my life for the game.

My two cents there.

[Lmnop]

Re: SE Strikes Again! (Obtaining Mythic Weapons)

Has everyone here forgotten jailers already? They were released with the same frustratingly low progression item pop rates so the people who spend all day in the game and have to be the first on their server to get something could be the first on their server to get something that took a ridiculous number of hours to do. And IIRC, there was exactly the same "omg, AV kicked our ass and now we lost all those pop items!" whining. And AV's drops, while nice, aren't even close to mythics.

Come to think of it - you had to *beat* JoL to pop AV, not just have its pop set. Would you like it better if instead of needing a PW pop set he needed a PW drop?


Anyway, a year or so after jailers came out, SE said "ok, the elitists have had their turn" and made the content more accessible to everyone by raising progression item drop rates to 100%. You still had to win just as hard of a fight - but you didn't have to do it over and over again and possibly go back to the beginning of the pop tree and build up again.

They'll do the same thing to ZNM, and then the pop sets won't be a big deal (considering this is goddamn *mythic* we're talking about, not lol6%haste). In the meantime what's-his-name has his bragging rights, which is what he wanted to get by going first without any information on how the fight worked.

And the changes to make things better were based on thousands of threads just like this one. If we didn't complain, stupid things like this would never get fixed.

Agreed.

[Malacite]

Re: SE Strikes Again! (Obtaining Mythic Weapons)

They'll do the same thing to ZNM, and then the pop sets won't be a big deal (considering this is goddamn *mythic* we're talking about, not lol6%haste). In the meantime what's-his-name has his bragging rights, which is what he wanted to get by going first without any information on how the fight worked.

Except Tanaka himself said they won't be doing this because it's related to the Mythic Quest.


EDIT: Oh sweet Jesus ...


Just when you think SE can't possibly fail any harder they surprise us with an even more epic failure. At least when you complete a relic you get 30 100's back. Jackyl just completed the Burtgang quest and all he got was... wait for it....


3 measely imperial silver coins.

[Malacite]

Re: SE Strikes Again! (Obtaining Mythic Weapons)

Woo MORE FAIL!

Turns out the DMG to MP on Tizona is % based rather than a straight conversion, making the fucking thing totally pointless. It apparently averages out to roughly having a constant (RDM) Refresh. May as well try for a Hofud instead. I mean if you love BLU to death and really want it sure but... yeesh.

Which shall be the next weapon to fail I wonder?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: SE Strikes Again! (Obtaining Mythic Weapons)

So, again, something fails because its not completely broken to your liking?

If BLU got straight conversion, they'd have a near-bottomless pool of MP and never need to be refreshed.

Not to mention, there's plenty of ways to get refresh.

Set spell Traits, Sanction/Sigil Refresh, Mirage Jubbah... That's 3 MP a tick right there before we factor in things like Ballad, refresh or Aspir Samba. They have a snowball's chance of getting Evoker's Roll, being on the frontline and all, but plenty of refresh to grab elsewhere. Oh and Conserve MP set spell trait and MP Drainkiss.

I have to wonder what kind of fuck-up a BLU would have to be not to have at least, well, all of those items/set spells/set traits if he was going after the Tizona anyway. Probably the same kind of fuck-up that didn't have his sea spells yet.

In the meantime what's-his-name has his bragging rights, which is what he wanted to get by going first without any information on how the fight worked.

lolMap

[Aksannyi]

Re: SE Strikes Again! (Obtaining Mythic Weapons)

It's "meh" to be sure, but it could be much worse. Is it worth the cost/effort? Probably not, but still a pretty nice weapon to have if you're a career BLU with nothing else to spend your gil on.

Still 18 weapons we have yet to test out at this point. Hopefully there's at least a few that are worth the time/gil/effort/etc. to get. At any rate, we're killing Gurfurlur tomorrow for those who will need the title eventually.

[Tickmeoff]

Re: SE Strikes Again! (Obtaining Mythic Weapons)

It's "meh" to be sure, but it could be much worse. Is it worth the cost/effort? Probably not, but still a pretty nice weapon to have if you're a career BLU with nothing else to spend your gil on.

