1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

[jenova_9]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

ya give nin a windmill shuriken or something :p

they really should have some Throw perk for ninja ranged weapons that 100% hits and does damage that rivals Ranger ranged weapons. same for their elemental damage stuff.

[Armando]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

ya give nin a windmill shuriken or something :p

they really should have some Throw perk for ninja ranged weapons that 100% hits and does damage that rivals Ranger ranged weapons. same for their elemental damage stuff.

Fuma Shuriken - FFXIclopedia - a Wikia Gaming wiki

Kinda funny the Lead man on the game says Nin is a fine tank. An that we need to rely on the party and other jobs to help us out. That right there cracks me up...

THF relies on party members' cooperation to use its fullest potential too.

Besides, I find it laughable to suggest that NIN wouldn't be broken if it could hold hate just fine on its own.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

People who think tanking is a solo effort don't know what tanking is. But then, that's par for course with the Final Fantasy XI community, really, they never really knew what tanking was.

[Malacite]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

You say AF+1 is not a buff, but then you say the +1 is everything the NQ version should have been.

Either that is a buff or its not a buff, please make up your damn mind. It is CLEARLY a buff.

Or you could learn to read between the lines and deduce that I was implying the +1's stats are what should have been on the original (scaled down of course)

[Akashimo]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

People who think tanking is a solo effort don't know what tanking is. But then, that's par for course with the Final Fantasy XI community, really, they never really knew what tanking was.

Tank grabs hate, support gives buffs, dd tries to hold back at the start, TA ws and collab to help maintain the balance, is it that hard?

[Karinya]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

Wow thats a bold statement. I guess every endgame shell I am part of uses PLD/NIN as an imitation NIN, while our NIN's are geared for optimal DD. I mean because:

Flash, Sentinel, Cover, Shield Bash can't keep up with provoke from a NIN/WAR.

Nope, it sure can't. Three of those abilities are on 5 MINUTE timers.

Thanks But I would rather deal with something that has +enmity gear out the wazoo then a NIN with none.PLD>NIN in nearly every aspect of tanking, If it can't hold hate natively, Its not a teir 1 tank.

Get better NINs. Seriously, they don't have ANY +enmity gear? (And btw, WAR has more enmity gear than PLD, do you consider it a tier 1 tank?)

If it takes damage when attacked, it's not a tier 1 tank. That's the reality of tanking for the last several years. That's why PLD is unwelcome in most content and WAR is accepted as a DD only.

There's only 2 aspects of tanking. Holding hate and surviving without draining the healers dry. NIN are good enough at the first, and way better at the second (except maybe during Invincible on you, or Hundred Fists on the mob). Being better than good enough at hate holding doesn't help.

[MrMageo]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

I dont know what game youve been playing but any mob that constantly spams AoE means mr ninja gets to hide behind his paper mache def, Ninja's eat up alot more of my MP than PLD's do, normally PLD's get a nice little 40 MP spell called refresh from me and are pretty well self contained after that for the majority of the fight.

Id say there Is on onus for a Tank, and that is the ability to keep the monsters attention focused on him, If I drain my MP dry and the party is still all alive, then the tank has done his job.

Your concept of tank has clearly been swept up in the NIN swarm of the post RoZ era (back when NIN was a better tank because PLD didnt have all his neat little tricks.)

I would rather have a tank buffed with defense gear than evaision gear anyday because 90% of the mobs where tanking really comes into question (endgame) your ninja isnt evading anyway.

PLD>NIN in party survival hands down, that is why PLD's are usually always to get the first handout of relic weapons from dyna shells, That is why PLD's are called on to kite mobs, That is why PLD's /NIN because then they get to use the only thing ninja has over them (shadows) just as well as a ninja. So lets re examine what you have considered with PLD/NIN (the endgame tank)

1. PLD/NIN is damn good at holding hate
2. PLD/NIN is just as good as ninja at evading damage

Not to mention the 300-500 MP most PLD's has is 300-500 MP i dont need to use. Most PLD's also have a nice little ability that allows them to replenish MP and wow *gasp* continue to cure themselves saving me more MP.


As for Warrior being a Tank, I consider it a Teir 1 tank as well, its just not many people use it as this function. The ability to control hate is here again with this job, and guess what *gasp* they can use shadows to avoid damage as well.

