BG is infected

[Raydeus]

Re: BG is infected

I see. So it's people's fault when they get mugged on the street because they don't have 5 bodyguards to protect them? And we are talking about places that are supposed to be safe here, not some obscure "enter at your own risk" kind of place.

In other words being weak makes it your fault. Yeah... screw that.

[Akashimo]

Re: BG is infected

weak makes it your fault.

And you wonder why we can sue.

[Feba]

Re: BG is infected

Nope. What RMT do is wrong.

However, THIS ENTIRE WORLD IS WRONG. It's fucking obvious, and we're warned to not trust strangers for at least as long as we're able to speak. Is the attacker in the right for taking advantage of the stupid? Of course not. Does the victim deserve pity for doing things which are clearly and obviously stupid and unsafe? Also of course not.

[Ellipses]

Re: BG is infected

Fault, schmault. Shit's broken. Be careful.

[Feba]

Re: BG is infected

So it's people's fault when they get mugged on the street because they don't have 5 bodyguards to protect them?

Where the bloody fuck did you get the idea that the internet was supposed to be safe?

And no, that's an unreasonable request. We're not talking about physical injury, we're talking about theft. And is it reasonable to say "it's your fault" to someone who leaves their door wide open, when the obvious thing to do would be to lock it? Yes.

EDIT: And beyond that, we're not talking about unreasonable safety measures. Running a browser appliance, virtual machine, or second computer is NOT unreasonably intrusive or expensive (first two options are free, third can be done under $100); bodyguards are.

[Raydeus]

Re: BG is infected

One thing has nothing to do with the other, just because the world/internet isn't a safe place doesn't make it your fault when someone steals from you regardless of the situation.

People take (or don't) the security measures they can because the world is like it is. But that doesn't make it ok for it to happen and doesn't make it your fault for being weak. It's because people accepts it just because it happens that the world is as screwed up as it is now.


"Hey the neighbor had his car stolen, maybe we should try to organize a defense so it never happens again"

"Nah, he didn't have an alarm set on his car, it's his fault it got stolen, it happens"


Edit >

EDIT: And beyond that, we're not talking about unreasonable safety measures. Running a browser appliance, virtual machine, or second computer is NOT unreasonably intrusive or expensive (first two options are free, third can be done under $100); bodyguards are.

Yeah it's easy, but a lot of people out there don't know about it, they should make more research to try to prevent stuff like this happening as much as possible. But that still doesn't make it their fault if someone plants a bug in their computer exploiting a vulnerability in their system.

[Mhurron]

Re: BG is infected

The internet is a seedy place, it is the same as the wrong side of the tracks. It's a part of the city that you don't go into unless you're prepared to handle the consequences.

they should make more research to try to prevent stuff like this happening as much as possible

There's no technical solution to stupid.

Your car analogy is closer to:

"Hey the neighbor had his car stolen, maybe we should try to organize a defense so it never happens again"

"Why? It won't make him start locking his car."

[Feba]

Re: BG is infected

regardless of the situation.

Yep.

However, this is hardly saying that everyone that gets stolen from is to blame.

Your analogy doesn't hold up. An alarm does not stop people from stealing a car.

This is more like saying "Well of course your car is going to get stolen if you leave the keys in the ignition.". Does that make the theft OK? Nope. But YOU ARE AN IDIOT IF YOU LEAVE THE KEYS IN THE IGNITION WHEN YOU LEAVE YOUR CAR. It's common sense.

but a lot of people out there don't know about it,

That's their own fault. It is common knowledge that the internet is not safe. It is also common knowledge how to secure your computer (and even if it weren't, it's common knowledge that you can use a wonderful site called google to find out how)

Raydeus, we get your point. The people who are stealing are criminals, and they're the ones doing wrong. That doesn't change the fact that common sense would tell you to lock the door, wear a condom, and keep your security patches up to date. Your failure to do these things does not validate the crime, but it does place the fault on you.

Have you ever seen the show "To Catch a Thief"? 80% of the time, they're able to get into a house without needing to do any damage. They're former burglars-- they use their old tactics. They go after the low hanging fruit. If you don't use basic security measures, you are making yourself a target.

[Mog]

Re: BG is infected

I'd have to agree with Feba on this one. As the saying goes, prevention is the best medicine.

While it's wrong for people to be stealing accounts, it's also wrong for people not taking countermeasures to prevent things like this happening. The same goes for people who get mugged in dark alleys. While it's wrong that they get mugged, it also makes me wonder why they're silly enough to be walking in a dark place so late at night in the first place.

The same goes for the internet. As long as you make a decent effort to protect yourself, then hopefully nothing bad will happen. However, if you're somebody that goes to every website imaginable and doesn't update your computer...then shame on you. Maybe there will be a lesson learned when there are viruses on the computer.

[Feba]

Re: BG is infected

prevention is the best medicine.

Actually, laughter is the best medicine. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, though.

I'd say the dark alleyway is a bad analogy-- there's not really much you can do to make yourself safer in that situation. I mean, maybe in 50 years we can be like "why the SHIT didn't you have your personal shield generator on you, Johxn?", but nowadays there are situations where you might have good reason to walk down a dark alleyway. And again, we're dealing with theft of property through negligence; NOT forceful robbery or being directly attacked.

[Mog]

Re: BG is infected

Actually, laughter is the best medicine. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, though.

Damn you google!! Giving me bad quotes.

[Raydeus]

Re: BG is infected

Leaving your keys in the ignition and the doors unlocked would be like posting your POL ID and password, getting a bug installed in your computer without your knowledge or consent would be more like them picking the lock and hot wiring your car to steal it.

There is a huge difference between not taking "enough" steps to prevent a crime and being at fault for it happening to you. If you can't see that then there isn't much else I can say about it.

[Feba]

Re: BG is infected

Leaving your keys in the ignition and the doors unlocked would be like posting your POL ID and password,

no, that would be like leaving the keys in the ignition and shouting "HAY! DOES ANYBODY WANT A FREE CAR? I HAVE ONE RIGHT HERE."

Perhaps you don't FEEL like not having your computer properly secured is as asinine and idiotic. Perhaps you don't FEEL like you're leaving the door wide open for someone to waltz in with no effort. But that's exactly what you're doing.

Surfing the internet without having keeping your anti-malware programs and other software up to date is no different from leaving your car unlocked. You might not realize how easy it is for someone to open the door, get in, and do whatever they please with what they find in your car, but that is how it is.

[Raydeus]

Re: BG is infected

Not much else I can say about it really.

[Feba]

Re: BG is infected

There wasn't really much you could say period. "It's not always the victim's fault" is a good point; it's just not valid in this situation.