Why is it okay that the most difficult and time consuming equipment to obtain in the game is just "meh"? Shouldn't you want something that takes this kind of investment to be a great deal better than "meh"?

It doesn't have to be fuckwin god tier broken, but they should be something more than an excuse to throw gil at because you have nothing better to spend it on.

[Armando]

Re: SE Strikes Again! (Obtaining Mythic Weapons)

Giving a BLU near-infinite MP would probably be more game-breaking than the relic itself.

Why is it okay that the most difficult and time consuming equipment to obtain in the game is just "meh"? Shouldn't you want something that takes this kind of investment to be a great deal better than "meh"?

It doesn't have to be fuckwin god tier broken, but they should be something more than an excuse to throw gil at because you have nothing better to spend it on.

This is an argument that's going to go in circles forever because not everyone agrees on what's "meh."

Has there been any parses of Tizona's lackluster performance yet?

[Aksannyi]

Re: SE Strikes Again! (Obtaining Mythic Weapons)

Some preliminary test info was posted in the BG Relic/Mythic thread, other than that, I don't know.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: SE Strikes Again! (Obtaining Mythic Weapons)

Preliminary.
Test Info.
BG Thread.

See, what I dislike about BG the most isn't the people who work on and test things out, but the people like Mal here who take a sliver of whatever data they found there and blow it way out of context.

All mythics "occasionally attack twice" then the MP conversion is going to happen often enough.

The reason it seems "meh" to some of you is that you're spoiled on Joytoys and Aspir Samba. You can get a constant effect of that just with Aspir Samba, as I'm sure a BLU could.

But given that a DNC may not always be around, BLUs don't commonly sub DNC outside of soloing (if that) and BLU has never had a multi-hit weapon at all and tons of multi-hit spells... doesn't "meh" seem adequate enough?

I remember back when BLU was all the rage and people were bitching they couldn't use a Ridill. Jesus, how broken would that be?

[ShepardG]

Re: SE Strikes Again! (Obtaining Mythic Weapons)

I will admit I couldn't keep focus through all 6 pages, but I agree for the most part about, how crappy it would be to lose your pop set, and how ...sadistic it is to collect and farm and spend so much Gil and then go into a battle and be setback 8 months of farming and camping and toiling. If that's your thing, that's your thing, I understand and for most people, it's not. This causes Mythic/Relic weapons to be rare ultra pieces that hardly anyone has.

I had a thought/idea about how if I worked for SE, what I would do when it came to elite pieces of gear.

Expansion packs.

So you just started playing and you decided to take \Insert Job here/ all the way to 75. 6 months later, you've lvl'd your subs, your job is geared up fairly well, and now you want a \insert uber weapon/armor/.

Since your job is at 75 (at the time of this purchase) you can now spend $12.95 and purchase the content to quest your weapon/armor. (and when I say armor I mean a full 5 piece set)

You would initiate it at an NPC (could vary which one) and they would send you all over the world, from temple of ugalephia(sp) to the northlands, to the promovyian aquaducts, etc. Since you've purchased a 300-400 MB "patch" this would open up all kinds of new CS's and new NM's and also new NPC's. You would have to collect certain items from certain mobs and I would make it so none of the NM's would need anything more than a full party.
Total time once you started the process based on 4-5 hours a day: 2ish Months. At the End would be something like a Maat fight you would perform solo, after all, you paid for it, it's your kenkonken.

I mean they can add in all this new content every 4 months, why not something like this. Paid-for instances. They could utilize BC's all over the world and make it so only you viewed the CS's since other's in your party might not have the content. I can't see this being such a bad idea. Maybe impossible with the way the game is structured, but It just seems like something that would bring ffxi into the current day and age of MMO's.

Hell, I'd love to pay 12.95 and have the chance to realistically quest my excalibur. instead of just grinding dynamis for half a year and spending the rest of my time farming to pay for the runs...

Hell your could keep all the salvage gear and all the dynamis gear and just do it for the weapons.

hell have each "expansion pack" written by one author, each different.