The reality of tanking is not, not taking damage, it is keeping the other more squishy jobs from getting hit. If you have the means to do that naturally you are a teir 1 tank, if you can't do it on your own, your a teir 2 tank.

[Ziero]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

Anyway, my complaint about them adding mobs that "don't need to be tanked" is this: it feeds meleeburn, where tanking doesn't happen anyway and everyone who grabs hate can take it, without helping make traditional parties more viable. Furthermore, I see no way that parties fighting these mobs that supposedly don't need tanks would have any place for a black mage; it's never been helpful for squishy mobs, or good at taking hits when hate bounces. I mean, unless nukes directed at them generate half normal enmity while still being full-strength or something, I don't see what good this does -- unless you consider bending over for meleeburn "good". -- Pteryx

Uh, I think that's their intentions. See, in this question, the main problem was the lack of jobs able to effectively tank EXP mobs. With no tank you have no traditional party. Which in the end is the biggest flaw with those kinds of parties because they relied on very specific jobs to do anything. With mobs that "don't need tanks" you can have a wider variety of classes gaining Exp at a decent speed.

While I'll admit the difference between the Exp gained from traditional parties and burn PTs is completely imbalanced, the fact that burn PTs don't need one of two specific jobs would still make them the prefered form of EXP.

And Blm are the LAST job that needs a tank. They're one of the best soloers in the game for EXP and one of the jobs that pioneered burn parties.

Wow thats a bold statement. I guess every endgame shell I am part of uses PLD/NIN as an imitation NIN, while our NIN's are geared for optimal DD. I mean because:

Flash, Sentinel, Cover, Shield Bash can't keep up with provoke from a NIN/WAR.

Thanks But I would rather deal with something that has +enmity gear out the wazoo then a NIN with none.PLD>NIN in nearly every aspect of tanking, If it can't hold hate natively, Its not a teir 1 tank.

Even tho they said they werent planing on gear too increase tankability of a job, I think some type of gear for DRK that increases DEF and VIT could have it being a pretty damn good tank.

I love how you compare Pld/Nin with Nin/War when /Drk is the better sub for Nin at endgame tanking. /War sub is pretty much outdated and voke is all but useless. A Nin/Drk can actually build hate faster then a Pld/Nin on most mobs, but Pld/Nin can sustain that hate longer.

As for Set bonuses, to me it wasn't that SE was saying that there were limited amount of stats each armor could possess, but that there were limited number of Set bonuses they could add to armor. Can you think of 20 unique set bonuses to add to the game that wouldn't completely outdate every other piece of armor?

And with the WotG sets, the idea of incremental bonuses are great but the crappy amount you get from each piece makes it a waste to use compared to older items (I get more ATT from a single piece of armor then I would from the entire Fourth set including bonus). If you could get +4 or +5 from each additional piece added then it'd be worth using more of those pieces, but as most of that set is easily replaced. Though parts of the Cobra set and IR sets are great for some jobs, that has nothing to do with thier set Bonus but the basic stats on the gear itself. Set bonuses are great if they can outweigh the basic stat boost of mix-and-matched armor. Which very few sets can actually do.

[Malacite]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

And with the WotG sets, the idea of incremental bonuses are great but the crappy amount you get from each piece makes it a waste to use compared to older items (I get more ATT from a single piece of armor then I would from the entire Fourth set including bonus). If you could get +4 or +5 from each additional piece added then it'd be worth using more of those pieces, but as most of that set is easily replaced. Though parts of the Cobra set and IR sets are great for some jobs, that has nothing to do with thier set Bonus but the basic stats on the gear itself. Set bonuses are great if they can outweigh the basic stat boost of mix-and-matched armor. Which very few sets can actually do.

Yeah no kidding. This is another area where Blizzard is killing SE thanks to all their experience with this sort of thing in Diablo II. I'm serious when I say SE could a hell of a lot from Blizzard and their games. (And that's all, this is NOT a WoW Vs FFXI war ¬_¬ but more of an "SE is still learning" argument. That's IMO the big reason this game isn't as huge as it could have been. Hell they admitted themselves they don't get why the game has seen so much success!!)