I know this is way off topic, but if I payed 13 bucks and 3/4's of the way through I died on one of the fight's with a NM, I'd have to wait 3 RL days to try again. I wouldn't have to spend 8 more RL months to get a chance at getting my ass handed to me when I got to fight my NM for the 2nd time.

This may seem like a bit of a cop-out. Their ment to be challenging for a reason. But I bet anyone reading this, that all the people who slaved through Dynamis to get a relic, or spent all their time getting Usukanes set 5/5, or saving up how ever many alexandrites to get their mythic, felt remorse at having spent so much time for such a little bit of 0's and 1's.

I mean, can you imagine getting excalibur and having everyone in your LS cheer you on, and then the next day you wake up in real life, you log on and you have your excalibur, and you go to a merit party. There's nobody cheering you on. You got it, good job...now what? get another one? go lvl another job? I mean...it's a status symbol? but status at what cost? I love ffxi, and I love playing with real life people and spending time exploring and winning battles, but i can't see how it's worth it.

I fully feel that in this game, it's not about the ending, it's about the journey. I feel that way about my RL also. Grinding for 8 months in dynamis isn't an adventure. It's a chore. It's not a game, it's not a quest, and it isn't fun. Nobody who has a relic/mythic can say it was fun to farm that crap to get it. I see General, on phoenix server, fishing on the ship from selbina to mhaura, wearing his excalibur and his aegis and I just can't fathom if the chore of getting those pieces was worth his time. I mean...he's back on the boat fishing...same as me...

I apologize for the wall of text, I just have always had a serious grevience with the way SE and for that fact most all MMO's handle it's players....I guess I'll never understand.

[Ziero]

Re: SE Strikes Again! (Obtaining Mythic Weapons)

I had a thought/idea about how if I worked for SE, what I would do when it came to elite pieces of gear.

Expansion packs.

So you just started playing and you decided to take Insert Job here/ all the way to 75. 6 months later, you've lvl'd your subs, your job is geared up fairly well, and now you want a insert uber weapon/armor/.

Since your job is at 75 (at the time of this purchase) you can now spend $12.95 and purchase the content to quest your weapon/armor. (and when I say armor I mean a full 5 piece set)

....that is a horrible idea. Did you honestly sit there and think "Hmmm, SE should add a quest line for the ultimate armor and weapons that's done exactly like the Mythic weapons only easier....and people should have to pay 13 bucks for every job they want to do it on! Brilliant!"

I mean, can you imagine getting excalibur and having everyone in your LS cheer you on, and then the next day you wake up in real life, you log on and you have your excalibur, and you go to a merit party. There's nobody cheering you on. You got it, good job...now what? get another one? go lvl another job? I mean...it's a status symbol? but status at what cost? I love ffxi, and I love playing with real life people and spending time exploring and winning battles, but i can't see how it's worth it.

How the hell is getting a relic any different from getting any other high end, rare item? You play the game to get items and you get items while playing the game. Once you have it, it's yours and you can move on to whatever the hell else you want to do.

I fully feel that in this game, it's not about the ending, it's about the journey. I feel that way about my RL also. Grinding for 8 months in dynamis isn't an adventure. It's a chore. It's not a game, it's not a quest, and it isn't fun. Nobody who has a relic/mythic can say it was fun to farm that crap to get it. I see General, on phoenix server, fishing on the ship from selbina to mhaura, wearing his excalibur and his aegis and I just can't fathom if the chore of getting those pieces was worth his time. I mean...he's back on the boat fishing...same as me...

Here's a hint, if you don't want to go through all that trouble to get these weapons...don't do the quest! Those who are willing to go through it and put in the work and effort will get their reward in the end in the form of the most powerful weapons in game. Relics and Mythics aren't for everyone, that's the whole point of their existance. To give those with more dedication and those who are willing to work the hardest a long term goal to strive for. And the massive requirements needed to get them act as a deterent for those who wouldn't even stand a chance to get them. But seeing as their completely optional, they're easy to pass up.