[eticket109]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

I haven't seen you say a single positive thing about the game in a long time. It seems to keep disappointing you and you keep handing them money. Even the most hardened of us accept the progress that SE is making or trying to make. You seem more like the father that looks at his child with scorn for that lone B on the report card. Ease up a bit, find what you still enjoy in the game and take pleasure in it.

[Taskmage]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

I would rather have a tank buffed with defense gear than evaision gear anyday because 90% of the mobs where tanking really comes into question (endgame) your ninja isnt evading anyway.

90% of the mobs where tanking comes into question can crit you for 500+ regardless of what your defense stat is. It's like you're comparing oil lamps to candles for lighting your home when the rest of the world is using light bulbs.

As for Warrior being a Tank, I consider it a Teir 1 tank as well, its just not many people use it as this function. The ability to control hate is here again with this job, and guess what *gasp* they can use shadows to avoid damage as well.

war's only native hate tool is provoke which is just laughable in a long fight. I can build enough enmity as a DD in 3 minute fight in an experience party to keep hate through Provoke. How do you expect to subsist on that in a 30, 60, 90 minute HNM fight? Compensate with damage? Riiiight. Good luck keeping your damage output on par with the dedicated DDs when shadow casting is chewing up your TP time and anything that gets past shadows drains your CE pool dry. Speaking of getting past shadows, every other endgame tank has a contingency plan for shadows going down. war/nin doesn't have the interrupt protection of shield mastery, fast cast, or A- rank ninjutsu skill. A war/nin would be shredded trying to get shadows back up the first time a double attack finished Ni.

Hell, by this logic a blm/nin is a tier 1 tank. They can cement hate a heck of a lot better than a war, they can *gasp* use shadows to avoid damage and at least they've got stun to get them through a tight situation. They can even *gasp* self-cure with drain. Omg I have to go level this new tank job just as soon as I can stop gasping. -.-

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

Malacite, if you're going to praise Blizzard for something, please avoid using a totally broken peer-to-peer game like the dupefest that was Diabolo II.

Also, Taskmage, zooming right to the endgame argument against WAR tanking is exactly why no one gives it a chance at the levels it does work. Any yet, WAR tanking at endgame isn't completely unheard of for one particular extended fight - Tiamat. And there are plenty of events a WAR could viably tank at endgame, they're not going to tank it all but the places they could are constantly shot down by this shallow kind of thinking.

OK, so WAR isn't preferred for tanking HNM, Ultima/Omega and gods, big goddamn whoop. That's not the only fights you tank.

Worse is this kind of thinking gives all the nublet WARs out there the excuse they need not to have tanking builds ready.

lolTiers. If you're gonna weigh in on why WARs shouldn't tank, is it any surprise others weigh in on why RDMs shouldn't melee?

[Taskmage]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

I believe this argument was endgame focused long before I came to it.

Yes of course war is a viable tank for exp grind. It'd be viable for a lot longer than the 30 levels or so people normally give it if most of the playerbase had a clue how to recast shadows.

Any yet, WAR tanking at endgame isn't completely unheard of for one particular extended fight - Tiamat.

I can't say lolTiamat because I've never fought it but if a whm tanked Tiamat then I don't think bringing that fight up as a measure of a job's tanking ability is really very valid.

Hey, don't bring me into the melee rdm thing. I didn't say wars couldn't tank, I just highlighted how Mageo seems to have no idea what makes a tank. And yes, loltiers.

Any job's ability to do any task is dependant on the properties of the fight and the team they're working with. This applies just as much to pld and nin as anything else.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

Fuma Shuriken - FFXIclopedia - a Wikia Gaming wiki

Here's me thinking you didn't have a sense of humour.

[Feenicks]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

Check out SMN. It's all useless, more or less.

Sorry from quoting the previous page, but SMN AF isn't completely useless. The body and hands are worthless but the horn is good for subbing into your Summoning Magic macro for Elemental Siphon/Ward Pacts, and the feet and legs give Accuracy and Evasion bonuses to your avatars. The Avatar: Enmity- effects aren't anything to worry about, it's only a couple of points and with the rest of the mage gear you end up wearing as a SMN you always end up with less enmity than your avatar anyway.