[ShepardG]

Re: SE Strikes Again! (Obtaining Mythic Weapons)

Z,

I just typed like 8 different responses, and ended up erasing them all... lol, none of them,I felt, were decent enough to express what I was trying to convey.

I feel like I understand your response, but I just can't agree. I like MMO's because I can interact with like minded people, and have adventures with them that we all enjoy. I guess it seems to me that people that have or want relics/mythic weapons are playing for themselves, not in a selfish manner so much, as in a "I'm more dedicated to this game than you" manner. Which they clearly are.

FFXI exist's to make SE money, and I've always looked at relic's and mythic's as ways to wrap up their gamer's into a time sink that will make them more money. Why not wrap them up with new quest's to get the item they want so desperatly instead of adding one repetitive quest that dosen't change? I just don't feel like the story of ffxi gained anything from relic or mythic weapons. It's just a slow, slow grind to get an item that has little to no background story (I don't consider 3-4 CS's a decent story)

I just look at the future of MMO's and I see the techniques (such as the grind for a relic/mythic) that are, in a sense, hooks to keep the player "playing and paying" as becoming dated.
Imagine if FFXI had content like a TV show, streaming updates that happen as you play, Items that were added monthly, Missions and quest's that would keep you subscribed but not take all the free time of 8 months to complete.

If your friend joined, you could spend your time with him, catching him up on the content that you've already completed. Grinding would make things easier, but imagine if at 75 Cid asked you to return to valkrum dunes and solve a murder of an NPC. The possiblities are virtually limitless, and would keep people coming back for more.

The best weapon in the game wouldn't be near impossible to aquire, it would be simply a very tough adventure, and not a very tough grind.

There are lot's of Console (and I'm sure PC) games that have already adopted this downloadable content format, Guitar Hero, Oblivion, GTA:IV and they only add to the replay value, instead of making it just another hassle, like the owners of mythic/relic weapons had to go through.

If my opinion bothered you, that was not my intent, I was simply trying to think outside the box. I, along with everyone else in the game that I know, would love to have the best weapon in the game, but not at the cost that the aquisition of said weapon requires.

Those who are willing to go through it and put in the work and effort will get their reward in the end in the form of the most powerful weapons in game.

That's just it, It's supposed to be a fun adventure game, not work and effort. I work hard in real life,so that I can escape to a fantasy relm with my friends and not worry about going to work just to earn another item. I understand that maybe some folks are a glutten for punishment, but I would rather focus on having a good time with friends. Like I said before, I don't understand people who pay to play a game, to work in said game to get an item that has no other use than to increase their damage output inside of said game. I guess I don't understand them because that's not how I am. I'm not trying to insult them, I'm just trying to say that there has to be a better way.


I have gone completly off topic, and into realm's best left to another time and place.

[Clever Ninja]

Re: SE Strikes Again! (Obtaining Mythic Weapons)

Getting a Relic is still hard, it's just nowadays Dynamis has been happening for so long and its so cheap to sponsor now, many shells can afford to partly(or fully in some cases) sponsor someone's Relic. That doesn't make them any easier to get, anyone who unlocked a Relic pre-TAoU can tell you that.

That said, this is not the same thing as Hofud. For one, Hofud is an MP drain, this is straight damage conversion, so it should work on every mob, which is nice as BLU against stuff we can't MP Drainkiss/Magic Hammer makes us have to conserve more MP. The fact that it works out to 3mp/tick is very nice, that plus Auto Refresh and Relic Body when you're Idle = 5mp/tick, plus Sanction/Sigil = 6mp/tick. We're not even accounting for player buffs yet, so that's nothing to scoff at, I don't care what you say. Compare it to Perdu Hanger, which is what most BLU's will main hand, and it's definitely an upgrade.

Like what happened when Jacky unlocked Burtgang, people are just butthurt because they didn't really believe SE when they said Relics > Mythics. Frankly this is, IMO, the best main hand weapon for BLU if you're ever gonna melee anything. Probably not worth all the effort but hey, Alex are dirt cheap now so it wouldn't hurt the wallet as much. That and BLU have no Relic alternative.